The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Schizophrenia is a disorder of thought. If we reject 'teachings' by a pope that contradict those of Christ Himself, the disorder is not on our part. A sane person trapped in a lunatic asylum must be strong-willed in order not to surrender to the bedlamic received view. If Pope Francis is that 'kind of a pope', this is what it is, but it is not logical to infer from this that he is not pope. You say it yourself, Blessed Anne prophesied two popes, not a pope and a non-pope.

    Your questions are reasonable, but no mortal seems to have the authority to answer them
     
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  2. Bernadette C

    Bernadette C Principalities

    This is brilliant.
    I had to laugh when he said 'ladies, children and prissy men please step out of the room.'

    But what is true and not so funny is. Our men have become much more feminine and this I blame to most of todays women who were born from the 1950s.
    When I was a young mum in the 90s, I saw how other mums would encourage their boys to do girl things, like wise girls to do boy things - I remember thinking how this was abnormal.
    Now we have a lot of prissy men and a lot of loud butch women that men are afraid of.
    But maybe I shouldn't just blame us women. The men should have been men and should have put a stop to this to make sure their sons grew to be strong men physically and mentally.
    Now I am not saying all young men are prissy today. But it is true that there are many young men who are not the men their grandfathers were.
     
  3. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Watch this Raymond Arroyo interview with Cardinal Muller. At about the 26th minute, the Cardinal makes it clear that......
    "The teaching of the Pope must always be in concordance - in identity - with the teaching of the Holy Scripture and the Apostolic Tradition and of all what the Magisterium before has said. It can not be in contradiction."​
    Cardinal Muller has summed up in those two sentences how the Holy Spirit protects the Church from teaching error.



    Francis isn't the first Pope to enable the spread of heresy although he is probably more blatant about it than previous popes of his ilk. Enabling the spread of heresy doesn't make him a heretic but it makes him a bad Pope. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) being a bad pope isn't enough to get him removed from office so we're stuck with him. Some people believe him to be plain evil (I have some suspicions but am not fully convinced). Not even being evil is sufficient to get him off St. Peter's chair. Perhaps if he were to publicly and explicitly deny an article of Faith, there might be some grounds to oust him, but the St. Gallen group would have covered that possibility when hatching their plans, so don't expect him to make that mistake. He always makes sure he has plausible deniability, as he did in the Fr. Inzoli case where he could honestly tell the press that he hadn't signed any document restoring Inzoli to the priesthood. He didn't mention to the press that the people he appointed to review such cases had reinstated Fr. Inzoli. Pope Francis is a Jesuit and there's a far greater likelihood of the Jesuits ordaining apostates or heretics than letting an idiot pass through their selection process.

    So, Francis is the Pope as long as the Bishops say so. Now, if someone of Cardinal Muller's calibre were to say that Francis is an Anti-Pope, that would be worthy of serious consideration. Even if Francis were declared an Anti-Pope, it wouldn't make Benedict the reigning Pope unless Benedict were to say "I made a mistake". Nobody can be forced to be Pope against his will, and it's clear that Benedict doesn't want the job.

    About 40 years after his death, Pope Honorius 1 was condemned for enabling the spread of heresy but he wasn't declared an anti-Pope. I believe that a similar verdict will be pronounced on Pope Francis and his "teachings" some time in the future although I may not live to see it. I think it was St. Sophronius who stepped up to the plate to defend the Faith at that time but Sophronius didn't try to oust Honorius. St. Sophronius was the Patriarch of Jerusalem when it fell to the Muslims, and he negotiated with the Caliph the right of Christians to worship in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. He got some blame for not recognising the threat posed by the advancing Muslims. He believed that the Arab conquest of Palestine was God's chastisement of Christians who were weak in their faith. Nothing new under the sun.
     
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  4. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Indeed. He was Bugnini's personal secretary - the sorcerer's apprentice. I don't believe his point was valid. The man who can act in persona Christi has a special role during Holy Mass and that role should be respected. In some ways, the priest facing the people led to a lack of respect for the priestly state. I suppose the "performing" priests imagine they can regain that respect by playing to the audience. That it doesn't work won't stop them trying and the more they try to be just one of the boys, the lest respect they will command.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see a trial run of having all the congregation say the words of consecration while stretching out their hands towards the host and chalice. I have a vague memory of some group having tried that but were corrected by Pope Benedict. Were they neocatechumenals or some such "charsm"?

