This is changing Traditional Catholic Teaching fro 2,000 years to suit Modern Times. This is the very definition of the Heresy of Modernism/ Realtivism. In other words we are having Heresy written right into the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Mind Boggling. https://www.ewtn.com/library/HOMELIBR/MODERSM.TXT
I wonder does the word "inadmissable" reflect matters of doctrine or does it apply to disciplinary-type procedures. Just as well Pope Francis hasn't access to a time-machine-would he ban the Crucifixion under his (strictly) humanistic worldview? I can't see how it can be acceptable that the Church is deemed to have been wrong for almost two thousand years and now this fellow knows better. If we obey this pope, we disobey nearly all the rest.
That's a good question, DeGaulle. Does "inadmissible" mean it is intrinsically evil, or does it mean that it cannot be practiced at this time even though it still potentially is morally good? In either case, the Catechism isn't meant to change with the whims of the time, but to stand for all ages. We should not publish something that is particular to only our time. Who knows when a situation could arrive again where the death penalty is necessary? I guess we now know why Cardinal Muller had to be ousted from the CDF....
Basically they are saying that 2,000 years of Catholic Teaching on the subject was not nice, therefore they are going to bin it. EXTRAORDINARILY ARROGANT.
As I remember, Pope JPII already took such differences in times and their necessary types of punishments into consideration but nonetheless thought that still, if the public can still be in danger (and there are still places in the world today that remain primitive in their public security)....perhaps also considering the prison population and the guards there too.....that the death penalty would be necessary in order to protect that continuing danger from happening.
We've crossed the line into Formal Heresy. Its no longer debatable: this pope is a FORMAL HERETIC. So...where does that leave us now?
I've placed the entire message where it belongs....Luz de Maria Message....but here is a portion of this latest most powerful translated one of July 26, 2018 which I think could apply here as well: Great changes will continue happening on Earth; Heaven will show the greatness of the power of Our House and man will not be able to hold back the Will of Our Trinity until he passes through the sieve of purification and decides for himself to be more spiritual. My beloved People: YOU WILL LIVE IN CONSTERNATION AT THE SUCCESSIVE EVENTS OF WHICH YOU WILL BE WITNESSES... REMAIN FAITHFUL TO THE DIVINE LAW AND BOUND TO THE TRUTH. MY WORD SHOULD NOT BE TRANSFORMED TO EXCUSE THE SINNER, NOR SHOULD IT BE TRANSGRESSED. (cf. Ps. 118 (119): 1-8)
I could handle the plane interviews and off the cuff remarks - after all they are not binding. But I'm having a really hard time with this.
Virtue, I wonder if this is another sign being that this change was approved on May 11th just two days before the 101st anniversary of the first apparition of Our Lady of Fatima. Amazing. What was black is now white: Pope "changes Catechism" to declare death penalty "inadmissible in all cases". https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2018/08/what-was-black-is-now-white-pope.html The Church was wrong in a major issue literally of life and death. Is the Pope a kind of "Prophet", as the "First President" of the Mormons, receiving new teachings that contradict completely teachings that the Magisterium had taught since Apostolic Times? That is what seems to come from the "alteration" of the Catechism of the Catholic Church of 1992 promoted by the current Pope and published today: The Supreme Pontiff Francis, in an audience granted on May 11, 2018, to the undersigned Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, has approved the following new text of the n. 2267 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, ordering its translation in the various languages and inserted in all editions of the mentioned Catechism: The death penalty 2267. Recourse to the death penalty on the part of legitimate authority, following a fair trial, was long considered an appropriate response to the gravity of certain crimes and an acceptable, albeit extreme, means of safeguarding the common good. Today, however, there is an increasing awareness that the dignity of the person is not lost even after the commission of very serious crimes. In addition, a new understanding has emerged of the significance of penal sanctions imposed by the state. Lastly, more effective systems of detention have been developed, which ensure the due protection of citizens but, at the same time, do not definitively deprive the guilty of the possibility of redemption. Consequently, the Church teaches, in the light of the Gospel, that “the death penalty is inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person”,[1] and she works with determination for its abolition worldwide. _______________________ [1] Francis, Address to Participants in the Meeting organized by the Pontifical Council for the Promotion of the New Evangelization, 11 October 2017: L’Osservatore Romano, 13 October 2017, 5. The anachronistic boldness in this decision is astounding: what is merely a modern view of a secularized Europe becomes a completely new teaching, without even the consideration that the current situation of the world will not remain the same for all time -- as if the secular European present of stable peace