Another good episode of the World Over, Here is another nice memory of Bishop Morlino, *** Michael Voris is suggesting to completely clean house, Edited to add: This is almost a part 2 to the above Vortex video, Afterthought: Without a divine intervention like the Warning, the renewal of the Church is not going to be something that occurs very quickly just like there is no quick fix for this papacy as Praetorian has stated. I still feel better about making continuous donations to a trusted Catholic Charity as opposed to the ChurchMilitant but I think I'll make a one time donation in appreciation for their efforts or maybe an annual subscription for $120 to become a Premium member.
The comments on the following article are probably similar to what many here would say. Hopefully, this is not simply lip service but it doesn't match up with some of things that are occurring including the comments of the Vatican approved Father James Martin. We'll see on Monday when this book is released in English what else Pope Francis has stated on this subject and we'll learn more from the February synod how the pope intends on going forward. The time is approaching to pay the piper as some say. Please keep the prayers up. Pope Francis (Daniel Ibáñez/CNA) Vatican | Dec. 1, 2018 | http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/in-new-book-pope-francis-addresses-homosexuality-and-the-clergy In New Book, Pope Francis Addresses Homosexuality and the Clergy In an excerpt from the book, released Friday by Religión Digital, the Pope said he is concerned about the issue of evaluating and forming people with homosexual tendencies in the clergy and consecrated life. Catholic News Agency VATICAN CITY — In a book-length interview to be published next week, Pope Francis addressed gifts and challenges for clerical and religious vocations, among them the challenge of homosexuality in the clergy. “The issue of homosexuality is a very serious issue that must be adequately discerned from the beginning with the candidates, if that is the case. We have to be exacting. In our societies it even seems that homosexuality is fashionable and that mentality, in some way, also influences the life of the Church,” the Pope says in the book The Strength of a Vocation, set to be released Dec. 3 in 10 languages. In an excerpt from the book, released Friday by Religión Digital, the Pope said he is concerned about the issue of evaluating and forming people with homosexual tendencies in the clergy and consecrated life. “This is something I am concerned about, because perhaps at one time it did not receive much attention,” he said. Francis said that with candidates for the priesthood or religious life “we have to take great care during formation in the human and affective maturity. We have to seriously discern, and listen to the voice of experience that the Church also has. When care is not taken in discerning all of this, problems increase. As I said before, it can happen that at the time perhaps they didn't exhibit [that tendency], but later on it comes out.” “The issue of homosexuality is a very serious issue that must be adequately discerned from the beginning with the candidates, if that is the case,” the Pope reiterated. Francis recalled that one time “I had a somewhat scandalized bishop here who told me that he had found out that in his diocese, a very large diocese, there were several homosexual priests and that he had to deal with all that, intervening, above all, in the formation process, to form a different group of clergy.” “It's a reality we can't deny. There is no lack of cases in the consecrated life either. A religious told me that, on a canonical visit to one of the provinces in his congregation, he was surprised. He saw that there were good young students and even some already professed religious who were gay,” he said. The Pope said that the religious “wondered if it were an issue and asked me if there was something wrong with that. Francis said he was told by one religious superior that the issue was not “that serious, it's just an expression of an affection.” “That's a mistake,” Francis warned. “It's not just an expression of an affection. In consecrated and priestly life, there's no room for that kind of affection. Therefore, the Church recommends that people with that kind of ingrained tendency should not be accepted into the ministry or consecrated life. The ministry or the consecrated life is not his place.” We “have to urge homosexual priests, and men and women religious to live celibacy with integrity, and above all, that they be impeccably responsible, trying to never scandalize either their communities or the faithful holy people of God by living a double life. It's better for them to leave the ministry or the consecrated life rather than to live a double life.” The Pope was asked in the book if there are limits to what can be tolerated in formation. “Of course. When there are candidates with neurosis, marked imbalances, difficult to channel not even with therapeutic help, they shouldn't be accepted to either the priesthood or the religious life, They should be helped to take another direction (but they should not be abandoned. They should be guided, but they should not be admitted. Let us always bear in mind that they are persons who are going to live in the service of the Church, of the Christian community, of the people of God. Let's not forget that perspective. We have to care for them so they are psychologically and affectively healthy,” the pope replied. The book is the transcript of an interview conducted by Fr. Fernando Prado, director of the Claretian publishing house in Madrid. This article was originally published by our sister agency, ACI Prensa. It has been translated and adapted by CNA.
