Blessed Virgin Mary: Orthodox will return when Russia is Consecrated.

Sorry that you believe that I'm being disingenuous and prefer the secular activity that is simply for the purpose to uncomplicate material matters for the good monsignor. That action did not have Msgr Esseff personally "distancing" himself from LTTW. I would just suggest that you might not want to influence others as to the proper understanding of Monsignor's discernment since he is the one closest to the truth here.

You could always attempt to contact the Monsignor yourself and update us all since you require a "direct statement" from him which the legal action itself did not accomplish either. This is not all that different from other PR that remain w/o any formal pronouncement...except that here we do have the personal judgement by the spiritual director. There is more to this one that is not intended for public knowledge. Most private revelations contain nuances that only those most intimately involved discern properly. Anything but black and white....if that weren't so the Holy Spirit might find Himself unemployed at least in that area of the mystical!

 

Seriously? Praetorian only ever acted out of charity. Your reply would be more fitting to someone like myself who tends to be more blunt in their assessment.

Here's the facts:

1) There exists no endorsement from Monsignor that can be verified.
2) The fact that he hired a lawyer to officially disassociate his name form them speaks a lot louder than anon sources claiming otherwise.
3) The messages missed a very specific prophecy - and that is a huge understatement. Big sign to le
4) Either name your friend and tell of the "not intended for public knowledge" or don't even bring it up.

The Monsignor is free to endorse the locutions if he in fact choses to do. Not everything is a conspiracy.

It amazes me how many "prophecies" are continually mentioned because they seem to fit with ones personal view of how the "end times" are going to play out. Whatever happened to objective assessment? If a message misses - time to move on.

 

I didn't "bring it up". There were assumptions made about the Monsignor and his actual stance re: LTTW messages and messenger due to the sparse amount of any real evidence via social media. I offered to clarify things for those who appeared to be looking for the extra unreported information. I know for certain otherwise and so offered that.

If you want something more like what has been adamantly required in other comments above, a "direct statement" from the Monsignor, than what I am permitted to state publicly but shared as best I could, simply do your own due diligence, as I suggested when my own knowledge was rebuffed, and simply contact him. Otherwise don't insult me while at the same time relating my own clarifications as something you might use yourself....since I've noticed that in your case/comments you relate a personal dislike for just about any and all unstamped contemporary private revelations which only demonstrates, to me at least, that you don't understand even the Church's approach to such matters and what She permits.

And after all that, your last statement seems to favor your own acceptance that the Monsignor possibly does endorse the locutions!! So what's your beef if what I offered did have an effect of a further understanding in the matter?

Yes, "not everything is a conspiracy" as you say, so why turn it into one?

 

My intent was not to be rude ETA. I am sorry you decided to go on the attack. I have no real interest in LTTW except to share with Xavier and others, who may not know much about them, that most people consider them discredited and for good reason. All you provided was some hearsay from someone you know who related something that someone else supposedly said that Msgr. Esseff said. I'm sorry but that is a game of telephone, not proof, and we all know how that game ends.

The fact that is that Msgr. Esseff chose to hire a lawyer to officially separate his name from these so called "messages". We also know the "messages" predicted a clear cut and definitive event. That event failed to materialize and that speaks volumes. Msgr. Esseff hasn't spoken a word publicly supporting them since. Those are the facts. I mean no offense to you or to anyone else, but if you choose to state otherwise then the burden is on you to prove it. I presented the facts, you presented hearsay. I am perfectly fine with Msgr. Esseff reinstating his personal belief in the supposed messages, but the fact is he hasn't.

I don't know why people cling to messages with obvious problems.
Why drink where the water has mud in it?

 

No "mud" connected to the good Monsignor E.

 

No there isn't and I didn't say there was. Only to the messages.
Please don't misrepresent what I have said.

 

Didn't. Only that he too would be "drinking where the water has mud in it" by your logic.

 

No, but here is some info re: Holy Love.....it is written by Fr. Frank Kenney,S.M., their spiritual director, who is one of the priests connected to the approved Our Lady of Light ministry/apparitions in Cincy OH, deceased now I believe. All the priests connected with that ministry were really great ones.....chosen by Our Lady Herself: Scroll down to his biography here; Fr. Frank Kenney, S.M.:

http://www.ourladyoflight.org/mission/priests-of-note/

His offering re: the Holy Love ministry: (scroll down to "relationship with diocese of Cleveland")

http://www.holylove.org/faq.php

 

He is not associated with these messages anymore.

 

"Holy Love" and LTTW are two different "seers".

"Holy Love" has been officially condemned by the bishop.
LTTW has lost credibility due to a false prophecy.

 

"Holy Love" is condemned.

 

Not condemned. You might want to read up on the history.

Can you explain your relationship with the Diocese of Cleveland? I've seen confusing statements and quotations.
Concerning the Relationship of Holy Love Ministries with the Cleveland Catholic Diocese:

I am the Spiritual Director of this Ministry and would like to comment on this situation.

Since we are frequently asked, we would like to state clearly that the Bishop has not condemned the Holy Love Ministries prayer site. It is a serious point to remember that non-approval is not disapproval. Apparently the diocesan authorities have given a few minor discouraging points in statements made: They state that they are not supporting this site. This is obvious and appropriate, as it is an ecumenical group. Catholic Church support has not been sought. Nor has the group represented itself as Catholic.

