Many religions, 'Willed by God'?

Discussion in 'Pope Francis' started by padraig, Feb 6, 2019.

  1. padraig

    padraig Powers

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/p...aiming-diversity-of-religions-is-willed-by-go

    Pope Francis under fire for claiming ‘diversity of religions’ is ‘willed by God’

    [​IMG]

    ROME, February 5, 2019 (LifeSiteNews) — Pope Francis has incited further controversy by signing a joint statement with a Grand Imam, saying that a “pluralism and diversity” of religions is “willed by God.”

    The Pope signed the “Document on Human Fraternity for World Peace and Living Together,” with Ahmad el-Tayeb, Grand Imam of Egypt’s al-Azhar Mosque, during an interreligious meeting in Abu Dhabi on Monday.

    The Feb. 4 event was part of Pope Francis’s three-day apostolic visit to the United Arab Emirates. The historic journey marked the first time a Roman Pontiff has visited the Arabian Peninsula, and was intended to promote interreligious dialogue and support the country’s considerable Catholic minority.

    The document on Human Fraternity invites “all persons who have faith in God and faith in human fraternity to unite and work together so that it may serve as a guide for future generations to advance a culture of mutual respect in the awareness of the great divine grace that makes all human beings brothers and sisters.”

    The passage inciting controversy reads:

    Freedom is a right of every person: each individual enjoys the freedom of belief, thought, expression and action. The pluralism and the diversity of religions, colour, sex, race and language are willed by God in His wisdom, through which He created human beings. This divine wisdom is the source from which the right to freedom of belief and the freedom to be different derives. Therefore, the fact that people are forced to adhere to a certain religion or culture must be rejected, as too the imposition of a cultural way of life that others do not accept.

    God’s “permissive will”?
    In a Feb. 5 article in the Catholic Herald, Dr. Chad Pecknold, associate professor of systematic theology at Catholic University of America in Washington, D.C., sought to downplay the controversial passage, saying it must be read in its proper context and perspective.

    “The idea that God wills the diversity of color, sex, race and language is easily understood, but some may find it puzzling to hear the Vicar of Christ talk about God willing the diversity of religions,” he said.

    Pecknold said the passage “is puzzling and potentially problematic.” But he maintained that, in the context of the document, “the Holy Father is clearly referring not to the evil of many false religions, but positively refers to the diversity of religions only in the sense that they are evidence of our natural desire to know God.”

    “God wills that all men come to know Him through the free choice of their will, and so it follows that a diversity of religions can be spoken about as permissively willed by God without denying the supernatural good of one true religion,” Pecknold added.

    Fr. Z also weighed in on his blog, saying “we must seek a way to understand this without it sounding like heresy.” He argued that if we read the passage to mean there are a multiplicity of religons “by God’s permissive will,” the statement is “acceptable.”

    A Dominican theologian responds
    But in comments today to LifeSite, a Dominican theologian who wished to remain anonymous said the controversial passage “in its obvious sense is false, and in fact heretical.”

    “The various religions say incompatible things about who God is and how He wants to be worshipped. Therefore they cannot all be true. Therefore God, who is truth, cannot will all religions,” he explained.

    Responding to those who are defending the Pope’s statement by invoking God’s “permissive will,” the Dominican theologian said:

    God permits non-Catholic religions to exist; but permitting something is not a way of willing it, it is a way of not willing to prevent it. Thus God permits many innocent people to be killed, but He does not will it. We would not talk about God’s permissive will for Jews to be gassed, for example.

    The Dominican said he found Dr. Pecknold’s reading of the text “a strained and unnatural interpretation.”

    “You might as well say that someone who said that gassing Jews was good only meant that it is good that we have the chemical and physiological knowledge that makes it possible,” he said.

    He said “the problem with Fr Z’s interpretation is the reference to religions comes in a list of other things that God does will (and doesn’t simply permit), such as sexes, colors and races.”

    “Even the diversity of languages, though originally a punishment was willed and caused by God,” the theologian noted. “But the diversity of religions is due to sin and so is not willed and caused by God. We can say that it ‘comes under His Providence,’ but then so does everything, even the worst crimes.”

    Another controversial passage?
    The Dominican theologian went a step further, however, and pointed out another equally problematic, yet overlooked, statement in the document on Human Fraternity — this time on faith.

    The opening paragraph of the document reads:

    Faith leads a believer to see in the other a brother or sister to be supported and loved. Through faith in God, who has created the universe, creatures and all human beings (equal on account of his mercy), believers are called to express this human fraternity by safeguarding creation and the entire universe and supporting all persons, especially the poorest and those most in need.

