Yes, I understand. It is why it is so important to make sure that our priests are orthodox in the teachings of the Church and not preaching another gospel. By their fruits we will know whether they are true shepherds or hired hands. It is not that hard to tell especially these days. [31] Therefore I say to you: Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but the blasphemy of the Spirit shall not be forgiven. [32] And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come. [33] Either make the tree good and its fruit good: or make the tree evil, and its fruit evil. For by the fruit the tree is known. [34] O generation of vipers, how can you speak good things, whereas you are evil? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. [35] A good man out of a good treasure bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of an evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
I apologize Praetorian, I didn't mean to imply that you in any way were saying something that could lead others into error. You are obviously correct about this and did provide links to back this up. We do have the means to know such men although sadly in many cases it is leadership within our own Church which has covered up and even hidden many of the exterior signs we would know these men by.
Isaiah 30:20 ...your Teacher will not hide himself any more, but your eyes shall see your Teacher. 21 And your ears shall hear a word behind you, saying, "This is the way, walk in it," when you turn to the right or when you turn to the left. In December, 1980, this was one of the readings at Saturday Holy Mass. I had spent hours praying the previous night because by Sunday I had to let my spiritual director know if I felt I was being led to enter the novitiate of the Society of Mary. When Saturday morning arrived I still was torn. But hearing v.21 at Holy Mass convinced me God was about to reveal His Will. So I returned to my room and picked up my daily devotional with great expectancy. The particular devotional I was using would select a daily Bible passage randomly. Here was that day's selection: Lev 25:8 "And you shall count seven weeks of years, seven times seven years, so that the time of the seven weeks of years shall be to you forty-nine years. 9 Then you shall send abroad the loud trumpet on the tenth day of the seventh month; on the day of atonement you shall send abroad the trumpet throughout all your land. 10 And you shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants; it shall be a jubilee for you, when each of you shall return to his property and each of you shall return to his family. Let us always trust that the Holy Spirit will direct us in our various discernments. Safe in the Refuge of the Immaculate Heart!
You are 100% correct - and I for one have never seen you posted anything contrary to the Church. I can understand you being upset at being called a heretic, but try not to be. For those who do not know what you have said it must be a great shock. Give them some time to read up on it and come to terms. Personally, I’ve contemplated this a lot lately as we’ve seen the great falling away from faith. What causes this? Many things I suppose. But how clever and wicked it would be to deprive the Most Holy Sacrament from the faithful without them knowing it. I’m not saying for sure it is happening, but it would make the great apostasy make a whole lot more sense, what better way to achieve that end?
I didnt receive Communion more than once because matter was changed or the words of consecration changed. But those were obvious hard to miss situations. I dont think we can sort out who is validly ordained ed or which bishop is validly consecrated. That is WAY above our pay grade. Thank God.
Thank you both very much for the support! I try to be meticulously orthodox in everything I post and when I post Church teachings I always double-check to make sure I am correct. And if I post something incorrect I am humble enough to fix it. What I posted in in no way whatsoever heretical. Not even near it.
I agree. Sean is meticulously orthodox and charitable. Please let's not throw fire bombs like "heretic." Who gains from that rhetoric? The devil.
Thank you very much AED. It took me an hour making my initial post last night because I wanted to triple-check to make sure everything I was posting was correct. I never want to mislead anyone in matters of the faith. We will be judged on every idle word.
I have thought about this much as well, but as Don and AED pointed out getting too caught up in worrying about this or anything else can lead one off-course and that was never my intention. We cannot know the answer to all of these things. Just seek out orthodox priests, surely that is a sign of God's Grace in action.
I had read in the past about more than one member of the hierarchy consecrating Bishops to ensure a valid consecration in case one Bishop might have evil intent. I'm pretty sure that the priest being consecrated a Bishop gets to choose at least one of the co-consecrators. I'm very surprised to learn that the validity of other Sacraments could depend on the priest's internal disposition. Jesus left us a visible Church and he promised to be with that Church to the end. He also left us visible channels of Sanctifying Grace in the form of the Sacraments. I'll trust that Jesus knew what he was doing and that the Holy Spirit inspired sacred Scripture, so the Church is where the Bishop is even if the Bishop is another Judas. And I will take that trust to mean that as long as the priest believes he was validly ordained and as long as he does and says what Canon Law requires, I'm not denied Sacramental grace, including the indelible mark of Baptism on my soul as well as every benefit of the other Sacraments right up to the time of my death when I pray that I will receive the Apostolic pardon with the Sacrament of Extreme Unction. God can deal with any failings on the part of the clergymen administering the Sacraments. It's best not to sweat these things. God doesn't do bait and switch.
It wasn't directed at you at all. Nor was it intended to offend anyone. I wasn't even thinking of you when I made that comment to what I think is a very perceptive post. I was only expressing my opinion. Maybe there are no valid priests in the world. It is not implausible. Invalidity could well increase in an exponential manner once it reaches the level of the bishop. This would mean that even perfectly well-intentioned priests might not be valid. It's a mind-boggling vista. I don't doubt your sources, but how can we even trust these authorities on that basis? Maybe they were ordained by invalid bishops? Maybe their own intentions were impure. Like the sedevacantists, it is the road to trusting nobody, because only God can know what is in a person's heart. We have to trust God will not allow things to degenerate into this utterly impossible situation.