I'll believe this when I see him do something real. Words are cheap. At this point, this is all just doublespeak meant to try to pacify those left who are still unsure into submission. To make us confused and hope that this is all somehow "Catholic". Same-sex attracted individuals are not allowed to become priests. That is the law of the Church. Period! And for very good reasons. To avoid the type of debacle the Church is currently in. You can't say this and then promote Fr. Martin and his ilk. Doublespeak is the hallmark of this papacy.
Unless the actions match the words then I'm sorry but this book is the equivalent of saying "Take one of these and call me in the morning..."
Perhaps you are right and I am wrong. The sacramental and procedural qualities must be distinguished, however. While you present a strong case against the use of formal terminology and habitation, the the official title of Saint Karol Wojtyla, for example, seems to be 'Pope Saint John Paul II'. The latter might not have any administrative duties in Heaven, but he still seems to retain the papal title. On the other hand, I have never heard anyone refer to Pope Saint Peter. We may have to agree, both of us in good faith, to disagree. It's just more of the appalling confusion of the times we are living in, God help us.
If I'd been in a coma, God forbid, since the evening of Pope Francis' election and woke up to read this, I'd have immediately come to the conclusion that we'd got a truly great pope and would have assumed the Church was recovering Herself to rude health. Subsequent information would have quickly driven me back into the coma, I fear. Flippancy aside, I continue to hope that the prayers of the Militant Faithful, not to mention those of the Church Triumphant, will revert Pope Francis to his proper Catholic Faith. I refuse to deny the possibility of a miracle. It could yet happen. We do have before us a situation where the emboldened homosexualist tendency has exposed itself to the light in a way never before seen. We know who many of them are and where many of the bodies are buried. They are all complacently confident that Pope Francis is their benefactor. I pray that good Cardinal Mueller has got wind of a sea-change and that the homosexualists' benefactor is about to turn on them. Please, Lord Jesus, King of Kings, and Your Holy Mother, let this be. This might not happen, at all. We don't trust Pope Francis and rightly so. Nonetheless, the words quoted are exceptionally coherent and unambiguous. They are written words and apparently the irrefutable words of Pope Francis himself. I can't help part of me being somewhat heartened. There is another part of me now bracing me for some appalling doctrinal outrage. God forbid.
Let us pray and hope that, one fine day, our prayers will be answered in the manner that we would wish.
I totally agree. Actions speak louder than words. Words, even those that tickle the ears, mean nothing when one continues on the path of destruction. To many words have been spoken that confuse. To many actions have been done that cross the line. I am ready to follow our "leader" and anyone who shows by their actions that they turn away from bad acts, words and deeds. But so long as Pope Francis remains silent to the Dubia and Archbishop Vigino's statements he is just buying time, no matter what else he has said or written. As for me and my house, we will continue to pray for him, but not trust him till his actions/words speak with what has always been held. If indeed these words, allegedly spoken by Pope Francis in a book are true, whey does he not come out with an official pronouncement himself? These words in the this book are nothing like he has spoken or supported before. When he speaks these words in a more official way, I will give pause to my reservations, but until then it seems to me to be another smoke screen.
Blizzard, We could have a whole thread on this word and I have often thought of starting one. P., Yes, "you say tomato and I say..." *** To clarify, OR it's the moment the Attorney General ceases all of your records exposing how you have been covering up payoffs and all sorts of illegal activity.