    “It is contrary to the Church’s way of speaking to use the phrase ‘faith in God’ to mean ‘affirming that God exists,’ or ‘believing in any kind of alleged revelation, even a non-Christian one,” the Dominican theologian explained.

    “Faith,” he said, “is the virtue through which God moves us to assent to what He has revealed through the Old Testament prophets and the New Testament apostles, and most of all through His Son.”

    “People who believe in non-Christian religions therefore do not do so by faith, as the declaration Dominus Iesus 7 points out, but by some kind of human opinion.”

    Dominus Iesus was issued by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in 2000, under then prefect Cardinal Josef Ratzinger. It reaffirmed the Church’s teaching that salvation is only found in Jesus Christ and the Church. Paragraph 7 of the document reads:

    The distinction between theological faith and belief in the other religions, must be firmly held. If faith is the acceptance in grace of revealed truth, which ‘makes it possible to penetrate the mystery in a way that allows us to understand it coherently,’ then belief, in the other religions, is that sum of experience and thought that constitutes the human treasury of wisdom and religious aspiration, which man in his search for truth has conceived and acted upon in his relationship to God and the Absolute (Dominus Iesus, 7).

    As previously discussed here on LifeSite, Vatican II allows for the possibility of extraordinary revelations to non-Christians. According to its decree on the missionary activity of the Church, “God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him” (Ad Gentes, 7).

    But the Church is equally clear that the followers of other religions do not have the faith without which it is impossible to please God.

    In other words, God can lead the inculpably ignorant through mysterious means to the true faith, but adherence to Islam or any other non-Christian religion cannot constitute this faith.
     
  2. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    Padraig, Thank you for posting this. I need to up my prayers.

    I saw the following two stories on One America News yesterday. The stories are only remotely related to the story that you posted but here they are anyway.

    Austria: White Girls Wearing Headscarves to Prevent ...
    www.infowars.com/austria-white-girls-wearing...
    February 4, 2019 · Austria: White Girls Wearing Headscarves to Prevent Harassment From Muslim Migrants ... he advised the mother to cover up her daughter with a hijab.
    upload_2019-2-6_16-12-48.png

    “Sharia Police”: Muslims Patrolling Brooklyn in Vehicles ...
    infowars.com/sharia-police-muslims-patrolling...
    February 5, 2019 · Muslims in NYC are carrying out “community patrols” in Brooklyn while driving cars that look almost identical to NYPD vehicles, leading some to describe the situation as “Sharia Police”.
    upload_2019-2-6_16-10-38.png
     
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  3. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Flat out heresy. That is like Potestants saying God brought about the Reformation or any false religion. What ever happened to "There is no salvation outside the Church"?
     
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  4. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Having been treated to a diet of BS for the past few years, we have become so conditioned to it that when it hits the fan some lap it up and call it ice cream; others say it only appears to be BS but is really ice cream once you look past the brown colour, hold your nose and taste it. Atheists sing its praises, telling Christians that it really is ice-cream although they won't try it because they are too old or too clever to need ice cream. And they all condemn as haters anyone saying that what looks like BS and sounds like BS is actually bovine excrement.
     
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  5. padraig

    padraig Powers

    LOL , Dolours you're a hoot. But you're spot on.

    It's kinda, 'You've got your bag, I've got mine, what the heck? We're all in this thing together you Muslim Iman, man. Chill'.

    I was a little surprised at Fr Z for giving the Holy Roman Pontiff a bye ball on this one. :)

    Actually if he (Francesco) had meant the Will of God in some passive sense then what would have been the point of saying it? It would be meaningless. I don't think Francis was deliberately or evilly heretical, he's just....well he's not plugged in, he's kinda up there floating about. If it sounds nice to say, say it man. Cool and chilled out and trying to be all things to all men and never mind Catholiic Doctrine man we gotta get along together. A kinda Woodstock Abu Dhabi style. Rock on , Chill.:)

    I try not to take Pope Francis too seriously anymore, it's bad for the blood pressure.

    Pass that joint , Iman, don't let Frankie hog it.:)
    Yeah, mean we're all in this thing together. Wow!!
    Cool Dude.
    It's not quite saying all religions are the same, it's more nor less saying we're all in this thing together man, chill.
    They must be smoking good stuff in El Vaticano.

    Of course he was in the same casual orbit in Outer Orbit with the Lutherans, if you recall.