would remain forever the same, as if what was common in the past and since the dawn of time would never be possible anymore. The boldness of a personal opinion becoming a completely new and unprecedented "teaching" of the Church. If such a certain doctrine of the Church (of the possibility of the death penalty at least in some situations), affirmed by Christ Himself in Scripture -- when, confronted by Pilate who affirmed his right to inflict capital punishment, Christ told him, "You would have no authority over Me if it were not given to you from above", affirming that it is a power granted to the State in its authority, even if, as all governmental powers, it can be exercised illegitimately and unjustly -- can be changed, then anything can be changed. A "development" of doctrine that is in fact a lopsided inversion of doctrine may bring about anything: from the end of the "intrinsic disordered" nature of homosexuality to the priestly ordination of women, from the possibility of contraception in "some" cases to the acceptance of the Lutheran understanding of the Real Presence in the Eucharist as a possible interpretation of what the Church has always believed -- and so on. The current Pope has far exceeded his authority: his authority is to guard and protect the doctrine that was received from Christ and the Apostles, not to alter it according to his personal views. We are reaping the rewards of an unchecked hyper-clericalism: the same hyper-clericalism that allowed for abuses of people like Theodore McCarrick to go ignored and unpunished and now allows for the recklessness of the alteration of established doctrine received from Christ and the Apostles. Francis has violated radically the Doctrine of Papal Authority as defined by Vatican I (Pastor Aeternus: "The Holy Spirit was promised to the successors of Peter not so that they might, by his revelation, make known some new doctrine, but that, by his assistance, they might religiously guard and faithfully expound the revelation or deposit of faith transmitted by the apostles"). He is in open violation of the authority recognized to him by Christ and His Church throughout the ages: he has abused his authority by pretending to have an authority that he has not. *** Update: If it were possible to have an even more ridiculous excuse for this change, it comes from the "Letter to Bishops" by Cardinal Ladaria, the CDF prefect: 10. The new formulation of number 2267 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church desires to give energy to a movement towards a decisive commitment to favor a mentality that recognizes the dignity of every human life and, in respectful dialogue with civil authorities, to encourage the creation of conditions that allow for the elimination of the death penalty where it is still in effect. That is absolutely ridiculous, and a shameful and pathetic excuse: the Catechism is not a lobbying tool to modify laws: it is supposed to be a collection of the everlasting teachings of the Church. Labels: Bergoglian Milestones By New Catholic at Thursday, August 02, 2018 *** PS - I am including the following link which allows comments to this same article in case anyone is interested in such, https://catholictruthblog.com/2018/...ing-on-death-penalty-exceeds-papal-authority/ .
Wednesday, August 1, 2018 Bishop Schneider Speaks: A Man Against the World Written by Michael Matt | Editor | https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/in...shop-schneider-speaks-a-man-against-the-world Bishop Athanasius Schneider Below, translated by LifeSite’s Diane Montagna, is Bishop Schneider’s answer to the Catholic attitude regarding Gay Pride events. ASTANA, Kazakhstan, August 1, 2018 (LifeSiteNews): Schneider, an auxiliary bishop of Astana, Kazakhstan who grew up in the underground Church under Soviet communism, has therefore decided to issue a statement on “the correct Catholic response to ‘gay pride’ events.” The correct Catholic response to “Gay Pride” events In recent decades, “gay pride” parades started spreading through cities of the Western world. The clear objective of this constantly growing phenomenon is to take over the town squares of all the cities of the western world and, in the long term, the cities of the entire world, with the exception of Islamic countries because of fear of predictable violent counter-reactions. These demonstrations are carried out with enormous financial and logistical commitments, accompanied by propaganda supported by the most influential powers of public life, namely political elites, social media and powerful economic and financial bodies. Such unanimous support on the part of these public bodies was typical of historical totalitarian systems in order to impose a certain ideology on society. The so-called “gay pride” demonstrations unmistakably resemble the propaganda marches of various totalitarian political regimes of the past. However, there is one very important voice in public life that has not yet officially, or to a large extent, joined this unanimous chorus of support for so-called “gay pride” parades. This voice is that of the Catholic Church. The totalitarianism of homosexualist gender ideology is pursuing its most ambitious goal, which is to conquer the last bastion of resistance, i.e. the Catholic Church. In the meantime, this goal has unfortunately been in some way achieved, since it has been observed that an increasing number of priests, and even some bishops and cardinals, publicly express in various ways their support for these totalitarian