Guys, I think I will leave this thread now. When I wrote the book, I knew I would have a very hard time changing the understanding of what is to happen. There is a need for apparition devotees to balance their beliefs with the teaching of the authentic magisterium. I hope you read it with an open mind. Several have mentioned they dont seem to understand what I am getting at. Let me put is very simply. The era of peace in the spiritual millennium theory is being put in the wrong place. The popes have said the Church will be constantly suffering until the end of the world, they have said there will be no era of peace before Jesus comes to judge the living and the dead. The true era of peace comes after the last judment when heaven will come down to earth and transform this world into a new one-one that never ends. The Catechism states "The Antichrist's deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment." Read chapter 10 of my book and see how scathing Ratzinger is about chiliasm and other millennial theories. I think me continuing this thread will not be helpful, because I am aware that no matter what quotes I give, the goalposts get moved. If the CDF says Vassula was in error because she claimed an era of peace within history then it means just that- its a doctrinal error that an era of peace will come in history. It cannot be taken in any other way. Its a simple statement. To deny its very simple meaning suggests an unwillingness to face the truth-even if it means in humility reviewing a previous held opinion.
I have been trying to follow what was happening here. But obviously I am just not smart enough to keep up. I was getting crosseyed. But it seems to be that Stephen has written a book in which he would like everyone to read, and there have been some who don't agree in some of what he is prophesying. I was interested because Stephen said his writtings go with church approved, but then someone pointed out something that went against church doctrine. We all like to think (me included) we can visualise the end times. We all see it different. We are probably ALL wrong. I don't know why we (me included) want to know what will exactly happen in the end. It must be human nature. But I think if we were more like children and didn't worry about such things, we would be better off. Remember what Mary said at Cana? "Do what ever He tells you." "Jesus, I trust in You."
...I know...sounds easy enough. Doesn't it? People receive different gifts. Mine fell into the area of the "head", or the intellectual, and maybe it sometimes helps in efforts of explanation or instruction. But while my heart is sensitive and oriented toward loving others, actions of my will (in areas of practicing my faith and prayer life) always seem to begin with the "head" and must then make that journey to the "heart". Maybe an imbalance of reason and faith (with too much "reason").... I wish my faith had always been in action, with its roots in trust of God, as a childlike faith (which is what Jesus told us our faith should be like). I'm getting there, and He humbles me in ways that help. Since I was a about 17, I was in search of the answers: Why are we here? How did we get here, in this state of being? Where are we going/What is our destiny? Why do we need a Redeemer? And what is the Truth of His revelation and His Church, then? I thank God that our faith is a reasonable faith, with extensive historical facts and eyewitnesses, and recognizably contains the fullness of Truth. I also thank God, and my parents and grandparents, for being born into the Catholic Church (because if not, it may have taken me half my life to find it....like Scott Hahn and others did).
Oh yes. How often do I feel greatful for being born into the faith. Sometimes, when I look at those who have such a hate for Christians, I remind myself.....What if I was born in a home like that? I probably would be the same. How will Jesus judge? Maybe He will be more compassionate to those who knew no better. But us, the ones born into the faith will probably be judged harder, and fair enough. Jon, I am not so smart. But I have found this a great blessing. I don't question what Jesus says at all. I might question what He means, but I trust His words. But not being very smart can lead you on the wrong path, so this is why I like to stay close to Jesus' words.
I didn't want Stephen to freely reveal the entire book he was promoting here. Just a couple more proofs of clear church teaching. That's all.
Fr. Mark Bozada – A Future Time of Great Conversion We Must “Thirst” Now For the Lord! My Dear People, When the Lord poured out a spirit of “grace and petitions” upon the house of David, He was doing two things. First, He was strengthening Israel’s hunger for Him. Secondly, He was opening Israel’s heart to His Divine Mercy and Love. That is the petition part. King David prefigures the Christ. Zechariah uses the image of the “son” being thrust through (sacrificed) preparing Israel for the Crucifixion, and have the choice to “repent” of their sin, or “reject” the One who was thrust through for our sins. The prophets says their will be a future time of great conversion when mankind will see the great love God has for us in His Son Jesus Christ on the Cross. Only believers will live on. All will be purified of their sin and uncleanliness. So we must “thirst” now, for the Lord Himself. He will satisfy our hunger and thirst. Come to the living waters! Entrusting you to the care of Our Lady, Fr. Mark Bozada May we learn to deny our wants a little more, so that we can more fully follow our Lord’s example of charity to others.
Hey Mark, I havent gone anywhere. I just thought it better to let silence reign for a while. I very much appreciate what you have written here. We are all pilgrims searching for the truth and at the end of the day that is the most important thing. My angle on this, is that the Holy Spirit has given us a precious treasure in papal prophetic teaching all the while Our Lady's apparitions have been occurring in the past 2 centuries, and there is a reason for this which is gradually becoming more apparent. Certainly no need to apologize!
