The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. padraig

    padraig Powers

    .mmm..What do think of his other background?
     
  2. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Such a swamp
     
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  3. AED

    AED Powers

    Yes. Chillingly accurate.
     
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  4. Sam

    Sam Powers

    Literally getting sick to death of all this crap

    Notre Dame president says child abusers aren’t monsters. Student asks, ‘Is this a joke?’


    SOUTH BEND, Indiana, November 15, 2018 (LifeSiteNews) – A Notre Dame law student has blasted the famous university’s president for saying that child sex abusers “shouldn’t be turned into monsters.”

    Father John Jenkins made the remark in an interview with Crux magazine while he explained why Notre Dame has not rescinded ex-cardinal Theodore McCarrick’s honorable doctorate.

    “There’s a tendency, and I don’t think it’s a helpful tendency in this kind of situation, to turn the perpetrators into monsters,” he told interviewer Ines San Martin.

    San Martin said his ability to see complexity in the clerical sexual abuse crisis “befit” Jenkins as “an Oxford-educated philosopher,” but Notre Dame student Deion Kathawa strongly disagrees.

    In a November 9 letter to the editor of the Notre Dame Observer, Kathawa asked if the interviewer’s flattering words were a joke.

    “There is nothing ‘complex’ about what has happened here at all,” the self-described “loyal son of the Church” wrote.

    “Priests, who are commanded to tend to their parishioners as a shepherd to his flock...sexually abused the most vulnerable in their charge, children, and men like McCarrick, when they weren’t debasing themselves by abusing others, systematically covered it up,” Kathawa continued.

    The irate student then took a swipe at Jenkin’s name-brand degree.

    “Frankly, only an ‘Oxford-educated philosopher’ could possibly see anything in this heinous mess other than a thick coating of demonic filth, a filth that now covers the Body of Christ and obscures her God-given mission,” Kathawa stated.

    “Institutions that churn out moral illiterates, bereft also of common sense, do not deserve our respect, regardless of how ‘prestigious’ they are,” he continued.

    “‘For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?’ (Matthew. 8:36).”

    The student insisted that there is nothing “nuanced” or “ambiguous” about the clerical sex abuse tragedy.

    “Rather than give of themselves fully – spiritually, mentally, emotionally and physically – these priests selfishly indulged their own twisted, sinful desires and abused those they were to love, even unto death – like Christ,” he wrote.

    Kathawa urged Father Jenkins to repent, “retract his tone deaf comments,” and apologize to the Church.

    The student’s letter attracted the attention of author and columnist Rod Dreher, who republished it in the online American Conservative. Once a leading Catholic apologist, Dreher, author of The Benedict Option, lost his faith while reporting on the child sex abuse crisis in the Church.

    Dreher said the letter was “a sign that the younger generation of Catholics is not prepared to keep its head down while the Church’s leadership class excuses its own sins and failings.”

    A few months ago, Notre Dame University, which has stripped convicted rapist Bill Cosby of his honorary degree, rejected a request by alumni to rescind that of the disgraced ex-cardinal.

    In August, addressing the controversy, Jenkins released a statement which read, in part:

    “While the University finds the alleged actions reprehensible and has no reason to question the [New York Archdiocese] review board’s findings, it recognizes that McCarrick maintains his innocence and that a final decision in the case will come only after a canonical trial in Rome. As in the case of Bill Cosby, we will wait until that trial is concluded to take action regarding McCarrick’s honorary degree. We strongly urge those involved in this trial to reach a conclusion as expeditiously as possible.”

    Notre Dame president says child abusers aren’t monsters. Student asks, ‘Is this a joke?’ | News | LifeSite
     
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  5. lynnfiat

    lynnfiat Fiat Voluntas Tua

    You may want to review Mother Angelicas issue with Cardinal Mahoney years ago. It should answer a few questions about him.
     