marches, called “gay pride.” These priests, bishops and cardinals thereby become agents and promoters of an ideology that represents a direct offense to God and to the dignity of the human person, created male and female, created in the image and likeness of God. Gender ideology, or the ideology of homosexuality, represents a revolt against the creative work of God, which is so admirably wise and loving. It is a revolt against the creation of the human being in both sexes — male and female — which are necessarily and wonderfully complementary. Homosexual or lesbian acts profane the male or female body, which is the temple of God. In fact, the Holy Spirit says, “If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, and that temple you are” (1 Cor 3:17). The Holy Spirit declares in Sacred Scripture that homosexual acts are ignominious, since they are contrary to nature as it was created by God: “For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct” (Rom 1:26-28). The Holy Spirit then declares that persons who commit gravely sinful acts, including homosexual acts, will not inherit eternal life: “Do not be deceived: neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Cor 6:9-10). Yet the grace of Christ has such a power that it transforms an idolater, an adulterer, or a practicing homosexual into a new man. The quoted text from the Word of God goes on to say: “And such were some of you [idolaters, adulterers, sodomites]! But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God" (1 Cor 6:11). Faced with this truth and reality about grace, the light of hope and true progress shines brightly on the anti-Divine and anti-human scene of the ideology and practice of homosexuality; that is, the hope and real possibility that a person who performs homosexual acts can be transformed into a new man, created in the truth of holiness: “You did not so learn Christ! —assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus. Put off your old nature which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and put on the new nature, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness” (Eph 4:20-24). These words of God are the only message worthy of hope and liberation that a Christian, and even more so a priest and a bishop, should offer people who perform homosexual acts or propagate gender ideology. The totalitarianism and intolerance of gender ideology, by their own logic, also requires totalitarian adherence. All sectors of society, including the Catholic Church, must therefore be obliged to express somehow their acceptance of this ideology. One of the most widespread and concrete public means for imposing this ideology lies in the so-called “gay pride” parades. It cannot be ruled out that the Catholic Church, in the not too distant future, will be faced with a situation similar to the situation of persecution by the Roman Empire in the first three centuries, when adherence to the totalitarian ideology of idolatry was also obligatory for Christians. At that time, the test or verification of such adherence consisted in the civil and politically correct act of burning several grains of incense in front of the statue of an idol or of the emperor. Today, instead of burning several grains of incense, the gesture of solidarity with the “gay pride” parades is offered through a warm welcome from clergy and even through a special prayer service in support of the alleged rights to homosexual activities and to the spread of their ideology. We are witnessing an incredible scenario, in which some priests and even bishops and cardinals, without blushing, are already offering grains of incense to the idol of homosexuality or gender ideology, to the applause of the powerful ones of this world, that is, to the applause of politicians, social media giants and powerful international organizations. What is the correct response of a Christian, a Catholic, a priest and a bishop to the so-called “gay pride” phenomenon? In the first place, one must proclaim with charity the Divine truth about the creation of the human person, proclaim the truth of the objective psychological and sexual disorder of homosexual tendencies, and then talk about the truth concerning needed and discreet help for people with homosexual tendencies, so that they receive care and liberation from their psychological disability. Then one must also proclaim the Divine truth about the gravely sinful character of homosexual acts and of the homosexual lifestyle, since they are offensive to God’s will. One must proclaim with truly fraternal concern the Divine truth about the danger of the eternal loss of the souls of practicing and unrepentant homosexuals. In addition, by showing civil courage and using all peaceful and democratic means available, one must protest against contempt for Christian convictions and against the public display of degrading obscenities. One must protest against the imposition — on the populations of entire cities and towns — of marches characterized by political-ideological militancy. The most important thing, however, lies in the spiritual means. The most powerful and precious response is expressed in public and private acts of reparation to the Divine holiness and majesty, so gravely and publicly offended by so-called “gay pride” parades. Inseparable from acts of reparation is fervent prayer for the conversion and eternal salvation of the souls of the promoters and activists of homosexual ideology, and especially of the souls of the pitiable people who practice homosexuality. continued...