    [​IMG]

     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
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  6. padraig

    padraig Powers

    I wouldn't even call it heresy anymore. It's like my dogs growling in their sleep, I don't take them seriously. I just kinda think to myself, 'He's at it again':)
    I just wish..well...I just wish he'd go away and leave me and everyone else alone. I just wish he'd go away somewhere and form a hippei free love commune or something.

    Far, far, far away....far, far, far away. Maybe San Francisco.?
     
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  7. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    :eek::eek::eek:
    Padraig, You are right and I must admit that do think of him as the Hippie Pope.

    For some strange reason, almost every time I think about the Pope signing this document I see the following commercial from the past playing in my head. :eek:



    :unsure:(n):(
     
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  8. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie

    nooooo....keep him outta the USA.....yikes!

    Siberia?
     
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  9. padraig

    padraig Powers

    LOl.

    That's it. Buy the world a Coke.

    Grace is free, but it's not cheap , we're bought with the Blood of the Lamb.

    We walk to heaven by the same steep road road Jesus walked to the Cross , not by a nod and a smile. Good Friday before Easter.

    Some folks never meditate on the Passion. There are no free tickets to heaven.

     
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  10. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Luke 6:26

    Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you, for that is how their ancestors treated the false prophets.

     
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  11. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    It's much much worse than many want it to be. It is just one more example of hierarchy giving us Relativism, the great heresy of our time, which invites in the Man of Sin. I don't see the language coming out of Pope Francis and others easily to be dusted off as silliness. And I am not going so far as to say he is a false prophet, but this is something I fully expect to come from such a person. It is not of God. It is appeasement to the Prince of this World that our Lady of Zaro just spoke of who is in the world. She also said, 1/26/2019 Dearly beloved children, hard times await you, and I am sad because not all of you are ready. My children, the prince of this world increasingly distracts you from graces and shows you false beauties. Now we know that Satan who was called the Man of Sin will live with the Antichrist.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
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  12. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/mobile/news/popes-claim-that-god-wills-many-religions-seems-to-overturn-gospel-church-h

    Pope’s claim that God ‘wills’ many religions seems to ‘overturn’ Gospel: Church Historian
    [​IMG]
    Dr. Ahmad el-Tayeb, Grand Imam of Al Azhar Al Sharif and Pope Francis visit Sheikh Zayed Mosque on February 4, 2019 in Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates. Francois Nel/Getty Images
    ROME, February 6, 2019 (LifeSiteNews) — Pope Francis’s statement in Abu Dhabi on religious pluralism being “willed by God” — and his call to Christians and Muslims to enter the “ark of fraternity” — seem not only to “overturn the doctrine of the Gospel” but also to align with the ideas of Freemasonry, a respected Italian historian has said.

    In comments to LifeSite (see full text below), Professor Roberto de Mattei, Founder and President of the Rome-based Lepanto Foundation, also said the Pope’s recent statements appear to be in discontinuity with the Fourth Lateran Council and with papal teaching from Gregory XVI to Pius XI.

    The Pope came under fire on Monday for signing the “Document on Human Fraternity for World Peace and Living Together,” with Ahmad el-Tayeb, Grand Imam of Egypt’s al-Azhar Mosque, during an interreligious meeting in Abu Dhabi.

    The joint statement incited controversy among Christians for asserting that “the pluralism and the diversity of religions, color, sex, race and language are willed by God in His wisdom, through which He created human beings” — a claim many believe to be contrary to the Catholic faith.

    Earlier the same day, the Pope made what some regard as equally controversial remarks to the Muslim Council of Elders.

    Commenting on the Genesis account of Noah’s ark, the Pope told Muslim leaders: we too in the name of God, in order to safeguard peace, need to enter together as one family into an ark which can sail the stormy seas of the world: the ark of fraternity.”

    “Fraternity” has, in fact, become the new buzzword for the current pontificate.

    In his Urbi et Orbi address on Christmas Day, Pope Francis said his wish for a happy Christmas was a “wish for fraternity.”

    The new year then opened with the editor-in-chief of the Osservatore Romano, Andrea Monda, announcing that “fraternity” is the “word of hope” for 2019. And terms such as “fraternity” and “the human community” have featured prominently in recent Vatican statements, most notably in the Pope’s letter to the Pontifical Academy for Life.

    In light of recent events, LifeSiteNews asked Prof. de Mattei for his thoughts on Pope Francis’s statements in Abu Dhabi, the current pontificate’s new emphasis on “fraternity,” and its meaning within Freemasonry.

