The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    I’m back home in Pennsylvania for a few days for an important hearing related to my strokes on Tuesday, and my spiritual director for the last two years stopped in to visit last night. He is a mainstream but orthodox and pro life diocesan priest, who baptized my oldest son 26 years ago, and not one to follow apparitions and the other stuff we do.

    However, based on current events he really feels something huge is imminent. He has no idea what, but given the degree of the homosexual advance in the world and the Church, on top of abortion, abortifacient contraception, the birth control mentality in general, euthanasia, etc., he feels something of biblical proportions is imminent. Like right on top of us.

    Recently I was listening to a YouTube video (maybe Taylor Marshall) and the comment was made that according to Jewish commentaries on the Old Testament, what caused God to act in Noah’s time was that men were contracting marriage with men. If that’s the case...
     
    Carol55, Frodo, DeGaulle and 6 others like this.
  2. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    That makes complete sense, marrying and giving in marriage is mentioned in the NT as part of the description of “as it was in the days of Noah “
    Best prayerful wishes for a good outcome at your hearings
    Thank you for posting about your director’s insights.
     
    AED, Mary's child and BrianK like this.
  3. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Every so often I think of that as the disasters happen with more frequency and greater intensity.
     
    Booklady, AED and Mary's child like this.
  4. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    God bless Msgr Pope. His writings are easy to read and understand and full of truth. I feel better already since he has called a spade a spade.
     
    Mary's child and AED like this.
  5. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I have posted this before. In the 1950s and early 1960s someone paid for
    Psalm 2 to be printed at the very beginning of the classified ads every Saturday in the Washington Post. I used to turn to it many many Saturdays. I did not “get it” because I was too young. I get it now. The anonymous post-er must have known truths way back then, 60-70 years ago.
    The translation back then was, “why do the heathens rage and the peoples devise vain things?”
    I loved it.
    Good post, Brian.
     
  6. Immaculata

    Immaculata Principalities

  7. Bernadette C

    Bernadette C Principalities

    I really hope Rome recieve this money owing.
    I long for a Holy Church again even if it is poor and small.

    Besides. Less money the Vatican have for abortions, contaceptions and funding the LGBT the better.
     
    Beth B, Booklady, AED and 3 others like this.
  8. Bernadette C

    Bernadette C Principalities

    Bergoglio would like to see everyone equally poor.

    My family is below average income, but I feel very rich in that we save for holidays, never go hungry and always pay our bills on time.
    Why does this pope try and make me feel guilty for earning money through working even though this is what we are meant to do.
    Sure, feed those who try to find work but can't - I get that.

    But Hitler's socialist way was to make us all equally poor so the government can control.
     
  9. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Not sure if it was hitler’s way but I get what you mean
    Communist socialist
     
    Bernadette C, AED and Mary's child like this.
  10. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    Thanks. It’s been an almost two year wait for an appeal.

    My spiritual director is on his way to Connecticut today to venerate the relic of St. John Vianney’ incorrupt heart:
    https://www.kofc.org/en/events/vianney.html#/Schedule
     
  11. Even the Italians living there hate for anything $$$$ to go to Rome. That's why they hide real income, esp. in the north....factories are "hidden" and often there are double book keeping procedures. They know that any of their hard earned income going to Rome (like D.C. swamp here) is going into a sink hole and into the pockets of the corrupt.

    This question of back pay from the originally protected and independent Vatican City has arisen previously and found to be uncollectible. But now with the continuing adverse publicity often kept in the news by the figure of the Pontiff the time for resurrecting the attack seems to be ripe. And as usual the real culprits won't suffer. Like anywhere else in the world it will be the little people, this time in the pew, who would be the real victims.

    It's not any concern for justice but for the globalists to bring down the Seat of Peter and its authority/influence in their planned secular world regardless of who is at the top. They only use convenient avenues (and personalities in the prominent positions of control) for their goal.
     
    Bernadette C, sunburst and DeGaulle like this.
  12. Noted Vatican Theologian Calls for Examination of Validity of Pope Benedict’s XVI’s Resignation

    BY DEBRA HEINE NOVEMBER 16, 2018
    [​IMG]
    Msgr. Nicola Bux. Image via Facebook.

    In an important interview that was overlooked last month, a Vatican theologian said that unless Pope Francis corrects himself and reaffirms Church teaching on morals, the faith, and the sacraments, "the apostasy will deepen and the de facto schism will widen."

    To address the current crisis, he suggested that an examination of the “juridical validity” of Pope Benedict’s XVI’s resignation was in order to “overcome problems that today seem insurmountable to us.” The theologian consultor to the Congregation for the Causes of Saints was implying that further study of the situation could reveal that Francis is not and has never been a valid pope, but is, in fact, an antipope who could be removed from the papacy, thus nullifying his "insurmountable" errors.

    Msgr. Nicola Bux, a former consultor to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith under Benedict XVI, made the remarkable comments in an in-depth interview with Vatican reporter Aldo Maria Valli, the same reporter who interviewed Archbishop Carlo Viganò before he accused the pope of covering up clerical sexual misconduct in a stunning eleven-page letter back in August.

