I think I will shoot onto talking about the Dark Night itself. To do so I think I will talk of my own experiences before and after and it will make it a little interesting as I go along. Of course, I suppose most Catholics have read a little about the Dark Night of the Soul at one time or another. Certainly anyone who9 has read anything much about prayer. But I think it is very,very much one thing to read up on it ;quite another to experince it at it first hand, especially over a very long period. Its the same thing for writers on the subject, some talk the talk others have walked the walk. Its best to heed those who have been there, done that. One sample on it from the poetry of the English Jesuit poet , who went through the heap, Gerald Manley Hopkins. 45. ‘I wake and feel the fell of dark, not day’ I WAKE and feel the fell of dark, not day. What hours, O what black hoürs we have spent This night! what sights you, heart, saw; ways you went! And more must, in yet longer light’s delay. With witness I speak this. But where I say 5 Hours I mean years, mean life. And my lament Is cries countless, cries like dead letters sent To dearest him that lives alas! away. I am gall, I am heartburn. God’s most deep decree Bitter would have me taste: my taste was me; 10 Bones built in me, flesh filled, blood brimmed the curse. Selfyeast of spirit a dull dough sours. I see The lost are like this, and their scourge to be As I am mine, their sweating selves; but worse.
At the time the Dark Night came I was happy a smile in the monastery. Being in a monastery with the mass and offices I would have had to spend several hours a day praying anyway
My spiritual director recommended it Bobby. It is the best book on the subject I have ever read. Not only has the writer gone through the mill himself, but he has obviously been given great wisdon, has read and studied a life time and knows how to write. It's not only good for the Night itself but anytime we are down in the Spirtual Dumps.
Another book I cannot recommend highly enough is, 'The Mystical Evolution', by a Portugese Theologian, a Dominican , Fr Arintero. Fr Arintero knew his stuff and his cause is going forward in Rome for sainthood. 'There is no other book quite like The Mystical Evolution. Not only does it explain in profound and intimate detail the nature of the supernatural life in all its glorious ramifications for Christians in general, but it also recites a lived and familiar lexicon of the sometimes torturous steps of the spiritual life, as the individual sees it, while progressing through the famous three ways. The Mystical Evolution is unique because it is thorough and because it is written by one who both knows intellectually whereof he speaks, but at the same time has experienced the subject of his writing over a long period. (In fact, Father Arintero's sanctity has led to promotion of his cause.) Unlike most writers of spirituality, the author quotes copiously from the Bible, the Fathers and Doctors of the Church, making this virtually a mystical encyclopedia. The magnitude of this book is exhaustive, its discussion minutely informative, and its style common, so that anyone can understand. The spiritually oriented reader will dwell long and rich reward in the pages and amidst the thought of Father John Arintero.'
Padraig - wouldn't purgatory be 'the dark night of the soul' beyond this life? I only suffered the dark night for short periods and to be honest it felt more like a punishment from God as initially I did not understand what was going on. Thank God I found you on this forum because you were able to help me greatly to get through it but it was the toughest things I have ever encountered in my life and challenged me 'beyond belief' [one even begins to question ones sanity!]. Boy it is a tough station! But makes me realize that the spiritual life is real and conversion must occur on this side of eternal life if we want to avoid a really serious purgatory. And I admire you Padraig so much because you endured that state for years. My hat off to you as you are one tough cookie
There seems to be a similarity with the Warning of Garabandal and this thread on the Dark Night. Perhaps the suffering experienced after the revelation of sins will be like a 'dark night' of the senses for many people - hence Conchita said it would 'resemble a punishment'. First, a World-Wide Warning that will happen in the sky...like the collision of two stars that do not fall down... it will frighten all humanity regardless of where one happens to be at the time... it will be a thousand times worse than earthquakes... like a fire that will not burn our flesh ... it will last a very short time, although to us it will seem to be a very long time ... no one can prevent it from happening ... It will be recognized as coming from God... it will resemble a punishment ... it is meant to be a purification ... like the revelation of our sins and what we will feel in our hearts will be worse than sorrow. It will not kill us, if we die it will be caused by the emotion within us. The date was not revealed only that it will happen before the announcement of the miracle. Padraig - I hope your sever can cope with the demand after the Warning
Padraig - wouldn't purgatory be 'the dark night of the soul' beyond this life? This is very much speculative {your guess in as good as mine) kinda stuff but I'll give my opinion for what it is worth. Our Jewish forebears had ritual cleansing this being symbloic of the ascent to holiness, the perfect cleansing before entering the loving, terrible fire of love of God Himslef, the inner sanctum the Holy of Holies the sight of the living God, before nothing can stand that is not wholly pure. Psalm 24 ... 3 Who may ascend the mountain of the Lord? Who may stand in his holy place? 4 The one who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not trust in an idol or swear by a false god.[a] If this is true then the only one who can stand in the presence of G0d is the one who has been burnt and immolated in the black fires of love to be an acceptable and living sacrifice burnt in these loving fires either in this life of the life to come. There can be no other way. I also think that the Illumination of Conscinece is a portion of the Dark Night, though a substantial one in that we shall our sins as God sees us. But that is only a first step. Having seen our sins we must then be purged of them . May evil people having seen their sins will refuse to repent and will in fact as a consequence of ignoring this great grace become a hundred times more evil that they were to start with ; for 'For those to whom much has been given much will be demanded'.
It is hard to believe that people could be so hard of heart but they will have no excuse - they will be like the fallen angels - demoniacs
St Paul talks about, 'The mystery of Iniquity', even today bofre the Illumination', some of the things people are getting up to are totally mind boggling. Evil and good will never really understand each other. A mystery.
