Prophesy - GSWYL

- Warning: no problem from me, and I'd assume others. St. Faustina as well as Marie Julie Jahenny sem to point towards one. Notice that I lend credence to an "unapproved" visionary, so let's put that line to rest. Good to see you don't have a problem with the Warning, as so many alleged prophecies speak tthers have spoken against the Warning.

- Antichrist: really? Yes, really! It is has been spoken of in many messages and also by Cardinal Karol Wojtyla (Pope John Paul): "We are now standing in the face of the greatest historical confrontation humanity has ever experienced. I do not think that the wide circle of the American Society, or the whole wide circle of the Christian Community realize this fully. We are now facing the final confrontation between the Church and the anti-church, between the gospel and the anti-gospel, between Christ and the antichrist. The confrontation lies within the plans of Divine Providence. It is, therefore, in God's Plan, and it must be a trial which the Church must take up, and face courageously."

-Fall of Satan: ditto If you believe the fall of Satan is near, then you have to accept the rest of Rev: 19&20, which speaks about the Antichrist and False Prophet and the eventual era of peace.

Era of peace: Fatima, nuff said. Not clear here whether you support the Era of Peace our Lady of Fatima spoke of and Rev:20 speaks of (1000 years) or not. Many reject it and some think it has already taken place

- Spiritual reign: We will differ here, Christ is reigning now in the Eucharist. He has ushered his kingdom already. May I suggest Scott Hahn for further reading. Does Scott Hahn's book(s) have imprimatur, as does Father Gobbi's blue book with double imprimatur, as it relates to a spiritual Eucharistic reign of Christ after the purification?

So no, "we" have no problem with any of those things. You can safely stop repeating that we do, that's not true. So, it is apparent that "we" are not all in harmony, as some have problems with what you accept and others will not, as they have stated on other posts.

Do I believe in those aforementioned messages? Almost sure not, but each for their own reasons that I would be happy to elaborate on in a separate thread. What I would like to see is where you find any of them I mentioned, saying anything contrary to scripture or church teaching. Because, I can assure you that Father Gobbi's blue book supports all of questionable points I have made in his own messages, including the Eucharistic reign of Christ on earth and his book has double imprimatur, which many suggest is necessary. So I know that the areas you question are NOT contrary to Church teaching.

Here is what gets me to post, when you post as a matter of fact: "nothing in it is contrary to scripture" See my comment above on this.

"they fit into the current prophetic consensus" See my posts on this and if you want me to show you where Father Gobbi's messages also support the near presence of the Antichrist, the Era of Peace, the Eucharistic Reign or any of the other teachings within the prophetic consensus of modern messages let me know so I can bring to rest that they are not apart from church teaching or scripture.

"revealing for those with ears to hear" Yes, there are those who reject what they refuse to study and understand. That is closing ones ears to what God desires his church to know in these times. Not essential for salvation, but essential for preparing nonetheless, or God would not have spoke to these truths coming soon.

These are all OPINION statements that you have appointed yourself as an objective judge based on your own understanding of prophecy/scripture. No, they are much more than my opinion, as once again I refer you to Father Gobbi's blue book with double imprimatur, so I can safely say they are not contrary to church teachings. When I see statements such as those, I am compelled to post the questions that have not been answered. I post in charity for the good of souls who may read it, and try to stay on point without getting personal. Calling people "liars" is not appropriate. When people make false accusations, such as the book GSWYL speaks of Garabandal and it clearly does not and other statements it clearly does not, you can call it as you wish, but it is not true. You spoke of a private message given to Verne, that mentioned Garabandal, 4 years after the book I endorse was written.

Perhaps you can address the outstanding points instead of ignoring them and making false assumptions about why I am posting I have now addressed your concerns in charity and truth. I have made no false assumptions, as I was not addressing it to you, but to anyone who comes on to this thread to try and spew hatred towards Verne's alleged message's and his good, holy friend Cletus, who was an outstanding man of faith and blessed with many spiritual gifts that he used to glorify our God.