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  6. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Yes I recall now, he did his best to sink Mother Angleica. Forget Cardinal Mahoney.:(
     
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  7. More Vigano news/palace intrigue.....with a bit of a slanted article here you might say:

    https://www.lastampa.it/2018/11/15/...is-brother-jDh2Hm55gRRqpic22MT32L/pagina.html

    Former Nuncio Viganò sentenced to pay compensation to his brother

    The sentence of the Court of Milan: the accuser of the Pope will have to return to his brother Don Lorenzo one million and 800 thousand euros

    Carlo Maria Viganò, the former apostolic nuncio to the United States who, at the end of August was the protagonist of a sensational political-media operation against Pope Francis, culminating in the publication of a pamphlet asking for the resignation of the Pontiff, has lost the civil lawsuit that saw him opposed to his brother priest for the management of a conspicuous family inheritance. A judgment of the fourth section of the Civil Court of Milan last October sentenced him in fact to compensate Don Lorenzo Viganò for one million and 800 thousand euros, along with interest and court costs.

    Archbishop Carlo Maria and his brother Don Lorenzo, a scholar of Mesopotamian civilization, jointly held their substantial family assets, which in 2010 included real estate for an estimated value of about 20 million euros plus a significant cash sum of more than six million euros. The inheritance had always been managed by archbishop Viganò, for a long time Delegate for the papal representations, then secretary of the Vatican Governorate and finally apostolic nuncio to Washington after breaking off relations with the Secretary of State Tarcisio Bertone and with Pope Benedict XVI himself.

    The former nuncio, according to the sentence, had continued to receive the real estate revenues and the cash availability, obtaining a total of “transactions for a net amount of 3,649,866.25 euros”. Half of this amount will now have to be paid to his brother Don Lorenzo. The priest was sued by the archbishop on the eve of Vatileaks, when Viganò tried to remain in the Vatican by writing to Benedict XVI that he could not take up the post of apostolic nuncio to the United States because of the illness of his brother whom he had to take care of.

    It’s true that Don Lorenzo Viganò, resident in Chicago, had been struck by a stroke that forced him to use a wheelchair, yet it’s not true that his brother Vigano’s mission to the US would have prevented him from taking care of him. In fact, it would have brought them closer. It had emerged at that time that the relationship between the two brothers was compromised precisely because of issues related to the management of the inheritance. Don Lorenzo had already sued Carlo Maria in 2010. In recent weeks the civil court reached its first sentence on the case.

    As you will remember, on 26 August last Carlo Maria Viganò published, thanks to the anti-papal political-media circuit based in the United States and Italy, a testimony with accusations (and significant omissis) against Francis over the case of Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, archbishop emeritus of Washington and molester of seminarians. The prelate, repeatedly promoted from the ’eighties to 2000, was heavily sanctioned by Pope Bergoglio - who took away his purple hat with a measure that had not happened in the Catholic Church for 91 years - when - for the first time - a credible accusation of historical child abuse emerged against the almost ninety-year-old former cardinal.

    Viganò, supported by several American bishops, has carved out a leading role in recent weeks, arriving two days ago to sign a message to all the participants in the meeting of the United States Episcopal Conference to ask them to resist the Pope.

     
  8. Quite an article with a personal expose by the author....and some good comments afterwards:

    The Elephant in the Room Threatens the Church

    I am only speaking out now about the scandals in the Church because I remained silent before and contributed to the growth of the pernicious poison that will choke the life out of the Church if it is not rooted out immediately. I am sick of remaining silent for fear of giving scandal to the laity, when it is with them, that it now seems, is our main hope of deliverance.

    Since the age of eight, my closest friend was, what later came to be called ‘gay’, although the word did not exist in those days. All I knew was that he was, and always has been my best friend, not least because we were complimentary to each other, but most of all because he would never let me down. Vincent was a brilliant pianist and had most of the classical repertoire in his head when I couldn’t read or write with any proficiency. By the time I could, he had a degree in English from Cambridge and became a lecturer for the rest of his life. He hated sports of all kinds and I was good at almost all of them. When I was in dire straits and in danger of being left homeless it was Vincent who offered me a home. At his funeral, I cried for the first time in living memory. After his death, my wife and I became close to another ‘gay’ friend equally talented and equally committed to the Catholic faith for which he, like Vincent, would have died. He lived with a ‘gay’ friend whom he loved, but with whom, as he explicitly insisted, he never had any sexual relationship. For him, the very idea of gay marriage was utterly abhorrent.

