This is good too. The cat was out of the bag from the early days of this papacy but... Who was paying attention?
What was the context of the Pope's speech? Are we interpreting what he said correctly? Who was he telling to obey the UN? The headline I read was a follows --- Pope Francis tells UK to obey UN resolution on Chagos Islands The UN has called on the UK to return the archipelago to Mauritius. https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...un-resolution-on-chagos-islands-38488417.html
Garabandal, I think you are correct in looking into the context of this. I did just a very brief look. I actually don’t have too much time this morning to even vet this entire post, but maybe someone else here does. I did find this link . Please read the full text. I just quickly look for any reference to the UN and I’ll post what caught my eye. I have to say, it really bothered me that PF has such high regard for the UN and his comments gave me even further concern. If you see something to the contrary, please post. The screenshot is only a portion from the article from this link.: https://catholicherald.co.uk/news/2...s-in-flight-press-conference-from-madagascar/ I meant to include this additional screenshot of the question asked to PF. His response followed.
....it should be resolved as civilized brothers is the exact opposite of obey international institutions like the UN. God created sovereign nations for a reason.
Wow!! Good post. Amazing. Pope Francis appears to be pulling this stuff right out of a hat, where in Catholic Teaching does it suggest that we have to obey International Organisations (such as the UN)? I must look this up. This is a first for me.
I had never heard of the Chagos islands before the Pope's visit to Mauritius. Looking at the information provided by Wikipedia, I see nothing wrong with the Pope's response to the question about the islands. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagos_Archipelago
No the islands should be given back to their owners. This is true, But, '....obedience to the judgement of International Institutions as part of Catholic Doctrine'?? I'd love to see this sourced. Where in the Teachings of the Church is this written? Chapter and Verse? Catholics should be obedient to the United Nations? Really? I never heard of such thing before!! The United Nations has been a prime mover, for instance, in , 'Population Control'.
As I understood what he said, he meant that if we give authority to an international court to make a judgement on an issue brought before it, we should accept that judgement even when it goes against us. Would that fit into the Catholic Doctrine of our obligation to obey the lawful government? I actually saw the interview on EWTN and didn't pay much attention to it because his rambling, prevaricating style is irksome. I'm actually surprised that someone actually managed to make sense out of what he said.
This reminds me of the case where Vincent (I cannot remember his last name) was starved and dehydrated to death this past year. The UN court ruled that Vincent should live under the UN guidelines for people with disabilities. The government of France ignored that ruling and stopped feeding Vincent The Pope really wanted Vincent to live.
But the United Nations is not a Government. It seems quite a reach to me to compare them to a Government. I doubt very much if Sovereign Nations have handed them so much power. Well I hope not anyway. A World Government? Shudder.
this sounds like the symbolic resurgence of Nimrod's world empire that was undone by God in Genesis 11.
I don't know enough about how the UN operates to know whether or not it fits into the "lawful government" Doctrine. I suppose it depends on the extent of the UN's authority as recognised by governments. As Catholics, we are obliged to render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, which excludes matters of faith and morals. The Magisterium of the Church supercedes any secular authority in matters of faith and morals. It doesn't look like the people expelled from the islands were indigenous to them because their presence there only went back a hundred or so years. I wonder what kind of agreement was made when Mauritius got its independence.
So it seems as if, according to Pope Francis, the UN is now in charge of establishing church docrines on faith and morals. How's that going to work out?
I don't believe that's what he was saying. The question wasn't about a matter of faith or morals but about a territorial dispute between two sovereign nations. It seems to me that he was recommending that the dispute should be settled by an international court.
Then why did Pope Francis state "I would like to repeat the doctrine of the church.....you should obey international institutuions" in what Beth posted?
That was in the context of the question he was answering. The question was a dispute about territory. It had nothing to do with faith or morals. What he said about education is more worrying. Had any other Pope made the same comments, it wouldn't be a problem. Coming from this Pope ???????
Isn't it a great pity Francis didn't tell the Irish people to vote against abortion instead of telling the world to obey the UN. Ireland has influenced the world of Catholicism over the last 2K years like few other countries have done, surely we deserved a few words of support for our unborn.
The mass murder is very low down the list of urgent Vatican priorities. Global Warming. Free Migration Homosexual 'RIghts' Married Priests. These are for more, 'urgent'. The mudrder of the little ones is at best an after thought, if it is a thought at all. As is the mass murder of Christians in places like China, Africa and the Middle East..