    Writing on his own blog, National Catholic Register reporter Edward Pentin says that Bux warned that the current pope is issuing statements that are generating “heresies, schisms, and controversies of various kinds” and that the pontiff should issue a profession of faith to restore unity in the Church.

    In the interview, published Oct. 13 but overlooked due to the Youth Synod taking place in Rome last month, the theologian consultor to the Congregation for the Causes of Saints said “heretical statements” on marriage, the moral life and reception of the sacraments are now “at the center of a vast debate which is becoming more and more passionate by the day.”

    Msgr. Bux said the origin of many of these questioned teachings — highlighted in a September 2017 filial correction and at a Rome conference in April on doctrinal confusion in the Church — is the Pope’s post-synodal apostolic exhortation Amoris Laetitia, but they have since become “considerably worse and more complicated.”

    He said this has led some senior prelates, such as Cardinal Walter Brandmüller, one of the four cardinals to sign the dubia in 2016, to reiterate a call for a “profession of faith on the part of the Pope.”

    But Msgr. Bux said this would be difficult to achieve given the Pope’s vision of the Church as a federation of ecclesial communities — something Msgr. Bux described as “a bit like the Protestant communities.”

    The theologian said that after the last two synods on the family, teaching on faith and morality has become inconsistent on the question of whether to give Holy Communion to divorced and remarried Catholics.

    "Not a few bishops and parish priests, therefore, are in great embarrassment, because of an unstable and confused pastoral situation," he said.

    Msgr. Bux said some kind of profession of faith -- like the one St. Paul VI made in 1968 reaffirming what is Catholic “in the face of the errors and heresies” that came immediately after the Second Vatican Council -- is required of the pope to remedy the situation.

    “If this doesn’t happen,” he warned, “the apostasy will deepen and the de facto schism will widen.”

    Msgr. Bux said the situation had "become even more urgent as a result of the latest changes introduced by the pope, such as that concerning the definition of 'anti-evangelism' of the death penalty."

    "And the problems, I said, are notable, because either we admit that the Church has taught the legitimacy of something anti-evangelical practically for two thousand years or we must admit that it was Pope Bergoglio to err, considering anti-evangelical what, at contrary, it is at least abstractly compliant with Revelation," Bux said. "This is a very sensitive issue, but sooner or later he’s going have to put this right. And not just for the death penalty.”

    Asked by Valli if this sets a precedent for the Pope to change more of the Catechism if he wishes, the theologian said this is a “very disturbing question,” and that another “legitimate concern” is to keep the deposit of faith from “sensitivities contingent on today’s or tomorrow’s society.”

    The Pope cannot “impose his own opinion” on the Church, Msgr. Bux stressed, quoting Joseph Ratzinger, because on matters of faith, morals and the sacraments, the Church can “only consent to the will of Christ.” And yet he said “many points” in Amoris Laetitia are “cumbersome and contradictory” as well as contrary to the thinking of St. Thomas Aquinas, despite the exhortation asserting otherwise.

    Msgr. Bux also addressed the pope's tendency to be silent in the face of criticism, and refusal to engage the charges of heresy or apostasy by pointing out St. Pius X’s warning in his 1907 encyclical Pascendi Dominici Gregis: That never “clearly confessing one’s own heresy” is “typical behaviour of the modernists, because in this way they can hide themselves within the Church.”

    The monsignor went on to suggest that if found guilty of heresy, Pope Francis could be removed from office.

    "In the Decree of Gratian (pars I, paragraph 40, chapter VI) there is this canon: 'No mortal will presume to speak of the pope's guilt, since, appointed to judge everyone, he must not be judged by anyone unless you deviate from faith,'" he said.

    Msgr. Bux explained that "the distancing and deviation from the faith is called heresy" and "in the case of manifest heresy, according to St. Robert Bellarmine, the pope can be judged."

    He added that "the pope is called by the Lord to spread the Catholic faith, but to do so he must prove capable of defending it."

    (cont'd below)
     
    Agnes rose likes this.
  13. (cont'd from above)

    Valli asked the monsignor if he was saying a pope found to be heretical would "cease to be the pope and head of the ecclesial body, and he loses all jurisdiction."

    "Yes, heresy affects the faith and the status of a member of the Church, which are the root and foundation of jurisdiction," Msgr. Bux replied. "Every faithful, including the Pope, with heresy separates himself from the unity of the Church. It is well known that the Pope is at the same time a member and part of the Church, because the hierarchy is within and not above the Church, as stated in Lumen gentium (No. 18)."

    Msgr. Bux noted however that it is difficult “identifying the exact contours of a heresy” because theology “is no longer reliable,” but has become a “sort of arena” where "everything converges and its opposite."

    "So, affirmed a truth, there will always be someone willing to defend the exact opposite. As you can see, there are many practical, theological and juridical difficulties to the question of the judgment of the heretical pope," the theologian lamented.