    If everyone can "consecrate" the bread and wine, what need for a consecrated priesthood? Aren't we all a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people set apart?

    The Catechism tells us that the final deception will be one where man is exalted in place of God. Nobody said it will happen overnight.
     
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  5. SteveD

    SteveD Powers

    As I understand it, the Jesuits take an oath not to seek the office of bishop (as Ignatius Loyola decreed). Again, as I understand the situation, a Jesuit has to seek release from this oath, upon which if granted, he ceases to be a Jesuit. No-one has ever confirmed that Francis ever sought, let alone was released from, this oath nor, to my knowledge, has anyone ever stated that he is no longer a Jesuit. I'm not sure where I picked up these assertions but, if true, they provide a whole new angle on the question, 'Is he pope?'

    Having posted this, I found this quote from St. Ignatius:
    For a Jesuit actually to become a bishop—at least outside the exceptional circumstances of the mission to Ethiopia—represented for Ignatius a denial of what was most central to his vocational self-image. He put the matter like this: ‘to take any dignity would be for us to ruin the Society, so much so that if I wanted to imagine or think up ways of wrecking and destroying this Society, this way, the acceptance of a bishopric, would be one of the main ones, or even the most important of all’ (Letter 149: Ignatius to Ferdinand, King of the Romans, 1546).
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
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  6. AED

    AED Powers

    The culture is set on demonizing men and empowering women. Entertainment and the media are constantly doing social engineering messages. I hate it.
     
  7. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

  8. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

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  9. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    I'm fairly sure I read somewhere that his Jesuit superior gave him the all clear to accept the promotion to Bishop. No doubt it's a fairly routine procedure and the Vatican would have made sure the procedure was followed before appointing him. I reckon that if St. Ignatius were alive today, he would be ashamed of what has become of the Order he founded.

    Faithful Catholic Jesuits are rather thin on the ground these days, otherwise they would make an effort to counteract the mockery being made of their Order by their Superior General and the Pope's cronies. An exception is Fr. Fessio who founded Ignatius Press. Some German Jesuit who declares himself to be homosexual has launched an attack on Cardinal Muller because the Cardinal pointed out the link between homosexual priests and the abuse of teenage boys and seminarians. In defence of Cardinal Muller, Fr. Fessio said “After all, Cardinal Müller is simply stating what any normal person recognizes as obvious: men who are sexually attracted to other men are going to have sex with men, including young boys, more often than men who are not sexually attracted to other men. Even a Jesuit should recognize that, even if he has a PhD in Scripture.”

    Most worrying is that the majority of German Bishops have denounced Cardinal Muller for merely stating facts. It's so sad that the best and brightest of German Bishops were drafted into the Vatican, leaving the wolves to prey on the sheep in their homeland. Frankly, if I lived in Germany and were faced with the prospect of paying the Church tax, I would think long and hard before ticking the "Catholic" box on the tax form because what they represent is not Catholicism. Doing so would deny me the service of one of those pervert apostates praying over my coffin. Better that than having to face God knowing that I had financially supported the spread of apostasy and perversion.

    You can read about the German disgrace in the Lifesite article linked above in SgCatholic's post. As if things weren't bad enough, see this article about the guy they have affirmed as Rector of the Jesuit Graduate School of Philosophy and Theology in Frankfurt: https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/...exual-priest-as-rector-of-catholic-university
    The Superior General of the Jesuits, Fr. Sosa (wired to the moon and friend of the Pope) gave his approval for the appointment of a man who should have been laicised. Then again, if we had a half decent Pope, Fr. Sosa would have been laicised long ago. What's even more worrying for the universal Church is that the same Fr. Sosa (who casts doubt on Scripture because the Apostles didn't have tape recorders) has been elected to represent the superiors general of all religious orders.

