This is a good discussion. I am glad we are engaging in it... Here is a well-written article on the Pope's announcement that I found helpful, which comes from a conservative Catholic magazine in the US: http://www.crisismagazine.com/2013/the-reason-benedict-resigned Also, on the renunciation point: the Pope is the Bishop of Rome. Bishops of other dioceses routinely retire/renounce their episcopacy once they turn 75. Granted, each individual Bishop must request permission from the Vatican, but that permission is always granted. Is Benedict's resignation/renunciation any different? It is certainly being played out on a much grander scale than, say, the resignation by the Bishop of Buffalo, NY last year, but I am not sure that it is all that different. Just a thought. Perhaps it was ultimately Benedict's respect for the Petrine office that drove his decision? He seems to have such a deep love and appreciation for our Faith. I still find it hard to believe he would simply "turn his back" on His flock... Like I said before- much to ponder. Thank you all for your insights.
Well - at least we know that he is not the Pope of St John Bosco's famous vision ! http://www.catholicgarden.com/bosco.html Perhaps, Peter Romanus will be the one to steer the Church through the coming storms?
Would it be possible that Pope Benedict, knowing what is coming, also knows that it is better to resolve the issue of his successor now rather than at that time? I don't want to sound melodramatic but I think that the forces of darkness could try to destroy the election of the next pope but that Benedict has cut them short, maybe they intended to assassinate him at a time of their choosing, maybe they still do...
Oh well interesting discussion anyway. Pope Benedict is as smart as Einstein and as Holy as St Michael and of course reigning Pope, so the smart money is on him, folks would be crazy not to go along with him. So lets agree to disagree. But of course, being Irish, I have to fire of one last shot before riding off into the sunset. Say this new Pope let's call him Pope P comes in . He lays dwon something new and it gets out the retired Pope Benedict very much disagrees ; where does the smart money go then, on the retired Pope who is smart as EInstein and Holy as an angel or on the new guy Pope P/? God never intended two living Popes to occupy the same planet. But there I will leave it at that. I agree to disagree. Time will tell.
Oh boy, Padraig. I think I get where you are going with this. Certainly food for thought and reflection.
Not for several centuries has the Church been so open to schism. There are of course many, many prophesies suggesting this is about to occur. The viewing figures of the forum are going through the roof. A sign of huge interest in all this. There is an old Chinese curse, 'May you live in interesting time'. Well these times are very,very interesting indeed!!
Catherine Emmerich (19th century): I also saw the Holy Father– God-fearing and prayerful. Nothing left to be desired in his appearance, but he was weakened by old age and by much suffering (Dupont Yves. Catholic Prophecy: The Coming Chastisement. TAN Books, Rockford (IL), 1973, p. 68). Helen Wallraff (19th century): Some day a pope will flee from Rome in the company of only four cardinals . . . and they will come to Koeln [Cologne] (Dupont, p. 78). The Prophecy of Premol (5th century): And I see the King of Rome and his Cross and his tiara, shaking the dust off of his shoes, and hastening his flight to other shores. Thy Church, O Lord, is torn apart by her own children. One camp is faithful to the fleeing Pontiff, the other is subject to the new government of Rome which has broken the tiara. But Almighty God will, in His mercy, put an end to this confusion and a new age will begin. Then, said the Spirit, this is the beginning of the End of Time.
I love this forum!! Thank you Padraig for accepting this duty that Our Good Lord has given you! I love the different prespectives knowing that we all have in common, Love for Jesus, Mary and The Catholic Church. I know here at this forum I can get respectable view points from other like minded people. I have my own opinions of this situation but I am choosing to wait. Thank you everyone and may the Good Lord Jesus bless us all during these interesting times we live in!!
I know you have rejected the messages of maria Divine mercy but in the past year she has given messages about Pope Benedict being forced out of office. I find it extremely strange that he does not appear to have discussed this major move with anyone other than his brother. The Cardinals present were absolutely shocked. Its all very strange. My feelings about this renouncement of the papacy are similar to Padraigs in that I cant understand how he could abandon his post at such a time of turmoil. Its quite incredible. Much prayer needed. We really have to trust the Lord now. God bless Mary
My belief (although a little different) leans more towards what you are thinking Padraig!! There are lots of prophecies that say this is exactly what happens. It is just a matter of time (I believe within our lifetime) before we find out which Pope they were talking about in these prophecies!! I love how you think outside the box Padraig!! Some people hear this and are quick to dismiss it because just the thought of it is too much for them to handel
I don't have prophetic dreams, or locutions... I might just have an overactive imagination... but if Joseph Ratzinger doesn't die a martyrs death I'll buy you all a virtual coffee. God and all His angels protect Joseph Ratzinger.
I don't know what to think of those MDM messages either....but one message in mid-2011 also said: "Pray for My beloved Pope Benedict. He is surrounded by very powerful enemies of God. Gluttons for power and control of My Church. Prayer can help delay his imminent departure when he will be forced to leave The Vatican as foretold. Pray, pray, pray for this period in time for it will be the darkest ever to befall my sacred servants, Bishops, Cardinals and all true followers of Mine. The keys of Rome will now be handed back to God, the Almighty Father." ?