They have apparently warned people to be cautious about donations. Certainly that is not a bad thing, although difficult to understand as their main emphasis, since the site is free for all to visit, and the messages are given freely to anyone who asks.

Father Frank Kenney, S.M.
Born in Dayton, Ohio, the second of seven children, Father Kenney was ordained a priest in 1949. He received a doctorate in theology from Catholic University of America in 1956, his thesis title being Mary’s Spiritual Maternity According to Modern Spiritual Writers. Retired from his duties with the Marianists (he served as high school principal, head of four religious communities, associate university dean of students and chaplain of several university sports teams, and associate pastor), he continues as leader of prayer groups, as moderator of his healing ministry, and as spiritual director to a number of visionaries. He has been involved with the Batavia visionary and has received and discerned her messages since 1993 when Our Lady appeared to her at the Lourdes Grotto at Bergamo, Mount St. John, in Dayton, Ohio. The Bergamo facility is owned by the Society of Mary, Father’s order.

Along with so many lay people who are devoted to our Blessed Mother, I feel very happy, blessed and grateful to be involved in the Marian apparitions happening all over the world in our times. At the same time, it is so heartbreaking that so few clergy and religious are paying any attention to this urgent, all-significant and grace-filled phenomenon. What a privilege it is to be one of Mary’s apostles, helping her in her apostolic mission, in union with her Son Jesus, of crushing the head of the serpent, as foretold in Genesis (3:15), the first book of the Bible, and also referred to in the Book of Revelation (Chapter 12), the last book of the Bible.

Never in my wildest dreams did I ever anticipate having such a role in Mary’s apostolic activities in Dayton, Cincinnati, Cleveland and beyond. Leading Marian and healing prayer groups, directing visionaries, giving talks about Mary’s apparitions, attending Marian conferences, being privy to the conversion and mystic accounts of many people are some of the experiences that have lighted up my life.

Thanks be to God and Our Blessed Mother and all who are in this with me.

Father Frank Kenney, S.M.
Dayton, Ohio

 

Oh no? What do you mean by "associated" with? He continued to stand by them and the messenger....unless perhaps you have ordered him to be otherwise?

 

exactly!

 

This doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement from the local Bishop:

Ohio Bishop Lennon’s decree on the "Holy Love" ministries issued Nov. 11, 2009:

“Having been directed by the Holy See (in Rome) to act definitively in the matter of the alleged apparitions … and having reviewed the theological content of the alleged apparitions to Maureen Sweeney-Kyle and having consulted an expert in this matter, I … declare that the alleged apparitions and locations … are not supernatural in origin.” Lennon’s decree states he “forbid members of the clergy of any ecclesiastical jurisdiction” to celebrate the sacraments on the site of Holy Love Ministries.

“I admonish the faithful of the Diocese of Cleveland to cease gathering for any religious, liturgical, spiritual or devotional purpose on the site of Holy Love Ministries and declare that the Confraternity of the United Hearts of Jesus and Mary is not an approved association of the Christian faithful in the Diocese of Cleveland and may not legitimately use the name “Catholic” or represent itself as a Catholic group,”.

https://catholicexchange.com/proclamation-on-holy-love-ministries-will-test-hearts-and-obedience

 

A long way from your original "condemned" I see. See, it's good to always get better informed in such questions. "Admonished", etc......and since this is categorized as ecumenical it was a priori already concurring with the Bishop's directives since, as the spiritual director stated, such directives were "obvious and appropriate" since Catholic Church support had not been sought. A pretty "nothing burger" as a whole to complain about....esp. when it comes to using a knee jerk reaction that reaches to "condemned" to convince others.

 

No, no no. This is not a mere admonishment. Don't try to play it down. He didn't say be careful.
He said it is not supernatural and stay away.

If your take-away is that the Bishops statement is really nothing then I see talking to you was a waste of time. I hope anyone else who happens by this thread will understand that the so-called "Holy Love" ministry is one to be avoided.

As an aside I don't know why you find it necessary to be rude and attempt to talk down to others. It just makes you look bad.

 

My "take-away" was that this PR was not "condemned" as you wished others to wrongly accept. ... Like the myriad of other private revelations that have not been condemned and remained in what is considered a pretty neutral position. All are abiding by the advisories. Why are you afraid to have that added information placed on the record? Everyone should be given a fair judgement based on the whole.

I, at least, don't throw around pretty shock type misinformation like "condemned", expecting people to simply fold at that. I don't like it when persons who are not around to defend themselves get "politely" disparaged by the seeming "anointed" when there is more to the context than what is conveniently being left out.

And I'm not "playing down" anything by simply adding information that hasn't been included. That's another reactive ploy to discourage others from considering all conditions involved in something.

 

I honestly don't even know what to say to you. Your portrayal of me as somehow trying to strong arm people, mislead them and seeing myself as some kind of "anointed" one is ridiculously far from reality. I don't know what conversation you were in, but evidently it was not the same one I was in.

Just because the Bishop did not use the word condemned does not lessen the fact that you are backing something that he has had experts look into and have found not to be of supernatural origin and he has told the clergy and laity to stay away from. We can quibble about wording if you want, but the fact is these are on the "stay away" list.

I don't care for you manner, rudeness or personal attacks. They are petty, unbecoming and not worthy of further discussion. All I was doing was alerting people to spiritual dangers. You may disagree with me, but your method of debate leaves much to be desired.

I've said what I had to. LTTW and especially the "Holy Love" ministry are ones to be avoided. You can post additional rude comments about me if you wish. I won't be back.