    It's also worrying that God appears to be calling hom his good and faithful servants like Cardinals Caffara and Meisner, the latest being Bishop Morleno. With Archbishop Vigano gone into hiding, Bishop Schneider told to curtail his travels, and Cardinal Burke keeping a low profile, I hope that Cardinal Muller has employed a food taster. If this isn't the Great Apostasy foretold in the Scripture Fr. Sosa doubts, it's a very realistic trial run.
     
  10. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I wouldn’t look too closely here. It is quite possible to have a cardiac event at some of these tests. The fact that the Bishop was undergoing tests indicated to me that the tests were for a reason.
    I take it that his heart simply gave out and God took him home. I don’t think it’s unusual at all.
     
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  11. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    That is not how I understand Cardinal Muller's words.
    He said the teaching of the pope must always be in concordance etc, but when one listens to what preceded those words in that interview, it is obvious that the pope has not and is not doing that.

    RA: let's talk for a moment about the corruption of doctrine which you have spoken movingly about in many contexts. I remember during the Amoris Laetitia conversation you certainly were not sold on the idea of granting communion to a second wife when a marriage did not have an annulment; the question of opening that up was of concern for you. We now have a youth synod that just began in Rome this week. In the documentation some are saying this new document allows for terminology like LGBT and different lifestyles and they claim the young people are demanding this. Indeed Cardinal Baldessari who's the Secretary of the synod said "we put that in there, that language, because the young people demanded it." Well it turns out they didn't demand it, which he had to admit. What do you think is happening there with this youth Synod and are you comfortable with this idea of re-occurring synods that almost look like mini Vatican 2s?

    CM: a synod of the bishops is not an ecumenical council and has no authority; even if the Pope is speaking about authority, it's not a magisterial authority. The pope cannot change the basic Constitution of the church. He cannot give a new definition. The papacy is a primacy of the Bishop of Rome and (?what are bishops to do), but behind these synods are some movements to change the doctrine of the church. And there is a developing of the doctrine, but if you say today A tomorrow B, from A to B it's not development, can be the contradiction and it is absolutely impossible. if anybody is in the state of mortal sin he cannot receive the Holy Communion before he had confessed his sin that gets absolution and there is no possibility to change this basic fundamental sacramentology, and also according to the sixth commandment to the sexual moral there is no way to an acceptance of homosexuality as a practice. It's against the sixth commandment and the only way of a legitimate realization of human sexuality is for us Christians according to the laws of God himself, is a legitimate marriage.

    RA: In this New Apostolic Constitution, and I have to challenge you a little bit on what you said a moment ago. In the Pope's new apostolic constitution on the Synod of Bishops that will govern them all, called Episcopal Communion, in it he says the final documents with the approval of Peter, the Pope, has Magisterial authority. Do you believe that's true?"

    CM: "I don't know from where is coming out this idea; seems to be a contradiction to (the Vatican), first Vatican Council and the Second Vatican Council. The ordinary Magisterium is what the church is teaching all today and not of a synod, because a synod is an assembly of some bishops but it's not an ecumenical Council and it's not local. Has as such not this authority about which they are speaking but if the Pope says this only this texts are certain preparation that is my teaching, but this teaching of the Pope must always be always be in concordance, in identity with the teaching of the Holy Scripture and the apostolic tradition and of all what say Magisterium before has said, it cannot be in contradiction.

    (I apologise for any inaccuracies in the transcript)
     
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  12. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    This is a very nice tribute to Bishop Robert Morlino from Father Goring,


    As Dolours stated above it is worrying that God appears to be calling home his good and faithful servants like Cardinals Caffara and Meisner, the latest being Bishop Morlino but I do pray that there has been no foul play.

    The following article contains a link to Bishop Morlino's letter from the video above,

    Response to Scandal: Bishop Morlino’s Letter to the Faithful
    Posted: August 24, 2018 | https://thomasaquinas.edu/news/response-scandal-bishop-morlinos-letter-faithful
    [​IMG]
    The Most Rev. Robert C. Morlino, Bishop of Madison, Wisconsin, at Commencement 2018

    In response to the newest revelations of scandal in the Church, the Most Rev. Robert C. Morlino, Bishop of Madison, Wisconsin, has published a thoughtful Letter to the Faithful in his diocesan newspaper. A friend of Thomas Aquinas College, Bishop Morlino was on campus just last spring, when he served as the 2018 Commencement Speaker and received the College’s highest honor, the Saint Thomas Aquinas Medallion.