 

Also this: Frodo says, “He has ushered His kingdom already” - true, but not in its fullness, otherwise, why has the Church been praying for 2,000 years, “THY KINGDOM COME, THY WILL BE DONE ON EARTH AS ITMIS IN HEAVEN.”? Also, I have read Scott Hahn’s books and no where does he say that the kingdom of God has come in its fullness. Jesus says this through Luisa, “...the Kingdom of Our Will is already established. We know it’s numbers, we know them all by name. We already feel them palpitating in ardent Love. O how much We love them and yearn for the time to deliver them into the Daylight of Our Will on earth.” Vol. 36
You see -there is no time with God. It is all a single point. Fiat!

 

Really now?!? Where is “hatred” being spewed?

 

Be specific please.

 

Be specific please.

 

No, I don’t have time to waste looking up old posts I’d rather not revisit.

 

Brain, you might not feel this is hatred, but I assume God does towards a messenger he used to spread his word. I will only post one, but there are more.
Post #424 from Dolours... As to Verne, whatever voice he was hearing wasn't God the Father. His friend's painting is a self portrait and not a likeness of God the Father who is pure spirit.

 

That was Satan. This is Father Roux. Do you really expect people to take you seriously when making such a comparison in order to prove your point?? One is a part of scripture to prove a point. The other is a particular discernment of one experienced in such re: private revelations, giving reasons for the rationale of a contemporary message, reminding the current faithless population of those truths held within those living scriptures. Some minimalists of today give the impression that people must think of the Word as now dead or limited by time and not continuing in fullness only through the guidance now by the Holy Spirit through the interventions from heaven that continue. Jesus emphasized to those who did not want things to go even beyond that time and into the future, as yet unknown, by attempting to convince them that if He did not leave them that Holy Spirit would not be able to come and continue the Divine Will of the Father with Whom He was One. One must not separate the Trinity by holding only to one Person and one earthly and finite time period.

 

Then leave out, as well, the easy generalizations of derision without a foundation in fact.

 

As to the former head of the MMP, Father Albert Roux, which has tens of thousands of faithful priest within its movement had this to say after reading the book God Speaks Will You Listen on June 27, 2011.

June 27, 2011:
"I must say that I did not learn anything new from God's messages from Verne. I have read many messages from other locutions and prophets from various countries. What I found however, is that the messages to Verne present a pretty good summary of the many other messages. Also, I noticed that messages in question do not present a timetable as such , but some kind of sequence or order of the many catastrophic and events to come that is not necessarily found in other recipients messages that was quite interesting.

I have not discovered anything that contradicted the teachings of the Church or the Holy Scriptures. One particular aspect in these messages that I found quite interesting is the fact that the Lord gives Verne the biblical references corresponding to the messages. I found that to be very precious and assuring. This is a great help in the understanding of the messages authenticity. I would not be afraid of sharing them with others who are in initiated with such messages and also where there is good need of conversion and preparation. Keep in mind however, that prophecies can change if peoples submit to the will of God. I am interested in sharing this book with certain people, if you would allow me to keep it." signed Father Albert G Roux

 

No, this is too well accepted here at MOG to deny now.

Examples of your so called “generalizations of derision” are to be seen on this very thread.

 

Dolours:

3. This is the kind of statement that bothers me:
"Meanwhile those who take advantage of the permissions granted even before official approval are the ones who will benefit from the graces and instructions given by the Mother there for living out these grave times."
The implication is that there are graces available in Medjugorje which are somehow greater than the sanctifying grace available through the Sacraments of the Church.

Although you didn't identify the one making the comment, I believe I made that statement....and nowhere in my statement or expressed thinking is there contained what you "imply"....that there are some kind of "graces available in Medj. which are greater than sanctifying grace available through the Sacraments of the Church". Don't invent or project your own embellishments on to another or one could have reason to question your own basis in facts for your own opinions. BTW, the very life of faith in Medjugorje is based upon those "Sacraments of the Church". That life is what was witnessed and lived by the Vatican's own "ambassador" there who studied that life in order to be able to report on it back to the Vatican, which report was very positive, and who has now been placed permanently there as the representative from the Vatican. It's bad enough to try to fence others in but it's a sad result to then fence one's own self in to the degree that one isn't even open to what has so far been established, and permitted, by the Church that he has insisted to be the best guide for one's own judgements on such things.

 

Where?

 

Brian, this thread has been attacked from the onset of its conception. Not on the substance of any one message, but rather in its messenger and his best friend Cletus. Also, much opposition on this thread that have nothing to do with the messages, but rather ones generalizations of them in hopes to stifle them. These messages have endured much much worse attacks from the evil one from the conception of putting them into a book print, so it is not surprising to me or Verne that they continue. Every message needed prayed over, one at a time, before all 58 could put into a book format in Word document and sent to the printer. I am not the least bit surprised that Satan has tried so very hard to make sure this book was not known and still is. If not for a very holy man, Cletus, who had little money and spent every bit of his inheritance in having $20,000 books made, as he felt God compelled him to do, these messages would never have been known. I didn't know Cletus, but learned much about him over the past few years and he had many gifts from God that he used to fulfill His will until being taken home to heaven. At the risk of having Cletus being ridiculed again, I will just say he healed many, many people from illnesses by just shaking their hand and sometimes praying over them and even though he was illiterate, God infused scripture in him, which he used to evangelize many souls to God before he died.

 

Thank you Fatima.

We could argue Fr. Gobbi and the spiritual reign until the cows come home, but I don't want to get into that here.

But it seems the points still stand, though now I see why you thought I was lying:

I never restricted the messages to only those in the book. You misread that.


Also, you forgot the major point in that his understanding of the glorified bodies is against Church tradition and teaching.

All the point still stand.

- His messages present, at the very least, a tacit endorsement of Christina Gallagher. The difficulties with her are well documented, but the reader can suit themselves.

- The messages also lend endorsement to Garabandal, which contradicts Christina Gallagher in some aspects (WW3). Readers should be concerned as both cannot be correct.

- Messages contradict Church teaching and tradition as to the timing and sequence of the glorified bodies. This is very clear in the scriptures, CCC, and tradition/Church fathers. I could provide quotes, but I'm hoping I don't have to.


- Even if you ignore that last point ( which is not advisable) it makes no sense that Satan will attack the Church AFTER we all have glorified bodies. By definition they are immortal and incapable of feeling pain. It fails even the logic test.

- Messenger was a member of the occult. This is a serious thing that the Church has urged the faithful to be very cautious about. He should really submit his messages to the proper Ecclesiastical authorities. It is unprecedented that an ex-witch receives messages and does not have to go through the proper channels for approval. In fact, in most instances, Our Lady/Lord insist on this themselves in the messages.

All these things that I have stated are true. All present difficulties to those discerning, albeit in various degrees.

For these reasons I do think that the messages are problematic and pose a danger to the faithful.

 

Not true, see above.

 

This sounds true. That should kind of be step one.

 

Frodo, I will address your main concern and that is on the glorified bodies. The error you make, is in assuming that because the Church teaches that the just will receive a glorified body after the Last Judgement, this does not conclude that the just after the "first resurrection" (Rev:20) can not also receive glorified bodies after Christ's return during His Eucharistic reign and era of peace, while living in the divine will. Prophecy is not stagnant and God has always used it to provide an understanding for the future. Authentic prophecy cannot contradict Scripture or Church teaching, but it can and does certainly expand it in God's time. The Church has never spoken on this authoritatively. This message of Verne's brings clarity on a point that will have to wait and see on.

"The rest of the dead lived not, till the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection." [Apocalypse (Revelation) 20:5] "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection. In these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ; and shall reign with him a thousand years." [Apocalypse (Revelation) 20:6]

 

For those who are reading these posts and have not read GSWYL messages, here is one that explains the glorified bodies after the first resurrection.

