A little digression from this topic - have you heard of the 'Devil Hole' at the grotto of St Francis of Assisi? "..... a short but narrow stairway leads down to the Grotto of St. Francis, where the saint prayed and slept on a stone bed while on retreat toward the end of his life. Squeezing through another doorway and rounding a corner, visitors emerge into a small porch. Just outside the door, look down for a quatrefoil-shaped hole in the smooth pink stone. This is the "Devil Hole," which looks into the not-very-deep crevasse into which St. Francis is said to have tossed a troublesome demon who tempted Brother Rufino. Many visitors throw coins into the hole." http://www.sacred-destinations.com/italy/assisi-eremo-delle-carceri +
"There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors" C.S. Lewis: Screwtape
I want to clear up the nature of my question. I don't want to research this kind of stuff or have a huge interest in it. Just found it fascinating that there is potentially a church out there with a connection to something to hell that they have covered up both with a baptismal font and really covered up from the world knowing. Hell is very real. If anything the church doesn't talk enough about it anymore sadly. Not many even believe it exists, but things like the possibility of proof that is does could be remarkable for non believers and sinners to embrace God more and sin and hell all over this world less.
Which was why I was so surprised to hear Fr Michel mention it. It’s interesting to hear his opinion on where hell is located.
I think we all need to be reminded there really is a hell. If we are honest, we all think we are good and deserving of being saved by Jesus. But God will use this life to find out what we are made of. And He permits the devil to tempt us, so we can demonstrate who's side we are on. Of course we fall many times, so we get a chance to be humble enough to admit we were duped by the devil by going to confession; to repent and return to God's ways. It was fashionable a few years ago for young people to say all those who like a good time go to hell, so they wanted to go there because they would have a good time in hell with people who liked to party. They thought going to Heaven was boring like going to Church. I promise you this is the truth. I had conversations when I was still working with people who thought like that. I remember asking them which would they prefer, to be in Iraq because there was a war going on then, or here in the UK where they could enjoy getting together with family and friends and enjoying each others company. Of course they preferred the latter. I remember saying to them, well war is a form of hell on earth. living in a country at peace is more like what it would be in Heaven. Thanks be to God that always made them stop the nonsense, and think about what they were saying. I do think there are still people who think like that. Probably people who want to join witches think they are in the party type going to have a good time with the devil, and he is laughing all the way to the pit. Imagine, if we get to Heaven, we will be free to explore the whole universe. Free to meet all the Angels and Saints. Moses, Abraham, Blessed Mother, Jesus, Heavenly Father, Holy Spirit. Any saint you ever imagined will be there and all eternity to enjoy their company along with our loved ones. On the other hand if we end up in hell, we will be trapped in a dirty stinking sewer, which has countless torture chambers, and no hope of light apart from the fires of hell. And no chance of ever going anywhere. In Lock down for all eternity, being tortured and bullied and abused and hurt over and over again. No thank you. We were not created for that sort of eternity, where post traumatic stress is never allowed to get to the post stage. Jesus, Son of God, have Mercy on me a sinner. Save me and those You have placed around me. I believe You want us all to come to Heaven. Amen
I agree, don't go there. Innocent and "just for the information" inquiries into the occult, paganism, Hell, and demonism can lead to immediate or gradual spiritual troubles. It can get bad quick. Don't even. Just don't. We have One God, we know Him through His Son, we have the Holy Spirit, and the Blessed Virgin Mary, and the Church, we don't need anything else. Not to sound too scoldy, but I've been there. Not good. Stay away.
You don't sound scoldy, just like someone who got their fingers burned. Don't worry, there are testimonies out there like John Ramirez (if I have spelled his name correctly) and others who describe the whole shabang. You can watch my favourite testimony of a Christian revert Howard Storm describing how he nearly ended up in hell and the horrible abuse and bullying he endured until Jesus came to his rescue. He will tell his story until the end of his days to help steer people back to God and Salvation. Peace.
Julia. It’s no coincidence you just mentioned Howard Storm. It was his book that begun the whole start of my coming back to the faith when I read it in 2005. That book appealed to me because he was local and the nun from his class that became his close friend taught at my sisters school when she was in high school in the early 90’s. It’s a wonderful account. I hear you all loud and clear about cautions with the occult. Sadly I knew it well when I left the church of my birth and became New Age. I have also had run ins with attacks from the devil and his demons that I will never forget. I truly appreciate the warnings and not seeking it at all. Again I truly believe people have forgotten and believed in the hell and the devil and sadly I believe our church has failed the world by not talking about it.
I have posted this before, but when I was a teenager, our pastor preached in his homily that we could leave Mass on Sunday, drive off the parking lot, have a car accident and end up in Hell if we were in a state of mortal sin. I’ve never forgotten that.
When I was young,before Vatican 2 the Redmptorists had a vow they took topreach om Hell . They used to scare us alll to death. I remember one saying to imagine a drop of boiling hot water on our arm and then imagine being plunged into boiling hot water forever and ever. I think this was a good thing. I wosh priests still preached like this.;
I have never heard mortal sin mentioned once in any sermon I have been at in Mass. I've heard being nice, kind, thoughful, generous too many times! I hate the word nice.
This is one of the reasons why I love Padre Pio so much. He had that hard edge. It's a bit like a surgeon operating, a surgeon has a scapel and cuts into the cancer. I am afraid we have turned God into a pink, sweet smelling , wafting cloud complete with the sound of tinkling cymbals rather than the Glory and Thunder of Mount Sinai. God is not a pussy cat. You can't take Him on you lap and pet Him. He won't like it. He is bigger and better than that. Making God as small as we are is a big mistake Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
If I was a priest I would always warn souls about the HOLINESS of God - I would preach this till I was blue in the face It is beyond human comprehension but it is the reason Scriptures tells us to 'be holy for I am holy' and our Blessed Lord calls us to be perfect 'even as in heaven your Father is perfect'. And one day brethern (I am preaching now) we are going to encounter the living and holy God in all His Shekhina glory!! Are you ready to encounter the Triune Thrice Holy God? Amen
Exactly. Being a literature major in college I always see analogies--and this strange "sleep" in the Church since VII remindx me of the land of the lotus eaters in the Odyssey. Odysseus had to forcefully drag them back to the ship because all they wanted to do was eat the lotus and feel good. They would rather dream of home than go to the suffering and hard labor of getting home.