    “We as a Church must cease our acceptance of sin and evil. We must cast out sin from our own lives and run toward holiness,” His Excellency writes. “We must refuse to be silent in the face of sin and evil in our families and communities, and we must demand from our pastors — myself included — that they themselves are striving day in and day out for holiness. We must do this always with loving respect for individuals but with a clear understanding that true love can never exist without truth.”

    President Michael F. McLean has recommended His Excellency’s letter to members of the Thomas Aquinas College community as an example of the clarity and charity, fidelity and resolve that this grave crisis demands. Please pray for abuse victims and their families, for the Church, and for Bishop Morlino in his ministry.​

    I remember when I first read Bishop Morlino's letter, I thought of what Conchita of Garabandal had stated in 1980, "We lost the sense of sin."
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...D9E2AAC8DB3F47026A59D9E2AAC8DB3F&&FORM=VRDGAR @ 9 minute mark

    The following quote from Bishop Morlino's letter is very well stated imho,

    For the Church, the crisis we face is not limited to the McCarrick affair, or the Pennsylvania Grand Jury Report, or anything else that may come. The deeper crisis that must be addressed is the license for sin to have a home in individuals at every level of the Church. There is a certain comfort level with sin that has come to pervade our teaching, our preaching, our decision making, and our very way of living.
    This is a very nice tribute to Bishop Morlino also,

    Sunday, November 25, 2018
    "The Mouth That Roared," Madison's Morlino Dies at 71
    http://whispersintheloggia.blogspot.com/2018/11/the-mouth-that-roared-madisons-morlino.html
    ...
    Still, though his long-awaited banquet has come due too soon, as our dear bishop-brother returns to his "granny" and mine, Morlino and his twin specialties – his osso bucco... and no shortage of the most raucous lines any of us will ever hear – will be missed beyond all telling.

    May the angels lead him into Paradise, and may his spirit of fortitude and friendship be ours as we strive ahead.​
     
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  13. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

  14. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I think this is very worrying indeed. Why are the few beacons of light we have all dying off? Why aren't any of the wayward leaders passing away? I have thought about it a lot and I wonder if 1/2 the dubia Cardinals dying played a part in Cardinal Burke deciding not to issue a formal correction. Perhaps he took it as a sign from God or perhaps he simply felt that without them there would not be enough clout behind him issuing it.

    Personally, after much thought, this seems to me to indicate that we will be left with only Our Lord and Our Lady to put our trust in. I think no earthly help is going to appear for us until in/after the Chastisement. We will be left with people to show us the way like Raymond Arroyo and various priests, but as far as Bishops and especially Cardinals who are able to actually do something I'm afraid we are on our own. At least until we have prayed and suffered enough and God decides to right things. I don't know if that is the case or not, but that is just where my current thinking is at.

    Buckle your seat belts. This could be a very long and bumpy ride.
     
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  15. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    Cardinal DiNardo calls CBS News series on Church sex abuse ‘inaccurate’
    In Catholic News Service, Church in the US
    Nov 27, 2018 CONTRIBUTOR | https://cruxnow.com/church-in-the-u...s-news-series-on-church-sex-abuse-inaccurate/
    [​IMG]
    Cardinal Daniel N. DiNardo of Galveston-Houston, president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, listens to a question Nov. 12 during the fall general assembly of the USCCB in Baltimore. Also pictured is Msgr. J. Brian Bransfield, general secretary. (Credit: Bob Roller/CNS.)

    Cardinal Daniel N. DiNardo of Galveston-Houston called a series of news stories by CBS News on the Church sex abuse scandal "inaccurate," saying they "demand a response."

    HOUSTON, Texas - Cardinal Daniel N. DiNardo of Galveston-Houston called a series of news stories by CBS News on the Church sex abuse scandal “inaccurate,” saying they “demand a response.”