Hi guys, this is a very interesting discussion, but on the subject of MDM messages there are some catholic blogs on the net exposing her many, many errors. I'm not great on the computer so I can't give links etc, but if you google "the warning second coming blog" I'm sure something worth while will pop up!
bflocatholic . Thank you for pointing out a very good source. A related article from the site, i quote below, has further points of interest: "... I have no insight into the reasons for the Pope’s decision, though I fear that rapidly declining health is at the head of the list. How blessed we were to have a man who inherited the hardest job in the world, at an age where others feel the bitter decline of old age. For eight years he has governed the Church with a steady hand, righting the bark of Peter so inundated by the forces of the world. Perhaps he was fearful of manipulation by those who so often surround the centers of power. He refused to let his bodily weakness be a vehicle for damage to the Church. For all of these we are profoundly grateful. His legacy in doctrine, liturgy, and theology far outstrips the relative brevity of his pontificate. He is truly a worthy successor to St. Benedict, Father of monks and patron of Europe, to Benedict XIV -the shining light of learning, and to Benedict XV—the great Pope of Peace. Perhaps in our initial shock we may have neglected to think of some of the advantages of this development. Benedict will be able to advise his successor, ensuring a continuity of governance that will be unparalleled in the recent history of the Church. He will be able to give the new pope “the lay of the land.” In this way Benedict helps to disintermediate various curial interests, which, like any bureaucracy, make it difficult to begin a reign. I believe this will be the most orderly transition of authority witnessed in historical memory, even in an age of peaceful conclaves. I offer one final thought: Benedict has offered us a witness of the exceptional sovereignty of the pope. Truly he is the successor of Peter who has freely manifested his resignation, which can be accepted by no power on earth. ..." Pasted from <http://www.crisismagazine.com/2013/pope-benedicts-resignation-in-historical-context>
I have also found an article on the Pope St Peter Celestine V, who clearly Pope Benedict has thought on and hopefully prayed to. ST. CELESTINE V 1294 AD Once more the cardinals cruelly hurt the Church as their wrangling left it without a pope for over two years. The deadlock was finally broken in a manner quite startling. Cardinal Orsini told his colleagues that a holy monk had warned him that God had revealed that they would be punished if they did not put an end to their differences and elect a pope. Moved, the cardinals did elect a pope--the holy monk himself, Peter of Murrone! Peter was the son of poor parents. Born early in the century, he was the eleventh of twelve children. Right from the start he delighted his good parents by manifesting signs of real sanctity. He became a hermit on Mt. Murrone; then to avoid the crowds which flocked around him, he withdrew to even more remote Mt. Majella. Here he lived an austere life, filled with prayer, long fasts, hair shirts, and iron chains. But since crowds still pursued him, he formed a branch of the Benedictine order, later called the Celestines. For lay folk he founded a sort of "third order." Such was the man elected by the cardinals to rule the Church. One requisite Peter certainly had--sanctity. But could a simple old man who had lived his life in the mountains cope with the complex situations faced by medieval popes? Peter naturally was overwhelmed when the cardinals' delegates, after a weary climb through the mountains, announced his election. He wanted to refuse, to fly, but his monks told him roundly that it was his duty to end the long vacancy. King Charles of Naples, overjoyed at the election of a friend, hastened to add his pleas to those of the monks. Torn between fear of acting against God's will and of being a mighty poor pope, the old man was sadly distressed. At last he accepted and took the name of Celestine V. Trouble started at once. Charles of Naples had been a good friend of the monk, but he could not resist taking advantage of the pope. It was as if poor Celestine were his mouthpiece! The cardinals reluctantly had to come to Aquila in the Kingdom of Naples for the consecration on August 29. Celestine then proceeded, not to Rome, but to Naples. He created new cardinals who were all French or Neapolitan. But if the king found Celestine a puppet, unscrupulous curial officials found the simple old man a gold mine. Soon they were selling blank bulls! Celestine longed only for peace, and if he was no ruler, he was still a saint. He realized that he had made a mistake. More and more he thought of resigning. He made sure he could abdicate. He asked advice of canon lawyers. He renewed--much to the disgust of the cardinals--the badly needed election decree of Gregory X. A poetical message from the famous Jacopone da Todi proved to be a last straw. The fiery Franciscan warned the Pope of the abuses which were running riot under his feeble old hands. On December 13 Celestine met the cardinals in the great hall of the palace. Clad in full pontificals, he read them the decree of abdication, then stepped down and stripped himself of all papal insignia. The "great refusal," as Dante called it, had been made. Celestine was kept in confinement by his successor Boniface VIII, lest he should become the tool of designing schemers and endanger the unity of the Church. He died on May 19,1296. Pope Clement V canonized him. Pasted from <http://www.cfpeople.org/books/pope/popep190.htm>
Don't worry. I think I and most others have seen the opnions and examples, and there is reason to be skeptical. That is why those messages aren't really ever discussed here. However, some of the messages related to Benedict are notable due to current events, and probably interesting enough just to observe as to their accuracy since it is so timely and easy to observe as it happens. If a bishop condemns her, I will certainly refrain from even looking. As, far as I know, there has been nothing yet. Just testing... 1 Thessalonians 5 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE) 5 But as to the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need to have anything written to you. 2 For you yourselves know well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 When people say, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as travail comes upon a woman with child, and there will be no escape. 4 But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief. 5 For you are all sons of light and sons of the day; we are not of the night or of darkness. 6 So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober. 7 For those who sleep sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But, since we belong to the day, let us be sober, and put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us so that whether we wake or sleep we might live with him. 11 Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing. Final Exhortations, Greetings, and Benediction 12 But we beseech you, brethren, to respect those who labor among you and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, 13 and to esteem them very highly in love because of their work. Be at peace among yourselves.[a] 14 And we exhort you, brethren, admonish the idle, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with them all. 15 See that none of you repays evil for evil, but always seek to do good to one another and to all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray constantly, 18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. 19 Do not quench the Spirit, 20 do not despise prophesying, 21 but test everything; hold fast what is good, 22 abstain from every form of evil. 23 May the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 He who calls you is faithful, and he will do it.
I think it's a mistake to take this lightly and wax poetic about his "legacy" and how good it will be for him to advise a successor....etc. That is all I am hearing on both Catholic radio and secular news. What is his legacy? Does the church have to change with the times? It must be his health? Blah, blah. blah. I think we need to be wise, and discern the signs, especially since Our Lady has been warning us to prepare for these times for the past hundred years. If I hear one more dismissal of our duty to pay attention to these signs ot the times, often from the clergy, by quoting the scripture passage "we know not the day or the hour".... They should not take that out of context with the admonitions that come before and after...in the same chapter nonetheless (see Mark 13:32-37 at the bottom): Mark 13 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE) The Destruction of the Temple Foretold 13 As he came out of the temple, one of his disciples said to him, “Look, Teacher, what large stones and what large buildings!” 2 Then Jesus asked him, “Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone will be left here upon another; all will be thrown down.” 3 When he was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked him privately, 4 “Tell us, when will this be, and what will be the sign that all these things are about to be accomplished?” 5 Then Jesus began to say to them, “Beware that no one leads you astray. 6 Many will come in my name and say, ‘I am he!’[a] and they will lead many astray. 7 When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed; this must take place, but the end is still to come. 8 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be earthquakes in various places; there will be famines. This is but the beginning of the birth pangs. Persecution Foretold 9 “As for yourselves, beware; for they will hand you over to councils; and you will be beaten in synagogues; and you will stand before governors and kings because of me, as a testimony to them. 10 And the good news[b] must first be proclaimed to all nations. 11 When they bring you to trial and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say; but say whatever is given you at that time, for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. 12 Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death; 13 and you will be hated by all because of my name. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. The Desolating Sacrilege 14 “But when you see the desolating sacrilege set up where it ought not to be (let the reader understand), then those in Judea must flee to the mountains; 15 the one on the housetop must not go down or enter the house to take anything away; 16 the one in the field must not turn back to get a coat. 17 Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing infants in those days! 18 Pray that it may not be in winter. 19 For in those days there will be suffering, such as has not been from the beginning of the creation that God created until now, no, and never will be. 20 And if the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would be saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he has cut short those days. 21 And if anyone says to you at that time, ‘Look! Here is the Messiah!’[c] or ‘Look! There he is!’—do not believe it. 22 False messiahs[d] and false prophets will appear and produce signs and omens, to lead astray, if possible, the elect. 23 But be alert; I have already told you everything. The Coming of the Son of Man 24 “But in those days, after that suffering, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, 25 and the stars will be falling from heaven, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see ‘the Son of Man coming in clouds’ with great power and glory. 27 Then he will send out the angels, and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven. The Lesson of the Fig Tree 28 “From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. 29 So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that he[e] is near, at the very gates. 30 Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. The Necessity for Watchfulness 32 “But about that day or hour no one knows, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33 Beware, keep alert;[f] for you do not know when the time will come. 34 It is like a man going on a journey, when he leaves home and puts his slaves in charge, each with his work, and commands the doorkeeper to be on the watch. 35 Therefore, keep awake—for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or at cockcrow, or at dawn, 36 or else he may find you asleep when he comes suddenly. 37 And what I say to you I say to all: Keep awake.”
many, many butterfflies in the stomach! So many realy exellent posts! I am restless and sleepless tonight . But so happy tonight. What a good alert forum......what a great forum a great band of sisters and brothers...we do not sleep, we are alert...good Catolic sheepdogs so aware of the great fading sheep dog of Rome We read the Signs of the time as Jesus warned... we listen to Mary, we fast we pray.... we keep our lanterns lit... we take counsel amongst ourselves ..we do not argue or fight amongst ourselves,,, we listen, we keep charity...... we ask the Most Holy SPirit in prayer for the grace of Wisdom Come Holy Spirit Fill the hearts of your faithful enkindle them with the light of your love...