continued from above... May the following words of the Supreme Pontiffs strengthen the correct Catholic response to the so-called “gay pride” phenomenon. Pope John Paul II protested against the “gay pride” parade in Rome, in 2000, saying: I feel obliged, now, to mention the well-known [gay pride] demonstrations held in Rome in the past few days. In the name of the Church of Rome I can only express my deep sadness at … the offense to the Christian values of a city that is so dear to the hearts of Catholics throughout the world. The Church cannot be silent about the truth, because she would fail in her fidelity to God the Creator and would not help to distinguish good from evil. (Angelus address, July 9, 2000) The reigning Pontiff, Pope Francis, has on various occasions warned of the danger of gender ideology, when for example, he said: You, Irina, mentioned a great enemy to marriage today: the theory of gender. Today there is a world war to destroy marriage. Today there are ideological colonizations which destroy, not with weapons, but with ideas. Therefore, there is a need to defend ourselves from ideological colonizations. (Meeting with priests, religious, seminarians and pastoral workers, Tbilisi, October 1, 2016) On another occasion, he said: We are experiencing a moment of the annihilation of man as the image of God. I would like to conclude with this aspect, since behind all this there are ideologies. In Europe, America, Latin America, Africa, and in some countries of Asia, there are genuine forms of ideological colonization taking place. And one of these – I will call it clearly by its name – is [the ideology of] ‘gender’. Today children – children! – are taught in school that everyone can choose his or her sex. Why are they teaching this? Because the books are provided by the persons and institutions that give you money. These forms of ideological colonization are also supported by influential countries. And this is terrible! In a conversation with Pope Benedict, who is in good health and very perceptive, he said to me: ‘Holiness, this is the age of sin against God the Creator’. He is very perceptive. God created man and woman; God created the world in a certain way… and we are doing the exact opposite. God gave us things in a ‘raw’ state, so that we could shape a culture; and then with this culture, we are shaping things that bring us back to the ‘raw’ state! Pope Benedict’s observation should make us think. ‘This is the age of sin against God the Creator’. (Meeting with the Polish Bishops on the occasion of the XXXI World Youth Day, Krakow, July 27, 2016) The true friends of people who promote and perform degrading actions during so-called “gay pride” parades are Christians who say: I will not burn even one grain of incense before the idol of homosexuality and gender theory, even if — God forbid! — my parish priest or my bishop should do so. I will make private and public acts of reparation and offer intercessory prayers for the eternal salvation of the souls of all those who promote and practice homosexuality. I will not be afraid of the new ideological-political totalitarianism of gender theory, for Christ is with me. And since Christ has conquered all the totalitarian systems of the past, He will also conquer the totalitarianism of gender ideology in our own day. Christus vincit, Christus regnat, Christus imperat! July 28, 2018 + Athanasius Schneider, Auxiliary Bishop of the Archdiocese of Mary Most Holy in Astana Remnant Comment: May God bless and keep this most courageous prince of the Church. Any person claiming to be a traditional Catholic, and yet criticizing Bishop Athanasius Schneider for doing this or for not doing that, should be dismissed as a rank interloper who can in no sense identify with the likes of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, Michael Davies, and other pioneers of this movement who would have embraced Bishop Schneider as a gift from God. As one who's been in the fight for Catholic restoration all his life, I do not hesitate to publicly thank God for this man and to pledge The Remnant's prayer and unconditional support for his work. Please, God, guide and protect him, and Mary keep. MJM Published in Headline News Around the World
Could be wrong, but I don't think the Catechism is infallible. If this is meant to be an infallible teaching of the Church, it means that the Holy Spirit has changed his mind again. Or it could mean that Pope Francis believes he is the Holy Spirit. Certainly many of his most ardent supporters speak and act as though this Pope (and only this Pope) is the Holy Spirit come in the flesh. Oddly enough, the same people lean towards the belief that what Jesus said about marriage and adultery only applied to first century Jews; that sodomy is not a sin provided it's in a monogamous relationship; that a sexual relationship outside marriage is a channel of God's grace; that women should be ordained; that priests are free to have sexual relations with women or men provided it's consensual sex with adults; and that abortion is ok provided it is safe, legal and rare. There is another possibility - the elephant in the room - that Pope Francis doesn't have the charism of infallibility because it only applies to Popes who are true to the Deposit of Faith and whose ascent to the papacy was valid. With every new weird pronouncement or action by Pope Francis, that possibility becomes ever more real. This pronouncement about the death penalty comes at a very convenient time for Pope Francis and his close advisers. It removes from the headlines the questions about homosexual predators in seminaries, and his own and his closest advisors' links with Cardinal McCarrick. Very convenient. Incidentally, I would be very much opposed to the re-introduction of the death penalty in my own country. I just think it hypocritical for a Pope or any Catholic to oppose the execution of convicted murderers while playing down the far more widespread execution of innocent pre-born infants. Added to that, we don't know whether at some time in the future currently stable societies will degenerate to the stage where the death penalty is the only practicable means of keeping society safe from mass murderers.