    He suggested that from a practical point of view, "it would be easier to examine and study more accurately the question concerning the juridical validity of Pope Benedict XVI's renunciation," for example, examining whether it was "full or partial ('halfway')." Msgr. Bux added that "the idea of a sort of collegiate papacy seems to me decidedly against the Gospel dictate."

    Msgr. Bux pointed out that Jesus did not, in fact, tibi dabo claves [give the keys of heaven] to Peter and Andrew, but only to Peter!

    "That's why I say that perhaps a thorough study of renunciation could be more useful and profitable, as well as helping to overcome problems that today seem insurmountable to us," the theologian declared.

    He quoted Saverio Gaeta, Fatima, the whole truth, saying: "It was written: 'There will also come a time of the most difficult trials for the Church. Cardinals will oppose cardinals and bishops to bishops. Satan will put himself in their midst. Also in Rome there will be great changes.'"

    Msgr. Bux argued that with Pope Francis, "great change" in the church is "palpable," along with a clear intention to "break with the previous pontificates."

    "This discontinuity -- a revolution -- generates heresies, schisms and controversies of various kinds. However, all of them can be traced back to sin," he said. Quoting 3rd century Church Father Origen of Alexandria, he added: "Where there is sin, there we find multiplicity, there schisms, there heresies, there the controversies. Where virtue reigns, there is unity, there is communion, thanks to which all believers were one heart and one soul."

    As an encouragement to faithful Catholics, Msgr. Bux quoted St. Athanasius of Alexandria’s address to Christians who suffered under the Arians:

    You remain outside the places of worship, but faith dwells in you. Let’s see: what is more important, the place or the faith? True faith, of course. Who has lost and who has won in this fight, the one keeps the See or observes the faith? It is true, the buildings are good, when the apostolic faith is preached to you; they are holy if everything happens there in a holy way… You are the ones who are happy, you who remain within the Church because of your faith, who keep its foundations strong as they have been passed down to you through the apostolic tradition. And if some execrable jealousy tries to shake it on various occasions, it does not succeed. They are the ones who broke away from it in the current crisis. No one, never, will prevail against your faith, beloved brothers, and we believe that God will make us one day return our churches. The more violent they try to occupy the places of worship, the more they separate themselves from the Church. They claim that they represent the Church, but in reality they are the ones who are, in turn, expelled from it and go off the road.

    Valli asked Bux whether heresy is not just about spreading false doctrines but also “silencing the truth about doctrine and morals.”

    “Of course it is,” he responded. “Where there is no doctrine, there are moral problems — as we are seeing. When the pope and bishops do this, they use their office to destroy [doctrine].”

    Quoting St. Augustine, he said, “they seek their own interests, not the interests of Jesus Christ; they proclaim his word, but spread their ideas.”

    Quoting Cardinal Giacomo Biffi of Bologna, he added: "The name of Jesus Christ has become an excuse to talk about something else: migration, ecology and so on. Thus we are no longer unanimous in speaking (1 Cor 1: 10) and the Church is divided."


    https://pjmedia.com/faith/noted-vat...-validity-of-pope-benedicts-xvis-resignation/
     
  14. BrianK

    BrianK Guest


    I’ve been saying exactly this here literally for several years. It’s good to see someone of Msgr. Bux’ impeccable stature saying this publicly.
     
    DivineMercy and HeavenlyHosts like this.
  15. SteveD

    SteveD Powers

    Take a look at this especially from 36:19. Apparently the notorious Vatican homosexual drug-fuelled orgy was held to 'celebrate' Francis agreeing to the episcopal ordination of a homosexual priest on the recommendation of Cardinal Coccopalemerio! God save us from these evil men.

     
    sunburst likes this.
  16. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    The video appears to end at the time mark you recommend?
     
  17. padraig

    padraig Powers

  18. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    Yes, it's good to know that there may finally be a serious pursuit of the truth in this matter. I pray so.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2018
    DivineMercy likes this.
  19. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    I think the part mentioned by SteveD begins at ~18:36.
     
    djmoforegon, BrianK and sunburst like this.
  20. With the latest pronouncement yesterday for public consumption by the Pope I wonder if he realizes that this kind of personal dividing of the faithful/those of good will only encourages more persecution of the faithful. He's actually bringing about the predicted abuse and persecution of the faithful since Satan's
    strategy in all of this is to force, by circumstances, the "solid or true" ones to identify themselves so they may be targeted for removal as the last remnant of Christ in this world.

    It's everywhere on the news. Just watched the former U.S. Ambassador to the Vatican on FOX business praise his time and efforts under Pope Benedict and classify these kinds of social statements from Francis as just promoting the Liberation Theology condemnation of anyone outside of the classified "needy". This leads to confiscation of wealth as in Venezuela with hellish conditions for all. More and more comments following such news are using this w/ the ongoing push by the secular world against anything representing traditional teachings and religious influence in the world to demand total confiscation of the historical protection of artwork et al created for the Vatican. This could lead to even promoting of what has been prophesied for Rome and the Vatican.....attacks which destroy everything by the organized Muslim/Commie mobs. Seems each move coming from the top at the Vatican is bringing such prophecies closer each day.
     
    Fatima likes this.

Share This Page