    Advertisement
    According to de Mattei, when “fraternity” is divorced from Christian charity, “far from constituting an element of cohesion in society,” it “becomes the source of its disintegration.” He also argues that “if men, in the name of fraternity, are forced to live together without an end that gives meaning to their sense of belonging, the ‘ark’ becomes a prison.”

    The Italian historian also reminds readers that “Freemasonry continues to be condemned by the Church, even if the men of the Church, at the highest levels, seem to embrace its ideas.”

    Here below is the full text of Prof. Roberto de Mattei’s comments to LifeSite.

    ***

    Read the rest at the link
     
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  13. Katfalls

    Katfalls Powers

    It seems so "new agey" to me. Like a one world religion kind of thing.
     
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  14. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

  15. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pope-francis-under-fire-for-claiming-diversity-of-religions-is-willed-by-go

    Pope Francis under fire for claiming ‘diversity of religions’ is ‘willed by God’
    Diane Montagna
    [​IMG]
    Pope Francis and Ahmad el-Tayeb, Grand Imam of Egypt's al-Azhar mosque, pay homage at the tomb of the Founders, Abu Dhabi, Feb. 4, 2019 Copyright Holy See Press Office
    [​IMG]Follow Diane
    ROME, February 5, 2019 (LifeSiteNews) — Pope Francis has incited further controversy by signing a joint statement with a Grand Imam, saying that a “pluralism and diversity” of religions is “willed by God.”

    The Pope signed the “Document on Human Fraternity for World Peace and Living Together,” with Ahmad el-Tayeb, Grand Imam of Egypt’s al-Azhar Mosque, during an interreligious meeting in Abu Dhabi on Monday.

    The Feb. 4 event was part of Pope Francis’s three-day apostolic visit to the United Arab Emirates. The historic journey marked the first time a Roman Pontiff has visited the Arabian Peninsula, and was intended to promote interreligious dialogue and support the country’s considerable Catholic minority.

    The document on Human Fraternity invites “all persons who have faith in God and faith in human fraternity to unite and work together so that it may serve as a guide for future generations to advance a culture of mutual respect in the awareness of the great divine grace that makes all human beings brothers and sisters.”

    The passage inciting controversy reads:

    Freedom is a right of every person: each individual enjoys the freedom of belief, thought, expression and action. The pluralism and the diversity of religions, colour, sex, race and language are willed by God in His wisdom, through which He created human beings. This divine wisdom is the source from which the right to freedom of belief and the freedom to be different derives. Therefore, the fact that people are forced to adhere to a certain religion or culture must be rejected, as too the imposition of a cultural way of life that others do not accept.

    God’s “permissive will”?
    In a Feb. 5 article in the Catholic Herald, Dr. Chad Pecknold, associate professor of systematic theology at Catholic University of America in Washington, D.C., sought to downplay the controversial passage, saying it must be read in its proper context and perspective.

    “The idea that God wills the diversity of color, sex, race and language is easily understood, but some may find it puzzling to hear the Vicar of Christ talk about God willing the diversity of religions,” he said.

    Pecknold said the passage “is puzzling and potentially problematic.” But he maintained that, in the context of the document, “the Holy Father is clearly referring not to the evil of many false religions, but positively refers to the diversity of religions only in the sense that they are evidence of our natural desire to know God.”

    “God wills that all men come to know Him through the free choice of their will, and so it follows that a diversity of religions can be spoken about as permissively willed by God without denying the supernatural good of one true religion,” Pecknold added.

    Fr. Z also weighed in on his blog, saying “we must seek a way to understand this without it sounding like heresy.” He argued that if we read the passage to mean there are a multiplicity of religons “by God’s permissive will,” the statement is “acceptable.”

    A Dominican theologian responds
    But in comments today to LifeSite, a Dominican theologian who wished to remain anonymous said the controversial passage “in its obvious sense is false, and in fact heretical.”

    “The various religions say incompatible things about who God is and how He wants to be worshipped. Therefore they cannot all be true. Therefore God, who is truth, cannot will all religions,” he explained.

    Responding to those who are defending the Pope’s statement by invoking God’s “permissive will,” the Dominican theologian said:

    God permits non-Catholic religions to exist; but permitting something is not a way of willing it, it is a way of not willing to prevent it. Thus God permits many innocent people to be killed, but He does not will it. We would not talk about God’s permissive will for Jews to be gassed, for example.

    The Dominican said he found Dr. Pecknold’s reading of the text “a strained and unnatural interpretation.”

    “You might as well say that someone who said that gassing Jews was good only meant that it is good that we have the chemical and physiological knowledge that makes it possible,” he said.