    “In these stories, CBS alleges that the Archdiocese of Galveston-Houston has allowed priests who have been ‘credibly accused’ of sexual abuse against a minor to continue their ministry as priests,” said the cardinal, who is president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.

    “The archdiocese responded to over 30 questions submitted to it by CBS News this past weekend, only to see almost all of our responses completely ignored by the CBS team,” he added in a statement released late Nov. 21.

    In a story that aired Nov. 20, CBS News reported on allegations made against Fathers Terence Brinkman and John Keller, who are in active ministry in Houston.

    In his statement, DiNardo confirmed the two priests each had had an accusation of abuse lodged against them, which they both denied, he said. The respective incidents occurred decades ago, the cardinal said, and a lay board reviewed them and concluded the priests should stay in ministry.

    “It is true that two priests remain in ministry who have each been accused of sexually abusing a minor,” DiNardo said. “One accusation was made approximately 20 years after the alleged abuse. The other was made over 30 years after the alleged abuse. Both priests denied they had committed sexual abuse.”

    “Each accusation was reviewed by the archdiocesan lay review board who recommended that both priests be allowed to minister,” he continued. “These are the only accusations made against either priest, who have each served more than 40 years in the archdiocese.”

    CBS News interviewed a man named John LaBonte, who said that in 2002 he spoke to archdiocesan officials about Keller, who LaBonte said had “fondled” him during an overnight parish trip when LaBonte was 16.

    LaBonte told CBS he felt it was his “duty as a Catholic” to talk about what he said happened to him.

    The archdiocese supplied CBS with a letter saying Keller had acknowledged holding LaBonte in an “inappropriate manner for a priest” but he denied there was any “sexual intent.”

    Regarding Brinkman, an alleged victim gave a sworn statement that in the 1970s said the priest “sodomized me.” In a statement to CBS, Brinkman said he cannot say “these events did not take place … but I was not the person who did them to him.” The archdiocese said the victim “provided a physical description that does not match Father Brinkman.”

    CBS News in its report did quote a statement from DiNardo, who has headed the archdiocese since 2006. “I want to assure my brothers and sisters in Christ that we are cooperating, and will cooperate, fully with any investigation involving possible abuse,” he said. “While the church as a whole has made important strides especially since 2002 in addressing this evil, we still have important work to do. We can, and will, do better.”

    DiNardo’s Nov. 21 statement on the CBS News coverage included a comment from the archdiocese pointing out that before the bishops’ Nov. 12-14 fall assembly in Baltimore, the cardinal had spent much of the last two months in Rome attending the Synod of Bishops and “otherwise working with the top leadership urging action on the abuse scandal.”

    In an interview with Catholic News Service in Rome Oct. 22, DiNardo said that while the clerical sexual abuse crisis did not dominate discussions at the Synod of Bishops, it was discussed and that everyone in the room clearly believed the crisis has to be dealt with.

    DiNardo and Archbishop Jose H. Gomez of Los Angeles, USCCB conference vice president, who also was in Rome for the synod, met privately with Pope Francis Oct. 8 to discuss the handling of years of allegations of sexual misconduct by former Cardinal Theodore E. McCarrick of Washington.

    Also in early October, DiNardo and the other Texas bishops announced they will release a comprehensive list of those priests who have been “credibly accused of sexually abusing minors by the end of this coming January.”

    The Galveston-Houston Archdiocese said it has engaged “a nationally respected outside expert to help compile and validate this critically important list. This archdiocese takes every allegation seriously and is fully cooperating - and will cooperate - with any and all investigations related to it.”

    Across the country in the Diocese of Buffalo, New York, Bishop Richard J. Malone Nov. 21 took a local TV investigative team to task for its coverage of a couple of abuse cases in his previous diocese, the Diocese of Portland, Maine, which he headed from 2004 to 2013. The TV reports accused him of a cover-up; both priests were eventually allowed to minister with restrictions after claims made against them were not proven.

    One case involved Father Paul E. Coughlin, who was suspended for befriending a violent sex offender and allowing him to live in the parish rectory at St. John the Evangelist Church in South Portland. The other involved Father Thomas M. Lee, who was accused of sexual abuse dating back decades; the allegations came to light in the early 2000s.