Um, a, yeah....just where has he been all these decades? A "fashion"? Gay 'trend' influencing the Catholic clergy: Pope Vatican City (AFP) - Pope Francis is "concerned" about what he described as the "serious issue" of homosexuality, saying in an interview published Saturday that being gay was a "fashion" to which the clergy is suspectible. "The issue of homosexuality is a very serious issue that must be adequately discerned from the beginning with the candidates," the pontiff said with regards to would-be priests. "In our societies it even seems that homosexuality is fashionable and that mentality, in some way, also influences the life of the church," he says in the book 'The Strength of a Vocation', released in Italy on Saturday. "This is something I am concerned about, because perhaps at one time it did not receive much attention," he said in the book, a transcript of an interview which will be released in ten languages. The Roman Catholic Church's position is that homosexual acts are sinful and the pontiff's stance on homosexuality in the clergy is not new. A decree on training for Roman Catholic priests in 2016 stressed the obligation of sexual abstinence, as well as barring gays and those who support "gay culture" from holy orders. The barring of people who present homosexual tendencies was first stipulated by the Catholic Church in 2005. - 'Impeccably responsible' - "It can happen that at the time perhaps they didn't exhibit [that tendency], but later on it comes out," Francis said. "In consecrated and priestly life, there's no room for that kind of affection. Therefore, the Church recommends that people with that kind of ingrained tendency should not be accepted into the ministry or consecrated life. "The ministry or the consecrated life is not his place," the Argentine added. Gay clergy were urged to be "impeccably responsible" in a warning over bad behaviour that was notable for its silence on heterosexual clergy who break their vow of celibacy. We "have to urge homosexual priests, and men and women religious, to live celibacy with integrity, and above all, that they be impeccably responsible, trying to never scandalise either their communities or the faithful holy people of God. "It's better for them to leave the ministry or the consecrated life rather than to live a double life," Francis said. In 2013, just months after assuming the papacy, Francis said: "If someone is gay and is searching for the Lord and has good will, then who am I to judge him?", signifying a softer tone on homosexuality. https://www.yahoo.com/news/gay-trend-influencing-catholic-clergy-pope-180106819.html
It seems we keeping inching closer and closer to the pope taking a trip to Moscow, Pope Francis calls for unity with Orthodox Churches Pope Francis and Patriarch Bartholomew I in Greece, April 16, 2016. Credit: L'Osservatore Romano. https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-francis-calls-for-unity-with-orthodox-churches-13446 Vatican City, Nov 30, 2018 / 01:23 pm (CNA).- On the feast of St. Andrew the Apostle, Pope Francis told the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople that while the Holy Spirit has in recent years prompted a “fraternal dialogue” between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, both Churches should work to achieve full communion with one another. “While centuries of mutual misunderstanding, differences and silence may seem to have compromised [the relationship between the Catholic and Orthodox Church], the Holy Spirit, Spirit of unity, has enabled us to recommence a fraternal dialogue,” the pope wrote. “This was definitively resumed by our venerable predecessors, Patriarch Athenagoras and Pope Saint Paul VI, and has enabled us to rediscover those bonds of communion that have always existed between us.” “The search for the re-establishment of full communion is above all a response to the will of our Lord Jesus Christ, who on the eve of his Passion prayed that his disciples ‘may all be one,’” the pope added. The Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, the de facto leader of Orthodox Christianity, is believed to be the successor of St. Andrew. While the various Orthodox Churches around the world are not subject to his administrative authority, he is generally regarded as primus inter pares, or “first among equals” in relationship to the patriarchs of other Orthodox Churches. The current patriarch is Bartholomew I, who has held the position since 1991, and is widely seen to have fostered collaborative dialogue with Pope Francis and his predecessors, Pope Benedict XVI and Pope St. John Paul II. The pope’s greetings come amid a difficult year for Orthodoxy. In October, the Russian Orthodox Church, the largest of the Orthodox Churches, broke communion with the Patriarch of Constantinople, after a disagreement about the state of the Orthodox Church in Ukraine. While the Patriarch of Constantinople made moves to recognize the autonomy of the Orthodox Church in Ukraine, the Patriarchate of Moscow insisted that Orthodox Ukrainians remain subject to its jurisdiction. Russian Orthodox Christians are, by some estimates, more than half of the total number of Orthodox Christians around the world. While Pope Francis did not specifically address the Orthodox rift, he did write that “in a world wounded by conflict, the unity of Christians is a sign of hope that must radiate ever more visibly.” Pope Francis also wrote that, despite theological differences, “both Churches, with a sense of responsibility towards the world, have sensed that urgent call, which involves each of us who have been baptized, to proclaim the Gospel to all men and women. For this reason, we can work together today in the search for peace among peoples, for the abolition of all forms of slavery, for the respect and dignity of every human being and for the care of creation.” “With God’s help, through encounter and dialogue on our journey together over the last fifty years, we already experience being in communion, even though it is not