Mark and Steve, I must admit I got rather lost in it all. I would love it if you could both come up with an understanding of what is to come. Have either of you ever considered doing this by just using church doctrine, gospel and only church approved prophets/seers? If this can happen, I reckon it would be worth reading.
This is what I had thought, but then it was said you said something which was against Church doctrine. Did you, or not? Obiedence is so important. It is because of disobedience to the church which has caused so much confussion. Mark, correct me if I am wrong. But I think you were going with what the church approved, but you ran into problems when using the Garabandal prophecies as well. Is that right or wrong?
So I couldn't find if you posted the view you found to be congruent with the approved private revelation and the successive popes of the modern era, at least in summary form. It seems the one major issue with some of the beliefs (like the Mark Mallett theory) that you point out is that some try to separate Jesus Christ return into a second and a third coming, with peace in between: 2nd = (elect gathering, for the purposes of a somewhat millenial reign of Christ through His purified Church and His Holy Spirit, but not in person, in glory or judgment...I think that is what they are saying) ...peace-peace-peace... 3rd = (in glory and judgement) I don't know how many variations there are to that "era of peace" theory, but the first issue I think I understand you are pointing out is that their version of the 2nd coming is absent of the judgement and of the return in glory of Christ (right?). So, if so, in the eschatology you understand to be correct, what is the nature of the 2nd coming that is not in error, and is there a time period following that return where there is existence in a renewed creation (with the earth and us restored to pre-fall condition)? Or is there an immediate transition to an eternity as spiritual beings in heaven (outside of time and space)?
What is it about Garabandal that causes the problem? The Warning? (As some Divine manifestation of Christ in His Mercy that is somehow disobedient with procalimed church doctrine on eschatology because it equates to some dangerous, non-judgement idea of a return of Christ?) Also, how is Fatima reconciled and the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart...And the era of peace?
Jane, first, there is no theological error in my book. Its got an imprimatur from the only Bishop in England with a Phd in Theology. I think you have got wires crossed somewhere. Also Garabandal has nothing to do with what I was writing about. What I have written in Heralds of the Second Coming does not mean these apparitions would have to be ruled out-definitely not. Let me try and clarify things in as simple a way as possible. In the teachings of the pope-and the constant tradition of the Church, councils etc, we have this sequence of events: History continues from Pentecost when the end times formally began. Throughout history we have evil times which are precursors of the final unleashing of evil. This is what the Book of Revelation shows. The popes and theologians including Balthasar teach that Revelation cannot be read as a series of events in chronological order. As the world comes closer to the end evil increases, a great apostasy comes-meanwhile the Gospel continues to spread to a universal level (Pope Paul VI and John Paul II have already stated it has spread to a universal level). At some point during this age of apostasy the Antichrist will come- a man who has been prefigured by other antichrists throughout history- Nero, Hitler, Stalin etc. The Antichrist forms the final persecution of the Church.This lasts 3 and a half years at the end of which Jesus returns in his glorious body to destroy the Antichirst (as told by St Paul in 2 Thess). (The conversion of the jews also occurs very close the end) Immediately after this, the last judgment takes place when all the dead-good or bad rise again.Also at this same time the world is made new again, in fact the entire universe. This is the new heaven and new earth. The new Jerusalem comes down from heaven as foretold at the end of the Book of Revelation. The Catechism explains "After the universal judgment, the righteous will reign for ever with Christ, glorified in body and soul. the universe itself will be renewed: The Church . . . will receive her perfection only in the glory of heaven, when will come the time of the renewal of all things. At that time, together with the human race, the universe itself, which is so closely related to man and which attains its destiny through him, will be perfectly re-established in Christ. Sacred Scripture calls this mysterious renewal, which will transform humanity and the world, "new heavens and a new earth."630 It will be the definitive realization of God's plan to bring under a single head "all things in [Christ], things in heaven and things on earth."631(Eph 1 :10) 1044 In this new universe, the heavenly Jerusalem, God will have his dwelling among men.632 "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away" (1042-1043) Pope Benedict XVI in his Apostolic Letter to the Middle East published last September said "The urgency of the present hour and the injustice of so many tragic situations invite us to reread the First Letter of Peter and to join in bearing witness to Christ who died and rose again. This “togetherness”, this communion willed by our Lord and God, is needed now more than ever. Let us put aside all that could be cause for discontent, however justifiable, in order to concentrate unanimously on the one thing necessary: the goal of uniting the whole of humanity and the entire universe in God’s only Son (Eph 1:10)" Notice how Eph 1:10 is referred to in both these passages. This is the era of peace and it will never end. There is no trace in papal writings of an era before the last judgment.As far as the second coming is concerned it always means the last judgment. To change its meaning to suit another interpretation is totally wrong -on that basis we are no different to protestants who interpret scripture as they wish .Why not then change the meaning of the Holy Eucharist? In terms of the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary v the Final coming-in the writings of the popes they have the same meaning. Both inaugurate the coming of the Kingdom of God as prayed for in the Our Father. As the compendium of the Catechism states clearly:" The Compendium of the Catechism states in the section devoted to the Our Father :What does the Church ask for when she prays “Thy Kingdom come”?The Church prays for the final coming of the Kingdom of God through Christ’s return in glory (590) And no 134 is How will the coming of the Lord in glory happen?After the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world the glorious coming of Christ will take place. Then will come the definitive triumph of God in the parousia and the Last Judgment. Thus the Kingdom of God will be realized." For those who believe in Medjugorje, it is worth pondering why Mirjana has said she is not allowed to explain the meaning of the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart,and in Fatima Our Lady did not either. only the popes (Pius XII, John Paul II and Benedict XVI has stated what it means. I hope this makes things clearer!