    “I sought and obtained Father Coughlin’s resignation from ministry, but canon law required I review his case periodically,” Malone stated. “After three years, I allowed him to resume some priestly duties - saying Mass in convent chapels and filling in at weekend Masses. There was a significant outcry to this decision so I re-evaluated my decision and restricted his ministry.”

    In the case of Lee, he said, when a tribunal determined “the allegations were not proven, I supported an appeal. When a second tribunal reached the same conclusion, no further appeal was possible.”

    “Nevertheless,” Malone added, “I continued the restrictions on his ministry. I know some were critical of the canonical process because they did not like the result. It’s no different than when people become frustrated with our justice system if they do not like the verdict. But the verdict stands.”

    The canonical process in each priest’s case “was scrupulously followed during my time as bishop in Portland, Maine. For anyone to imply that there was any sort of cover-up in either case is patently false. We were transparent, issuing press releases and letters to the faithful throughout both investigations.”

    Contributing to this story was Julie Asher in Washington.
     
  16. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    We are going to see a whole lot of this in the media with every diocese being investigated by the feds and the leaks to the press that will inevitably result. I suspect a whole lot of accusations will be levied and that the presumption of innocence will not be granted anyone after the McCarrick ordeal.
    I hope I am wrong. The Bishops are going to have their hands full.
     
  17. SteveD

    SteveD Powers

    I recently posted this claimed quote from a book about St. Francis, published in 1882. I was re-reading it hoping to be able to apply the content to the current controversies about the validity of Bergoglio's election, if indeed the prophecy relates to our time and specifically Francis (I say it does). Interestingly, the saint describes the subject of the prophecy as 'a man, not canonically elected, who will be raised to the pontificate'. So, I deduce from this that the man will actually be Pope although he should not have been elected. But I am open to correction.

    TAKEN FROM Works of the Seraphic Father St. Francis Of Assisi, Washbourne, 1882, pp. 248-250


    1. The time is fast approaching in which there will be great trials and afflictions; perplexities and dissensions, both spiritual and temporal, will abound; the charity of many will grow cold, and the malice of the wicked will increase.

    2. The devils will have unusual power, the immaculate purity of our Order, and of others, will be so much obscured that there will be very few Christians who will obey the true Sovereign Pontiff and the Roman Church with loyal hearts and perfect charity. At the time of this tribulation a man, not canonically elected, will be raised to the Pontificate, who, by his cunning, will endeavor to draw many into error and death.

    3. Then scandals will be multiplied, our Order will be divided, and many others will be entirely destroyed, because they will consent to error instead of opposing it.

    4. There will be such diversity of opinions and schisms among the people, the religious and the clergy, that, except those days were shortened, according to the words of the Gospel, even the elect would be led into error, were they not specially guided, amid such great confusion, by the immense mercy of God.

    5. Then our Rule and manner of life will be violently opposed by some, and terrible trials will come upon us. Those who are found faithful will receive the crown of life; but woe to those who, trusting solely in their Order, shall fall into tepidity, for they will not be able to support the temptations permitted for the proving of the elect.

    6. Those who preserve in their fervor and adhere to virtue with love and zeal for the truth, will suffer injuries and, persecutions as rebels and schismatics; for their persecutors, urged on by the evil spirits, will say they are rendering a great service to God by destroying such pestilent men from the face of the earth. but the Lord will be the refuge of the afflicted, and will save all who trust in Him. And in order to be like their Head, [Christ] these, the elect, will act with confidence, and by their death will purchase for themselves eternal life; choosing to obey God rather than man, they will fear nothing, and they will prefer to perish rather than consent to falsehood and perfidy.

    7. Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it under foot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days JESUS CHRIST WILL SEND THEM NOT A TRUE PASTOR, BUT A DESTROYER."
     
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  18. Joan J

    Joan J HolySpiritCome!

    Front and center within the Holy Family, with angels hovering and adoring. This sure looks more like an nativity scene than the previous photo I saw.
     
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  19. Joan J

    Joan J HolySpiritCome!

    Bottom line to me is celibacy is celibacy, regardless of the temptation. They knew what that meant looong before they took that vow along with obedience etc.
     

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