    He said “the problem with Fr Z’s interpretation is the reference to religions comes in a list of other things that God does will (and doesn’t simply permit), such as sexes, colors and races.”

    “Even the diversity of languages, though originally a punishment was willed and caused by God,” the theologian noted. “But the diversity of religions is due to sin and so is not willed and caused by God. We can say that it ‘comes under His Providence,’ but then so does everything, even the worst crimes.”

    Another controversial passage?
    The Dominican theologian went a step further, however, and pointed out another equally problematic, yet overlooked, statement in the document on Human Fraternity — this time on faith.

    The opening paragraph of the document reads:

    Faith leads a believer to see in the other a brother or sister to be supported and loved. Through faith in God, who has created the universe, creatures and all human beings (equal on account of his mercy), believers are called to express this human fraternity by safeguarding creation and the entire universe and supporting all persons, especially the poorest and those most in need.

    “It is contrary to the Church’s way of speaking to use the phrase ‘faith in God’ to mean ‘affirming that God exists,’ or ‘believing in any kind of alleged revelation, even a non-Christian one,” the Dominican theologian explained.

    “Faith,” he said, “is the virtue through which God moves us to assent to what He has revealed through the Old Testament prophets and the New Testament apostles, and most of all through His Son.”

    “People who believe in non-Christian religions therefore do not do so by faith, as the declaration Dominus Iesus 7 points out, but by some kind of human opinion.”

    Dominus Iesus was issued by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in 2000, under then prefect Cardinal Josef Ratzinger. It reaffirmed the Church’s teaching that salvation is only found in Jesus Christ and the Church. Paragraph 7 of the document reads:

    The distinction between theological faith and belief in the other religions, must be firmly held. If faith is the acceptance in grace of revealed truth, which ‘makes it possible to penetrate the mystery in a way that allows us to understand it coherently,’ then belief, in the other religions, is that sum of experience and thought that constitutes the human treasury of wisdom and religious aspiration, which man in his search for truth has conceived and acted upon in his relationship to God and the Absolute (Dominus Iesus, 7).

    As previously discussed here on LifeSite, Vatican II allows for the possibility of extraordinary revelations to non-Christians. According to its decree on the missionary activity of the Church, “God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him” (Ad Gentes, 7).

    But the Church is equally clear that the followers of other religions do not have the faith without which it is impossible to please God.

    In other words, God can lead the inculpably ignorant through mysterious means to the true faith, but adherence to Islam or any other non-Christian religion cannot constitute this faith.
     
    Heidi likes this.
  16. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Yes, it is new agey. While we know that we can assent to every dogma and doctrine, and adhere to every rule, if we don't have love we won't get to Heaven. The problem is that Pope Francis seems to be trying to re-define the meaning of love. I don't see a whole lot of difference between the Pope's message and this:



    Pope Francis and some of his weird pronouncements tend to bring this to mind:





    Perhaps there's something in the Vatican's water?
     
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  17. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    It's even worse. It is PURE FREEMASONRY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is what Freemasonry teaches, pure and simple. One cannot explain away what he has said with this statement and signing of this devil document. Father Gobbi warned about Ecclesiastical Freemasonry over and again through our Lady's messages.
     
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  18. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I totally agree.
     
    AED likes this.
  19. Tanker

    Tanker Powers

    I thought the same thing about his statement. When I read it I said, "Wow, the pope sure is dragging us into a one world religion fest". Ugh!!
     
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  20. padraig

    padraig Powers

    In the real world many of the clerics Islamic clerics Pope Francis had the love fest with are not so very loving themselves.

    https://cruxnow.com/news-analysis/2...rocess-why-not-name-the-elephant-in-the-room/

    https://catholicmonitor.blogspot.com/2019/02/francis-betrays-christians-by-embracing.html?m=1

    For instance his, 'Great friend', Sheikh Ahmed al-Tayeb:

    'Sheikh Ahmed al-Tayeb, whom Pope Francis embraced and just co-signed a so-called "religious freedom" document, has declared that Christian converts should be "killed" on his daily Muslim television show:

    "[T]he apostate [Christian convert] must either renounce his apostasy or else be killed."
    (Raymond Ibrahim.com, "Egypt's Top 'Moderate' Cleric: Apostasy a 'Crime' Punishable by Death," 6-24-2016)

    The Sheikh has a history of saying different things to Western and Muslim audiences.

    To Muslims he says "kill" Christian converts.

    It appears that Francis is betraying Christians by embracing al-Tayeb.'





    [​IMG]
     
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