    Power In Weakness
    I have begun with these two stories because I do not want to be accused of being homophobic for what follows. The truth of the matter is I have met many so-called ‘gay’ Catholics, who have inspired me to such an extent that I now have no doubt that there have been many such mystics and saints. These ‘gay Catholics’ were generally born with what others may see as a weakness just as I was born with a weakness too. But for St Paul (2 Corinthians 12:9) what others call a weakness can become a person’s greatest strength, as dyslexia has been my greatest strength.

    It is perhaps understandable that in the past ‘gay’ men were attracted to communities of men as the safest and most desirable place to seek God. When I tried my vocation even before the Second Vatican Council, of forty-five others at least six were ‘gay’ although I only realise this with hindsight. At the time ‘gay’ seminarians kept their heads down, they were there but they were latent. I know several who went on to become excellent priests.

    50,000 left the Priesthood
    A massive disillusionment after the Council led many tens of thousands of young priests and religious to leave the priesthood and religious life. The usual figure quoted is 50,000, but I think that is an underestimation. For obvious reasons, the vast majority of ‘gay’ seminarians and priests remained behind. When in the sixties and seventies celibacy, in general, became taboo for the majority of the younger generation vocations to the priesthood suffered, except for many ‘gay’ Catholics, who continued to be attracted to the priesthood and the religious life. When in 1979 I was giving a lecture tour in South Africa I found that St John Vianney Seminary in Pretoria was almost entirely populated by ‘gay’ seminarians. I found the whole atmosphere sick and depressing. They openly admitted that for them the vow of celibacy meant that although this obliged them to refrain from sex with women it did not prevent them from having sex with other men, and they did quite openly.

    The Troubles at Maynooth
    When I returned to Europe I met a young religious priest whilst lecturing on Mystical Theology in Rome only to find the same sort of mentality had infected his own order, or at least at the house of studies where he returned to teach, and where he found that as a heterosexual male he was treated as a pariah. Returning to England I was made the Dean of Studies at the National Radio and Television Centre at Hatch End. When a large group of Franciscan students came to make a video recording of their music on the life of St Francis I found they all seemed to be ‘gay’. My feelings at the time were confirmed by a Franciscan Priest who I met in London only a matter of weeks ago who was a student at that house of studies in Canterbury at the time, where he described how the ‘gay’ seminarians gradually took over and ruled. In more modern times a similar situation was discovered at the great Irish seminary of Maynooth and, as those who read the Catholic media will know, there have been long and bitter struggles to try and remedy the situation. However, all these examples from my own personal experience are as nothing compared with the situation in the USA at the present. Just as later Rome forbade all talk about women priests, in the nineteen-nineties, Rome forbade all talk about homosexuality. It was strictly forbidden. It was and has been the green light for homosexual males to flood into and take over many, if not most seminaries. Then later this happened to whole dioceses with more and more homosexual bishops, archbishops, and cardinals, encouraging and promoting their own with what now appears to be disastrous consequences. One of the most conservative but highly respected Catholic moral theologians in the USA, Professor Janet Smith, has said that now most dioceses in the USA are full of homosexual priests and many are run by them. In fact well over seventy percent of clergy from top to bottom are ‘gay’.

    They are Pushy, Pugnacious and Partisan
    I don’t just mean ‘gay’ as friends of mine were ‘gay’ as many good priests have been and still are ‘gay’ ‘ – but militantly ‘gay’ – not as celibate individuals but as pushy, pugnacious partisans with agendas hardly distinguishable from secular LGBT communities that they wish to impose on the Church. This can be seen in parishes they have taken over in the USA.

    (cont'd below)
     
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  9. (cont'd from above)

    I am not a psychiatrist, but it seems clear to me that whereas individual seminarians and priest can make excellent pastors when they become the majority in a seminary or in a whole diocese the consequences can be extremely serious. Evidence has already shown many times over that attractions, flirtations, love affairs, envy, jealousy and all the other lovemaking shenanigans soon become the norm and traditional spirituality is all but outlawed, as are new heterosexual vocations who either have to keep their heads down and fit in or get out, as many do. The impression is at present being given from ‘on high’ that the sexual horrors that have depraved the Church for all too long now are all but over, but that is far from the truth. If paedophilia is finally under control and dealt with, which I very much doubt, then pederasty is all but out of control especially in some countries like the USA.

    The Elephant in the Church
    It is the ‘elephant in the room’, or I suppose I should say in the Church and as Cardinal Muller said recently, over eighty times more prevalent than paedophilia ever was. There can be no going forward without this whole matter coming out and into the open, and being dealt with as it was in the early Church. I admit that despite my experiences I found the matter so detestable that I pretended that I had been mistaken and looked the other way, hoping I had been unlucky enough to have stumbled on rare anomalies that would simply go away. But in subsequent years, like insidious fungus, the proliferation of pederasty has grown underground only to mushroom all over the Catholic world, but in the USA there are now whole drifts of them almost everywhere. In recent months I have been shocked beyond shocked.

    Cheers and Jeers for Cardinal Hume
    I listened to a ‘gay’ speaker who was cheered when he said that Cardinal Hume was ‘on our side’ immediately followed by jeers of derision when he went on to say – ‘as long as we don’t do it’. For communities of ‘gays,’ the very idea was unthinkable! Let me be quite clear, sodomy was not only considered an abomination in the Old Testament but in the New Testament too. If it was committed in the early Church it had to be admitted publicly and the offenders had to undergo the sacrament of reconciliation throughout Lent with all the appropriate penances. If they continued to offend after that they were permanently excluded from the Christian community. Nothing has changed nor can it change – sodomy is a very serious sin and permanent offenders who are priests, bishops or cardinals, being in mortal sin, cannot administer the sacraments lawfully whether there has been an official condemnation from Rome or not. It would be the same if your parish priest installed a mistress in the presbytery. Their seriously sinful actions ‘ipso facto’ (by the very act of performing them) instantly separate them from the mystical body of Christ. They cannot, therefore, perform any of the sacraments lawfully, nor is it lawful for any of the faithful to approach them to do so. Parishes run by such priests are in effect under an interdict whether such an edict has been issued from Rome or not. They simply do not belong to us nor we to them despite all the external similarities.

    Time for Transparency
    The time for secrecy and cover-ups is over. It is now the time for truth, transparency and accountability. Everything is about to come out into the open anyway and in the very near future. However, I will now take my bow, because other journalists will expose and comment on the scandals that will go on and on. My job will be to do what I do best and that is to offer the solution. I have said what I have said to make it plain that I am not just an old ‘has-been’ who lives in ‘cloud cuckoo land’ endlessly peddling pious platitudes. Nor do I intend to act like a nouveau Nero playing my fiddle while Rome is reduced to ashes, my job is to offer the solution? But more of this next time.


    http://www.catholicstand.com/the-elephant-in-the-room-threatens-the-church/
     
  10. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    Character assassination by the media is truly the highest form of flattery.
     
  11. lynnfiat

    lynnfiat Fiat Voluntas Tua

  12. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    "The Virgin Mary will save the Church."
    "We must obey God and not man."

    God Bless Fr Minutella.
    We sorely need more courageous priests like him.
     
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  13. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    I apologise if the following has been posted already:

    Cardinal Zen delivers new letter on China to Pope Francis: ‘Underground clerics have cried’
    Dorothy Cummings McLean

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/c...er-on-china-to-pope-francis-underground-cleri
    [​IMG]
    Cardinal Joseph Zen | Cardinal Pietro Parolin
    HONG KONG, November 12, 2018 (LifeSiteNews) ― Cardinal Joseph Zen has written a letter to Pope Francis detailing the sufferings of Catholics in China since the Vatican signed a deal with the communist government.

    Cardinal Zen revealed that he flew to Rome at the end of October to deliver a seven-page letter to Pope Francis begging him to pay attention of the crisis engulfing the underground Catholic Church in China.

    Zen, 86, wants to talk to the Pope again, but he told an Asian Catholic media websitethat “this may be the last time.”

    On November 8, the Shanghai-born Cardinal told the Union of Catholic Asian News (ucanews.com) that “underground clerics have cried to him” since the Vatican signed a deal with China on the appointment of bishops.

    "They said officials have forced them to become open, to join the (schismatic) Chinese Catholic Patriotic Association and to obtain a priest's certificate with the reason that the pope has signed the Sino-Vatican provisional agreement," Cardinal Zen told the media group.

    Because the agreement is not public, the legitimate Catholic clergy do not know what the Holy Father wants them to do.

    "Some priests have escaped, and some have disappeared because they do not know what to do and are annoyed. The agreement is undisclosed, and they do not know if what officials say is true or not," Zen said.

    Some of the clerics’ hardships enumerated in Zen’s letter are confiscated money, clerics’ relations being harassed by civil authorities, imprisonment, and even execution.

    “But the Holy See does not support them and regards them as trouble, referring to them causing trouble and not supporting unity. This is what makes them most painful," said the Cardinal.

    Zen also described his surprise that Pope Francis has said Chinese Catholics should be “prophets and sometimes criticize the government.”

    “I feel very surprised that he does not understand the situation of the Chinese Church,” he said.

    The redoubtable Cardinal has once again blamed Pope Francis’ advisers, chief among them his Secretary of State, Cardinal Pietro Parolin.

    “He is very experienced. He also sees China’s ugly face and knows they are not reasonable,” Zen said. “In fact, he does not trust the Chinese side. He only uses them to achieve the purpose of establishing diplomatic relations."

    In addition to the current pontiff’s failure to grasp the gravity of the fate of Catholics in China, there has been a misinterpretation of letters Pope Benedict wrote about the Church in China during his own pontificate. Some believe Benedict called the underground church “abnormal,” but Zen insists this is not the case.

    "Pope Benedict XVI was not talking about the abnormality of the underground church itself, but the situation in China is not normal. The government's intervention means that the Church cannot be pure and leads to abnormality, so the bishops, priests and faithful are going to the underground."

    Government interference in the Church means that in order to keep the faith whole and entire, the Church must remain underground. However, part of that faith is the recognition of a reigning pontiff as the Vicar of Christ.

    "Our bottom line is the pope,” Zen told ucanews.com. “We cannot attack him. If the pope is wrong this time, I hope he will admit the mistake; if he does not admit, I hope that the future pope will point out the mistake. But in the end, it is still the pope's final decision. If you don't follow, then there is no principle, so the mainland's brothers must not rebel."

    Two of the signatories of a recent British letter in support of the underground Church told LifeSiteNews of their personal concern for Chinese Catholics.

    Catholic apologist Peter D. Williams said via email that the signatories hoped to “raise awareness of the dangers” of the Vatican treaty with the Chinese government and “register lay opposition to (it) in the public square.”

    “Silence implies consent, and therefore vocal (but rational and charitable) criticism is a necessity when the institutional Church engages in such actions.”

    Kathy Sinnott, the organizer of Ireland’s pro-life “Rosary on the Coasts,” says she has been “deeply concerned” for many years about the persecution of Catholics in China faithful to Rome. In 2005, she visited China as a Member of European Parliament and voiced her concerns.

    “I visited China as an MEP attending the WTO (World Trade Organization) Ministerial Conference in Hong Kong and had the privilege of attending daily Mass in an old Portuguese Church in Guangzhou,” Sinnott informed LifeSiteNews via email.

    “The priest told me that although they had reasonable freedom there (a western enclave), it was very different in many parts of the country where persecution was a reality,” she continued.

    Sinnott brought up the issues with Chinese officials but was not reassured.

    “They never answered and never let their smile droop but would just say ‘China has a harmonious plan,’” she recalled.

    The former MEP believes that the Vatican agreement has further endangered faithful underground Catholics.

    “In making the agreement with the Chinese government, (the Vatican has) not just betrayed the faithful Chinese Catholics but ... put them in even more danger,” she said.

    “At this stage, I can only continue to pray for the members of Mystical Body of Christ in China.”
     
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  14. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    Today's (Nov 16) first reading:

    First reading 2 John 1:4-9 ©
    The commandment which you have heard since the beginning is to live a life of love

    It has given me great joy to find that your children have been living the life of truth as we were commanded by the Father. I am writing now, dear lady, not to give you any new commandment, but the one which we were given at the beginning, and to plead: let us love one another.
    To love is to live according to his commandments: this is the commandment which you have heard since the beginning, to live a life of love.
    There are many deceivers about in the world, refusing to admit that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. They are the Deceiver; they are the Antichrist. Watch yourselves, or all our work will be lost and not get the reward it deserves. If anybody does not keep within the teaching of Christ but goes beyond it, he cannot have God with him: only those who keep to what he taught can have the Father and the Son with them.

    PF in Amoris Laetitia goes beyond the teaching of Christ.
     
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  15. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    Tomorrow's (Nov 17) Gospel:

    Gospel Luke 18:1-8 ©
    The parable of the unjust judge

    Jesus told his disciples a parable about the need to pray continually and never lose heart. ‘There was a judge in a certain town’ he said ‘who had neither fear of God nor respect for man. In the same town there was a widow who kept on coming to him and saying, “I want justice from you against my enemy!” For a long time he refused, but at last he said to himself, “Maybe I have neither fear of God nor respect for man, but since she keeps pestering me I must give this widow her just rights, or she will persist in coming and worry me to death.”’
    And the Lord said ‘You notice what the unjust judge has to say? Now will not God see justice done to his chosen who cry to him day and night even when he delays to help them? I promise you, he will see justice done to them, and done speedily. But when the Son of Man comes, will he find any faith on earth?’
     
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  16. djmoforegon

    djmoforegon Powers

    This year's Vatican nativity scene? Taken from a twitter thread...

    From this year's Vatican nativity scene: Pope Francis - the new Messiah for the 21st Century? Appearing transfigured (look at the lighter shading), opening his arms to embrace the world. This is getting scary, guys and girls...

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    djm, I thought that you were kidding about this being part of the Vatican Nativity scene. I am waiting to see Padraig's (and other's here too) comments about this.

    If everything is going to be made entirely of sand, I can't help but be reminded of the destruction of both Pompeii and also Sodom and Gomorrah which were turned to ash and salt but a very similar look to sand imho. Yes, this is very scary and maybe prophetic.

    ***

    Here is Father Goring's latest video,



    and the Vortex's latest video,

    .

    I think that Michael Voris nails it when he states the Cardinal Cupich is behaving more like a corporate chieftain than a successor of the apostles and Voris may be answering Father Goring's question in a sense about a corruption network. What we see occurring is similar to the way a corporation would handle things.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
  18. djmoforegon

    djmoforegon Powers

    I'm hoping it's a satire piece, but this story was on Vatican News.


    [​IMG]Sand sits in St. Peter's Square, waiting for the sculptor's hand
    VATICAN
    Sand sculptors prepare Nativity Scene in St. Peter’s Square
    The traditional Christmas tree and Nativity Scene will in a few short weeks once again adorn St. Peter’s Square. The many tourists and faithful visiting the square this year are likely to experience something new, though: a Nativity Scene made entirely out of sand.



    By Joachim Teigen

    Some of the 700 tons of sand required to make “Jesolo Sand Nativity” has already arrived, as work begins to prepare St. Peter’s Square for this year’s Christmas celebration.

    The preparations and sculpturing, alongside the arrival and decoration of the Christmas tree, will culminate in the inauguration of the Nativity scene and the Christmas tree lighting on 7 December.

    From Venice to Rome
    In 2017, the Mayor of Jesolo in Venice, Italy, presented an ambitious idea to the Patriarch of Venice: to bring the “Jesolo Sand Nativity” scene all the way to Rome. Now, one year later, work is underway to build this immense crèche. In the weeks to come, more sand will be brought into the square and pressed into boxes, from which a great pyramid will be erected. Later, four sculptors from around the globe will arrive in the Vatican to bring the sand to life.

    The project has already been realised in the Italian town of Jesolo since 2002, and in the past it has incorporated themes of relevance to contemporary society.

    The legacy of Pope St. John Paul II
    It was during the Pontificate of Pope St. John Paul II that the tradition of erecting a Christmas tree and a life-size nativity scene began. The first installation was created in 1982, and since that time it has become an honour for cities and sculptors alike to provide the Vatican with their Christmas decorations.

    This year, the Christmas tree is a spruce from the forests of Pordenone in Italy, donated by the provincial authorities there. Both the donators of the Christmas tree and the people behind the “Sand Nativity” project will be received in an audience with the Holy Father prior to the inauguration on 7 December.

    After which the many people visiting the Vatican will experience a beautifully decorated Christmas tree and the largest sand nativity scene in Christendom, right next to the largest Catholic Church in the world.
     
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  19. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    THIS MIGHT GET ME FIRED!

     
  20. Agnes rose

    Agnes rose Archangels

    Where is our Jesus? So sad
     
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