When a person has a mental breakdown, their live continuously flashes before their eyes, a bit like watching a movie of their own life. This is what the mini-judgement will be like, for those who have had very colorful and unrepentant lives up until this point, will be very broken people afterwards and will need a lot of support and compassion. Some will die of fright! This statement in itself will let you see how awful it is going to be for some,none of us will escape it, for we are all sinners. But it will be much worse for those who haven't used this time of grace well. For those of us who have converted and are still in the process of conversion (for this is ongoing) we will be expected to be a support and help for others. There are some who have already had this mini-judgement. God in His wisdom is waiting for the balance and the perfect time for this warning.
Mary's Child, That is such a good quote. I believe that also. Its torture! Surely God will grant his grace and mercy to those who ask...
Oh absolutely, Our Good Lord will never with hold His grace and mercy from anyone who asks. You know, as awful as it is. It kind of reminds me of when a parent has just been pushed way over the top, and they say... "O.K. this is your very last chance!"
I don't think or remember experiencing a dark night. I do know that all those times I was feeling abandoned, angry, bitter or far away was because I HAD TURNED MY BACK and or if I had not turned my back, I knew He was near....he always was and has been. I always believed it to be a 'valley' and soon there would be a mountain... Padarig, have you ever grieved? Like in grieving the death of a loved one? THAT is hard. THAT is a dark night to me.
Grief like that is indeed a dark night. As is persecution. As is the loss of a child. As is (in Mother Theresa's case) when you are constantly amongst sorrow.. Dark nights come in many forms. Times when one is away from God doing their own thing, are not dark nights as such. Dark nights are when God draws back from a soul, when one no longer can rely on the warm fuzzy feeling of faith, or the platitudes no longer work, and when everything in us cries out that God doesn't exist, our whole body, even the uncertainty in our mind, and we are left with one stark choice. Do I believe Christ or don't I. A dark night, is no experience of joy when one prays even when ones heart is right with God. If one's heart isn't right with God this is the soul grieving the loss of God through it's own doing and that is something else. I have found, that the dark night either comes from God drawing back, or circumstances in one's life bringing about this same spiritual drought. It is more than a dryness, it is praying through the dryness, and doing everything and still nothing, No consolation, no peace, nothing!!! This happens in awful grief too. Sorry, I don't even know if I am making sense here. Some experience the dark night because their soul is crushed. St Thomas experienced the dark night through His grief, also all the other apostles Christ had appeared to, except him, he had to wait another 8 days. Mother Mary would have experienced the dark night a few times. When she lost Jesus in the temple. At the presentation of Jesus when she heard Simeon's prophecy, and of course at Christ's passion. Suffering can and does bring about the dark night. It also detaches a soul from the world
in my dark nights, I can't even read jolly spiritual books, I need deep spiritual books, and only certain ones, ones that can reach to the depths of myself. Anything other than this is just an aversion to me.
Marti, My brother Cormac, (26) his wife Teresa (26) and their daughter Shona (2) all died together in a car crash . I went to the morgue to identify the bodies. I remebr the Doctor pulling of the plastic sheet and looking at them . It had been a very bad crash and they were all very badly broken up. I went into shock.Even so, such anguish pales, compared to the deepest parts of the Night. We do not talk of the fires of Purgatory without good reason. I have been tortured, I have lost loved ones and watched them die, I have been imprisoned and beaten and wlaked in hells of lonelines and hatred and pain but they do not even begin to compare with the Night. However I would carefully distinguish between periods of anguish and pain (and I have known many such) and the actual Dark Night itself. The Dark night is a once only occurence, usually lasting sevral years (sometimes 20 or more years sometimes right up to death). It is esentially spiritual in nature and is very ,very different from say, clinical depression, grief, anguish feeling down or whatever. There is no real such thing as , 'Dark Nights' you go into the mixer and you don't come out. Though there may be very brief respites. Many people often speak of bad times as , 'Dark Nights';. Fair enough; but no matter how badly we feel this is not THE Dark Night of the soul. The Dark Night is a singular once only transformative event. Another mistake many people make with the Night is to confuse this with periods, even very long periods of spiritual dryness or apathy. I would say one of the characteristics of people going through the Night is the poor folk don't really accept they are going through it. They suspect they are crazy, or imagining it, or are depressed or whatever. This even if their own Spiritual Director tells them over and over that it is not so. THe Dark Night is like nothing else, it is the soul getting burnt at its very deepest level by the black fires of love and being thereby transformed. For me one of the surest signs a soul was not going through the Dark Night would be, ironically , if a person told me they were. THe last thing a soul going through this would really believe is that they were in it. The esence of the suffering of the Night is that it appears pointless, so we cry with Christ, 'My GOd my God why have you forsaken me?' Now if a soul thought itslef in the Night it would not drink the chalice to the dregs, for suffering, if they believed themselves in the Night. For if they knew were they were it would aquire meaning. The sword in the heart is that what they are going through appears random and meaningless. This is drinking the chalice dry.
Does it feel like your soul is in shreds Padraig? This is what I have been experiencing for a good few years now, it is horrendous. I have been trying to make sense of it.
The only thing that cures this pain or helps this pain is being with God, Is that what I am experiencing or is it something else? The pain is indescribable, my soul is wounded to great depths. I pray I go to Mass, I meditate, I keep accusing myself that I must be doing something awfully wrong to have this pain, because if I really believed that He loved me then it wouldn't be there. I have never known a pain like this.. Is that what this is? Or something completely different?
My consolation is in the mass and prayer, this pain lessens. I am starving all the time. I hunger for the Word of God all the time. I am continuously hungry and thirsty