I am trying to see the positive side, which is, that at least he has not declared death penalty to be an "intrinsic evil", which would mean to judge God himself as an evil doer - that would be outward formal and material heresy! The Pope is saying that under the current social circumstances, the death penalty is inadmissible. It is a moral application of the Deposit of the Faith but doesn't change that Deposit, so it's not infallible but more a matter of prudence. He may be wrong, but he is not saying the Church was wrong in the past. Still, the gut feeling I get (as I am sure many of you too get ) is that the teachings of the Church are now malleable and liquid, that they can be changed any time. It's a horrible feeling! This quote has helped me cope with the current circumstances and the temptation of Schism: "St. Augustine appealed to the securus judicat orbis terrarum—the secure judgment of the whole world, by which he meant the Catholic Church. Yes, but what do you do when that judgment is unclear or in heated dispute? Augustine’s answer is that you wait, in firm communion with the Catholic Church and in firm confidence that the Holy Spirit will, as promised, clarify the matter in due course. The point is that apostolic doctrine cannot be maintained over time without apostolic ministry, meaning ministry that is both apostolic in its origins and apostolic in its governing authority. This argument is brilliantly advanced in his polemic against the Donatists, who appealed to St. Cyprian as precedent for refusing to recognize the sacraments of the traditores, those who had lapsed in time of persecution. Yes, answered Augustine, the holy Cyprian was confused, and admitted as much; but he awaited clarification by the securus judicat orbis terrarum. The one thing he would not do, unlike the Donatists, was to break communion with the Catholic Church." (https://entangledstates.org/2006/07/29/on_reaching_con/) We need to be patient, pray and have confidence in the Holy Spirit - He will bring about the clarification we need about the truth of this Pontificate and its changes. We just need to wait, be faithful and remain in communion with the Holy Mother Church, and make many sacrifices!
I admit to being dumbfounded by all this. It has really shaken me up. Thank God I am away camping next week and will have time to reflect and pray. I am hoping against hope that the cardinals will speak and maybe act. Oh well it is God's Church and He will take care of it. As Padre Pio said, 'Pray hope and don't worry'. As St Teresa of Avila said , always keep your peace. I admit this is a struggle at the moment.
Well it's certainly a time for deep prayer and reflection. Time to ask the Holy Spirit to give us light. Come Holy Spirit. Certainly I woudl regard this as formal heresy, but who am I? I am no theologian.. But where does that leave us? But I was always taught that he or she who contradicts the Catechism is a heretic by definition. What truly awful times we are lining in!!
Hard to know what "in Communion with" means any more. You can be Lutheran, holding the belief that the Papacy is the Anti-Christ and yet receive Communion - essentially be "in Communion with" - but being Catholic and dissenting from innovative teaching by a very dubious Pope makes you a heretic. As a matter of interest, is the Catechism applicable to the universal Church or just developed Western countries with plenty of money to keep murders in jail for seven or eight years before releasing them back into society?
As a note, the Inquisition used to punish child molesters with death penalty - burning at the stake ! as long as they were over 25 years old. Maybe we need to bring death penalty for child molesters back given the insane outbreak of homosexual priests among the ranks of our Church - it will be a great deterrent. Ironically though, the Pope is just now declaring it inadmissible under all circumstances... "The first sodomite was burned by the Inquisition in Valencia in 1572, and those accused included 19% clergy, 6% nobles, 37% workers, 19% servants, and 18% soldiers and sailors.[82] Nearly all of almost 500 cases of sodomy between persons concerned the relationship between an older man and an adolescent, often by coercion, with only a few cases where the couple were consenting homosexual adults." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition
