Abp Vigano also wrote: "“Those of us who have not let ourselves be deceived… must unite and face off against the Evil One.” +
Well said. It is surely a paradox but God often deals in paradox through salvation history it seems to me. Padre Pio endured calumnies and persecution from his superiors his whole life yet he did not rebel. St Bernadette endured in charity being misjudged and persecuted by one of her superiors. St John if the Cross did as well. St Frsncis was all but thrown out of the order he founded. Such injustices and horrors test our spiritual mettle. And often result in repentance on the part of those who have misjudged and persecuted such saints. It is a mystery but "all things work toward good for those who love God and are called according to His purpose"
In this Church, we are a rare minority that know the Faith and Keep it. The vast majority of Catholics neither know the Faith nor care to keep it. That vast majority is indeed being poisoned.
Not denying this. I am saying that we are to obey in all things but sin as Our Lady of Revelation said to Bruno. I pray for the vast majority of Catholics who neither know the Faith nor keep it, as I am sure most of us do.
Knock yourself out, Brian, trying to change this. Prayers and fasting are called for. Sad that you put the word obedient in quotation marks.
When Akiane finally retrieved the original painting of Jesus after a number of years, it had suffered various kinds of damage, but the reunion was sweet. We should look at ourselves, or perhaps even the Church Herself in the same way. Since Abba adopted us at our baptisms, we have been bumped, bruised, and at times scarred. But the Lord is faithful, never abandoning us. Even if we turn our backs on Him so that we no longer perceive the beauty of His Love, He is always there, calling us by name, making available a pathway to return to His Arms. Sin separates; His Mercy restores. So let us sincerely pray for loved ones who have walked away from the Faith because of scandal, because of a mistaken sense that Abba doesn't care, or because another Christian has failed to love or extend mercy. God's timing is flawless. He will accept our prayers from the hands of Mary who stood at the foot of Christ's victorious Cross. Like Therese's prayers which impacted the heart of the prisoner as he stood on the scaffold of death, so Abba will honor our prayers and enable one fallen away to return, and in accepting the Mercy of Jesus, gaze upon the Face of their Abba. Hosea 2:14 "Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak tenderly to her. 15 And there I will give her her vineyards, and make the Valley of Achor a door of hope. And there she shall answer as in the days of her youth, as at the time when she came out of the land of Egypt. 16 "And in that day, says the LORD, you will call me, `My husband,' and no longer will you call me, `My Ba'al.' 17 For I will remove the names of the Ba'als from her mouth, and they shall be mentioned by name no more. 18 And I will make for you a covenant on that day with the beasts of the field, the birds of the air, and the creeping things of the ground; and I will abolish the bow, the sword, and war from the land; and I will make you lie down in safety. 19 And I will betroth you to me for ever; I will betroth you to me in righteousness and in justice, in steadfast love, and in mercy. 20 I will betroth you to me in faithfulness; and you shall know the LORD.
Each person in that vast majority is responsible for their souls. They have free will. We must pray for them. And it’s not only the souls in the Church being led astray, how about the whole world? How about the Scriptures that must be fulfilled? Can we change that?
We both know we can personally do nothing to change this, except prayer, fasting and penance. But I have a duty and an obligation to warn fellow Catholics not to follow the errors of this pope, or somehow work themselves into mental pretzels thinking they owe him “obedience” where clearly they do not. My best approach to this papacy, and that of the majority of good faithful Catholics I know, is to completely ignore this papacy. Where that is no longer possible, we must at least keep it from damaging the faith of fellow Catholics as much as possible. These prophecies about being “obedient” to a pope obviously do not apply to a known heretic on the thrown, even if the churchmen tasked with declaring him as such shrink from their duties in the eyes of God.
So I guess it's "Hail Mother Earth" now instead of "Hail Victory" (or "Hail Mary", for that matter). Coincidentally, do you know how many German seminarians refused to serve in the Wehrmacht when they were drafted? One, he was executed for betraying his country.
I find the errors of this papacy to be so overwhelming and routine that to give him obedience in anything he says or does to be a danger to my soul and that of Catholics worldwide. It’s NOT our jobs as faithful lay Catholics to have to discern whether every or any words or acts of a pope deserve obedience. When such is a requirement the only safe response is to ignore him and his agenda for the good of our souls. Because of his sacrilegious and/or heretical words and acts, which represent the cohesive majority of his papacy, I cannot in good conscience grant obedience to anything he says and does (which always has a motive other than what we think of as Catholic), or encourage anyone else to do so, or take seriously anyone who tries to apply a prophecy about obedience to this particular papacy. (The latter is a form of gaslighting.)
It's interesting to note, that, now that I think about it, the first world war could be interpreted as attacking social kingship, the second the office of prophet, and what we're going through now as attacking the Church and the Priesthood directly. Not a great theory but interesting.
I agree with you BrianK, until the Pope comes out with a crystal clear message void of all the usual ambiguity it is safer to not worry about what he has to say. Saint Jerome - “[Heretics] mean one thing in their heart; they promise another with their lips. They speak with piety and conceal impiety. They speak Christ and hide the Antichrist, for they know that they will never succeed with their seduction if they disclose the Antichrist. They present light only to conceal darkness; through light they lead to darkness.”
Like I said, Brian. Knock yourself out. You missed the point totally of what I was getting at, which was a quote from Our Lady to Bruno In which She said “although the one who gives an order seems in error, you are bound to obey,” unless it is against faith, morals or charity. It’s what we are doing, now. It’s exactly what you just said you are doing. We can rail all we want, and it won’t change a thing. I like that you said you mostly don’t pay attention to this Pope. I try to do that, as well.
Ok, my apologies if I misread the drift of this thread. I know we have at least one valuable forum member who has themselves in knots over the application of obedience in the case of this papacy, and inserting prophecies about the same can only further complicate this issue. Frankly I think Spirit Daily is using this particular prophecy to undermine a right and proper critique of this papacy! It’s a dangerous form of gaslighting.
That’s okay, Brian. But I’m not imputing a motive to Spirit Daily’s use, just glad I read it today. It rings true.