10-23-07 My People: Hear O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord. Thou shall love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with the whole soul and with thy whole strength. And these words which I command thee this day, shall be in thy heart. Deuteronomy 6:5-6. These words still apply to my house of Israel today. My son Jesus Christ is the seed promised to Abraham in whom all the nations of the world are blessed. Today, my church is the new Israel. My people, study these words carefully from your Father in heaven. In Exodus 19:5-6, listen to my words to my people: If therefore you will hear my voice, and keep my covenant, you shall be my peculiar possession above all people: for all the earth is mine. And you shall be to me a priestly kingdom, and a holy nation. These are the words thou shalt speak to the children of Israel. Now my people read I Peter 2:9: But you are a chosen generation, a kingly priesthood, a holy nation, a purchased people: that you may declare his virtues, who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:

My people of Israel today, you are that holy nation delivered from the darkness of Egypt or sin and purchased by the blood of the lamb. Those of you in sanctifying grace make up my nation of Israel today. Listen to the response of my people in Exodus 19:8: And we the people answered together: All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. My people, at baptism and at confirmation, you made the same promise to God Almighty. You promised to renounce Satan, his lies, and his works. You promised to renounce sin and follow my commandments. Do you, my people, understand that you made a promise to almighty God? Are you truly fulfilling your vows to Almighty God? If not, repent of your sins and receive my mercy through the blood of my son Jesus Christ. Now my people, read the consequences of my children of Israel’s disobedience to my commands and their vows to Almighty God. Deuteronomy 1: 29-32,33-36,38a. And I said to you: Fear not, neither be ye afraid of them: The Lord God, who is your leader, himself will fight for you, as he did in Egypt in the sight of all. And in the wilderness (as thou hast seen), the Lord thy God hath carried thee, as a man is won't to carry his little son, all the way that you have come, until you came to this place. And yet, for all this you did not believe the Lord your God. And when the Lord had heard the voice of your words, he was angry and swore, and said: Not one of the men of this wicked generation shall see the good land, which I promised with an oath to your fathers: Except Caleb the son of Jephone: for he shall see it, and to him I will give the land that he hath trodden upon, and to his children, because he hath followed the Lord. But Josue the son of Nun,thy minister, he shall go in for thee.

In case, my people, you do not think these words apply to you today, please read: I Corinthians 10:11. Now all these things happened to them in figure: and they are written for our correction, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Now read Hebrews 3:15-19. While it is said, Today if you shall hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in that provocation. For some who heard did provoke: but not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. And with whom was he offended forty years? Was it not with them that sinned,whose carcasses were overthrown in the desert? And to whom did he swear, that they should not enter into his rest: but to them that were incredulous? And we see that they could not enter in, because of unbelief. Let us therefore hasten to enter into that rest: lest any man fall into the same example of unbelief. Hebrews 3:11.

My people, notice whom these words are written to. It is not the ungodly and sinner, but my House of Israel or my church. My people, do not let the sin of unbelief prevent you from entering my rest. I created the world in six days. On the seventh day, I rested from the work of creation as Genesis 2:1-3 states. My people, this era of yours is soon coming to an end. The sixth day of creation is finished. The seventh day will be called the era of peace. This is a mystery which has been hidden from mankind for many years. My prophets have described these times to my people. Isaiah 30:26: And the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be seven fold, as the light of seven days: in the day when the Lord shall bind up the wounds of his people, and shall heal the stroke of their wound. Now read Isaiah 65: 17-25. This is a description of my era of peace.

