I'm sorry, I must not have been too clear. I agree about Fr Kalchik. What I meant to ask is, how does one draw the line between obedience to lawful superiors in the church from servitude to them?
You were clear He dodged a bullet There have been recent posts on the forum that tell of the horrors One post mentions that there are many conservative priests in “treatment “ because they are obedient I am not sure who posted them It’s only been in the last day or so You can find them My feeling is that the criteria are arbitrary for “impoundment “ just now but I fear the future. Edit I just found it on page 3 of this thread Post by Carol
As I mentioned before the exact same thing happened to Fr John O’Connor in the early 80’s. He blew the whistle on this corruption in the Chicago Dominicans and they came after him like a steam roller. He was tipped off by a friend what they had in mind and escaped. Otherwise he would have been sent to a psych ward. He was drummed out of the Dominicans. I believe he ended up living with his sister. He has since died. To my mind he is a martyr. You can find his talks on you tube. Chicago appears to be a cess pool of secular and church corruption. Cardinal George was the exception.
I only knew because a friend had a video about him made in the 90’s and loaned it to me. I think Malachi Martin incorporated his experiences into the character of Fr Damian Slattery OP in Windswept House.
Its all awful; but I am glad it's out in the open. That priest has loads and loads of courage. I suppose the Cardinal has smoke coming out his ears at the moment. This hasn't turned out very well for him, to say the least. Talk about bad publicity! ....and these people love to do things very,very quietly. Wasn't it providential that Michael Voris is based right next door? I sense the Hand of God in all this.
Yes the hand of God and His Blessed Mother is running right on through this. It's like watching a drama film, you wonder..what next???? It's amazing to watch all this going down right before your very eyes. Like nine pins falling, one right after another. As though by, 'accident'. I wonder if God has Cardinal Tobin in line next for, 'Accidents'?
I was initially reticent to sign it as well, but eventually did. We, as Catholics, don't have many other ways, other than withholding donations, to make our voices heard. It reminds me of the story about St. John Vianney who heard that people in his parish were circulating a petition for his removal. He apparently called the people over so that he could sign it as well.
I'm sorry, but I don't get the answer given. I did read that article, but I'm none the wiser. Maybe I'll rephrase that question. How to differentiate servitude from obedience?
I would think that if a priest feels like his personal safety is at risk as a result of following an order, and possibly in addition to false allegations against him, then he may be justified. I wondered about where to draw the line for obedience as well. I seems like it can be a very fine line and with no hard and fast rules. A case by case basis, I would guess.
Yes obedience is everything. I would say perhps the Father kept the letter of the Law...perhaps... .. ..it is troubling; God will never give His blessing to disobedience. On the other hand there is no doubt that this flag was sacrilgeous and evil. It could be argued that not burning it would be a greater evil. I am glad I did not face this dilemma. But I don't judge the Father, perhaps he was right. But it is true that Obedience is very, very important indeed. Obedience walks hand in hand with humnilty, the very foundation stone of the Spiritual Life. But I think, from what I know I would not have burned it after receiving the Cardinal's instructions. It would have saved a lot of trouble just to dump it in the trash can in the first place I think. Nice and quiet ; no problems.
This opens up a whole new set of questions. Priests take a vow of obedience. Laity are also called to be obedient to lawful authority in the Church. Isn't it terribly confusing to be expected to know when one should obey and when one should not? Does one make a judgement based on the person who is giving the orders? Maybe it's alright not to obey if the one in authority is suspected or known to be not keeping God's commandments? Or maybe it's based on the order given?
I seem to infer that Father felt that burning was the way to go since it was protocol for disposing of blessed object I will have to view the video again Plus I think he mentioned that he did not have some service or other that he was not supposed to hold So he was obedient on that point I have to go back and view again sometime today I can’t get back to it for awhile Maybe someone else can I think Father felt he and his parishioners were justified Remember, this priest is an abuse victim
Fatima, I remember you telling us this story in the past but I had forgotten Cardinal Cupich was the priest! Remember Cardinal Cupich's following speech in which he mocks the Holy Family @ the 1:11:00 minute mark and @ the 19:40 minute mark he mentions a "true natural marriage" amongst other things ? As a "joke", he even suggests to the audience that they have a drink before the talk to help with the palatability of his statements. Hmmm. Padraig, Wow. I can't help but wonder if it is Divine Providence which finds Father Kalchick and Michael Voris living in close proximity to each other. PS- I see now that you made a similar comment! Exactly. Pray4peace, Jesus and many saints have warned us that we might be martyred for the Faith. I think that Rod Dreher said it best in his recent article posted on this thread, 'Cardinal Cupich has made Father Kalchik a “white martyr” — a Christian who has not shed blood (therefore not a “red martyr”), but who has otherwise lost everything for standing up for the truths proclaimed by the faith.' Likewise, I think that Pope Francis has made Bishop Vigano a "white martyr" also and Elizabeth Yore states as much in the following article, https://onepeterfive.com/vigano-veritas/ . PS - Both Bishop Vigano and Father Kalchik made a huge sacrifice by doing what they did. They can no longer live out in the open, at least not at this time they cannot. They did not run away but they have been martyred without any bloodshed, thank God for that! Padraig, I understand what you have stated. I probably would have done the same and gotten rid of the flag quietly but as you have also stated in another post this does appear to have "the hand of God and His Blessed Mother is running right on through this."
I support what Fr Kalchik did. He was being obedient to God, and not to man. Acts 5:29 But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men.
The liberal gay msm is spinning the story that FR. Kalchick burned the flag, but he did not. Parishioners of Resurrection Parish in Chicago, Illinois, held a rainbow flag-burning event last week, cutting up and setting on fire an LGBT flag that once hung in the sanctuary at the parish's first Mass. The event was originally scheduled for Sept. 29, the Feast of St. Michael and the Archangels, but the Chicago archdiocese — heeding complaints by gay activists — called the pastor, Fr. Paul John Kalchik, and ordered him not to hold the event. A handful of parishioners took things into their own hands and decided they would burn the flag themselves. #6104