yet full and complete.” *** I don't think that you'll mind that I added the following related story about Ukrainian Christians asking for prayers, Christians in Ukraine ask for prayer as tensions with Russia escalate November 26, 2018 As the Ukrainian parliament voted to introduce martial law after Russian forces seized three of its naval vessels, Christians in the country are asking for prayer and solidarity to de-escalate the conflict. ... “We don’t know all the details of what happened,” said Igor Bandura, First Vice President of the Baptist Union of Ukraine, or what are the intentions of Russian president Vladimir Putin. “But the situation is extremely serious. We are asking for your prayer for our situation in Ukraine as we believe in our Christian solidarity.” Some have noted the religious dimension of Russian actions. “The Russian Orthodox Church has broken off relations with Constantinople and is ready to defend its 'canonical territories' by any means,” said Michael Cherenkov, Mission Eurasia’s Executive Field Director. “Ukrainian Baptist churches in the occupied territories are outlawed as extremists. And in Russia itself, the persecution of evangelical believers is intensifying. All of this suggests that Russia is preparing for a big war in which the religious factor will have a major role,” Cherenkov observed. ...*** This is nicely done, Commentary: Advent is the remedy to our spiritual crisis A child lights a candle at Christmas Mass. Credit: haak78, Shutterstock by JD Flynn | https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/commentary-advent-is-the-remedy-to-our-crisis-68922 Denver, Colo., Dec 2, 2018 / 02:29 pm (CNA).- “Insincerity was an evil which sprang up within the Church from the first,” wrote Blessed John Henry Newman in 1839. “Ananias and Simon were not open opposers of the Apostles, but false brethren.” Any of us, he said, can affect a certain kind of religiosity without sincerity, any of us can be tempted to put on the trappings of faith without the interior disposition. Any of us can be tempted to give the appearance of love when, in truth, we do not love. Real faith grows when we have the humility and the honesty to profess what we really believe, to speak what we really know, and to stand before God and one another as we really are. Jesus transforms us, Newman taught, when we come before him as we are. That lesson resonates with many Catholics this year. The past six months have proven difficult. The Church faces a crisis that does not need ongoing enumeration. But it is a crisis in which sincerity has come into question, in which trust has been eroded, and in which many Catholics are no longer certain who they can believe, and what they can trust. And, for at least some Catholics, it has occasioned a crisis of faith itself. Advent is the spiritual remedy to that crisis. Advent, Pope Benedict XVI taught, is an invitation to return “to the heart of our faith, which is the mystery of Christ, the Messiah who was expected for long centuries and was born in poverty, in Bethlehem.” Christ came into the world because sin is real, and because he sets us free from sin. This Advent, we need to remember that. “In coming among us, he brought us and continues to offer us the gift of his love and his salvation,” Benedict said. Because Christ is present, Benedict said, we “may speak to him, presenting to him the suffering that afflicts us, our impatience, the questions that well up in our hearts. We may be sure that he always listens to us! And if Jesus is present...we may continue to hope, even when others can no longer assure us of any support, even when the present becomes trying.” That we are marred by sin should be no surprise. Advent reminds us that sin is defeated, in the Messiah who came into the world at Christmas, and who will come again. In fact, the trying afflictions of the present moment are exactly why Jesus has come- because sin exists in the world, even among members of the Church. It is Christ in whom we can place our trust- because Christ is the one who came into the world to defeat sin and death through his own Passion. Advent also reminds us that the Church, the Body of Christ, is human and divine, just as Christ himself is. That the holiness of the Church does not depend on the holiness of her members or ministers. That even as she must follow a path of penance and renewal, she is more than what we can see, and especially more than the headlines of recent months. There is a danger, amid the scandal of the moment, that we might reduce our vision of the Church to the sociological, that we might see only the scandal, and not the grace. Christ is present to us in and through his Church- even if actions undertaken in the Church's own name, set amid the disordering chaos of sin, are the source of our pain, or even of our despair. That is the scandalous proposition of the Gospel. Advent reminds us that the Church is Christ’s Mystical Body, and that even as her fallen humanity is on full display, she is nonetheless the sacrament of our salvation. The Church, the Body of Christ, is a source of grace, even as she is in need of grace. Jesus has come into the world, and he is coming again. He is present, even in our great difficulty. He loves as we are, and he wishes us to transform us. Advent is here. Come Lord Jesus, come. *** Edited to add the following good news since Bl. Newman is mentioned in the above article: Vatican approves second miracle for Blessed John Henry Newman Nov 28, 2018 | https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...d-miracle-for-blessed-john-henry-newman-87278
This, the unity with the orthodox Church, is what this Pope when he was Cardinal in Argentina promised he would work to do when he met with Vassula Ryden. That unity is her mission from God which has worked tirelessly for and suffered much for.
If Pope Francis desires a greater closeness with the Orthodox, perhaps that is why he is making himself be seen to change his views over particular issues that they will not tolerate.