To repeat myself, the seventh day of creation is the fulfillment of the era of peace. Now read Apocalypse 20:1-7. These verses also describe the era of peace. The casting of the man of sin and his followers into the pool of fire, marks the end of the 6th day of creation. At that time, I will renew my creation and the seventh day will begin. This day has been described as lasting 1000 years. Remember what my word states: II Peter 3:8: But of this one thing be not ignorant, my beloved, that one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The entire era of peace is described as a time period of the seventh day or a thousand years. Only I the Lord God knows the length of the era of peace. During this era of peace, my son Jesus will reign through my Catholic church. This can be called the Eucharistic reign of my son. Do not be confused with the millennial heresy. My son is not going to reign in the flesh in the temporal City of Jerusalem. This is a heretical teaching. My son is going to reign in his Eucharistic glory in the New Jerusalem, which is my church. My son will only return in the flesh at the end of the era of peace or human history, to judge mankind at the last judgment. Time will not exist during my era of peace, as you understand it. Apocalypse20:5-6 states: The rest of the dead lived not, till the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection. In these the second death hath no power. But they shall be priests of God and of Christ: and shall reign with him a thousand years. This first resurrection occurs in the era of peace.My saints will be resurrected and receive glorified bodies and walk among my people,teaching and instructing the Catholic faith. This has been described as the temporal kingdom by the Church Fathers. This will be the Promised Land my children of Israel will inherit. My Will will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Listen to the following words carefully. Only those who trust totally in God Almighty will inherit the Promised Land. Remember only 2 men, Josue and Caleb, entered the Promised Land in the Old Testament. To enter the era of peace, you must abandon yourself totally to my will. You must live the consecrations made to my daughter Mary and my son Jesus. You must follow the teachings of my Catholic Church, and pick up your cross daily following my son Jesus Christ. If you do not follow these words, you cannot enter my era of peace. The sin of unbelief prevented my children from entering the Promised Land in the Old Testament, and it will once again prevent my children from entering the era of peace. Let go of your attachment to earthly desires and attractions. You must be willing to be persecuted and totally dependent on your Lord and Savior. Remember: And unto whomsoever much is given, of him much shall be required: and to whom they have committed much, of him they will demand the more. Luke 12:48 My Catholic children, you have been given the complete truth. Do not reject your Catholic faith, for you will be held to the highest standard on the Day of Judgment. Read soberly II Peter 2:20-21: For if, flying from the pollution's of the world, through the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they be again entangled in them and overcome: their latter state is become unto them worse than the former. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of justice, than after they have known it, to turn back from that holy commandment which was delivered to them.

Now read Hebrews 10:29-31: How much more, do you think he deserveth worse punishments, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath esteemed the blood of the testament unclean, by which he was sanctified, and hath offered an affront to the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said: Vengeance belongeth to me, and I will repay. And again: The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Do not think these words are only written to the clergy and the religious orders. These words are written to all those who have taken the vows of baptism, confirmation, and who have made consecrations to my daughter Mary and my Son Jesus Christ. Your vows have set you apart from the world and you are my new children of Israel. If you reject your vows to your Father and you refuse to repent, there is not a hot enough place in hell for you. For you have tasted of my goodness, received my mercy and graces, and have the Holy Trinity residing in your soul. Do not reject so great a salvation. I repeat myself a final time: Trust in the Lord God Almighty completely, live your vows and promises to your Lord and Savior, and enter into my rest on my seventh day and eternally on the eighth day. These words are from God Almighty to those who have ears to hear. Amen.

 

Fatima, respectfully. There is a huge difference between private revelation, locutions, and answers to questions vs. revelations allegedly from the Almighty and meant for / directed at a public / world wide audience. We may audibly hear God speak, witness a miracle, or be given answers to prayers or questions from God. Alleluia for these mercies.

But there is a huge difference between these deeply personal revelations and messages allegedly from God to a wider / global audience on a prophetic level. A vast difference. Such revelations allegedly from God and understood to be aimed at the Church or Christians at large should be subject to some kind of scrutiny or theological check from a higher authority than the seer and his or her friends and supporters. Even deeply personal revelations which will never leave the hearer might be passed along to a priest for scrutiny. This is especially true if these messages are meant to be read, believed on, and acted on by millions of hearers.

It is good to have hope that an alleged revelation is authentic. But being careful and submitting such possible revelations to the Church for review and judgement is better. Has GSWYL been handed over to the Church formally for theological scrutiny?