Stephen, you have gone to so much effort. When we believe in something we do this. When I asked "but then it was said you said something which was against Church doctrine. Did you, or not?" I hope it didn't come out disrespectful. I was just asking a straight out question, to allow you to give a straight answer. And you did. Thankyou. What you just posted, I believe alot of what you said. Some things I don't know about, but it isn't because of your interpretation, it's because of my limited knowledge. I will buy your book. and I will read it with an open mind.
Very beautiful ! I love Louisa Piccaretta's books on Divine Will and this totally seems like this is what our Lord is referring to . I do believe however that we will 'get help' with the illumination of conscience that is coming that Faustina spoke about. Living in our Lord's Divine Will is the fulfillment of the New Jerusalem coming down from Heaven...then the Chastisement is the purification of the Earth from evil. One question. Where does the Eucharistic Reign of Jesus come in ? I didn't know Mirjana is not allowed to explain the meaning of the Triumph...very interesting indeed! Thank you!
Hi MS7 , Eucharistic reign? I think this is symbolic language of the wedding banquet of heaven (again fitting my argument that all prophecy in this era leads to the final coming). The closest thing I have ever seen in a papal speech etc was an ad limina address of John Paul II to American bishops on 9 December 1988, which I think is what Our Lady was referring to message 505: to Fr Gobbi "Any consideration of the eschatological dimension of the Church must necessarily include the Holy Eucharist. The Church constantly finds her nourishment in the Sacrament of the Body and Blood of the glorified Christ. At the end of time, the saving power of the Eucharist will attain its full effect when the holiness of the Church will be complete and the entire universe will be perfectly restored in Christ. Meanwhile, we “proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes”. The renewal of the Sacrifice of Christ on Calvary is at the same time the banquet of the Kingdom." He then at the end of the address says some very interesting things (notice at the end the invocation of the coming of the Lord)..."The present hour in the life of the Church calls for great hope, based on the eschatological promises of God and expressed in renewed confidence in the power of Christ’s Paschal Mystery. This is the hour for renewed effort in inviting young people to the priesthood and religious life, the hour for renewed serenity in proclaiming the most difficult demands of Christianity and the loftiest challenges of the Cross. It is the hour for a new commitment to holiness on the part of the Church, as she prepares for the great Jubilee of the year 2000 and invokes the coming of the Lord Jesus." You see it all fits together like a jigsaw but without missing pieces!!
I appreciate your answer and thus your reason for caution on Garabandal. And also your thoughtful ideas on the chastizement and why. The rest of your response, not so much. The very reason attempts to reconcile any prophecies are even made, is because these prophecies have been made, and some continue to be made. None of us wants to be deceived, so it is NECESSARY in discerment. "Part of the problem"....really??? The Church herself has invited the confusion, by founding herself on teachings of church fathers (who went to great lengths to define their interpretations of the plan of salvation, including the end time prohecies), and then becoming increasingly ambiguous in official teaching on the matter, to the point that most in the pews probably have no idea what that teaching is. It seems clearer to you when viewed with 20/20 hindsight, but how did it seem to those who lived between 1920 and 1943? Fatima was not approved, and St. Faustina's diary was fairly new, and not propogated for decades after. In fact, devotion to Divine Mercy was banned by the Holy Office in 1959. Not until Cardinal Wojtyla began the informative process in the late 60's, did it start to turn. Then in 1978 the ban was lifted, just before JPII became pope. Faustina was not Saint Faustina until 2000. How did the faithful discern truth Then? What would be the proper disposition if one were introduced to Fatima and Divine Mercy then? I love JPII, and he has done much to prepare us and indicate what is coming (canonizations of Fatima seers, consecrations, Divine Mercy devotions-feast-canonization, etc.), but sometimes his prolific writings, and those on the subject did not exude clarity, with many flowery references to the Paschal Mystery and "renewed confidence" and "serenity" and "for the coming of the Lord Jesus", in a way that perpetuated the ambiguity. We certainly trust in Jesus Christ our Savior. But we don't want to ignore Him or His Mother when they speak to the world with timely messages. Because these can be both TRUE and FALSE, we MUST either seek to DISCERN or IGNORE. I choose to discern, with prayer and the sacraments as my basis. It is too important.
