This is not directed at you Padraig (I know you agree with me): We, including me, are all to blame for the state of the Church. Let this sink in and say to oneself: "I am to blame". We need to wake up and realize this. The state of the Church is a result of more and more members of the body of Christ less and less acting like the head. Jesus went away and prayed constantly to commune with his Father so that His will would always be aligned with His Father. Mary did the same thing so that Her yes would always be yes to God's will and so that the Holy Spirit could fill her with His fruits including Wisdom and Knowledge. The Blindness that we are seeing from our priests, Bishops, Cardinals, and yes even the Pope is the result of the evil fog of sin. The solution is the solution of the people of Ninevah (put on sackcloth and beat your chest, and pray for forgiveness). In my effort to try and understand/discern why God has not made things more clear to me, the answer I keep getting is what I have just written above and he convicts my own heart of this. We are truly at the point of Jonah's preaching and telling us that we are about to be destroyed - put on your sackcloth and pray, pray, pray for yourself and the world. Pray for the Pope, Cardinals, Bishops, and Priests. Every time you want to criticize them, just start praying a Hail Mary for them with love and keep doing this every single time. Let pray be the first thing you do before complaining. I am trying to do this and I must say when I do this, I do gain better perspective and humility.
As far as Christ's Betrayal and Death goes; yes the Apostles did run away and leave Him too it; But it was Judas, not the rest of the Apostles, who sold Him out for 30 pieces of silver. As far as Christ's Ministry is concerned , yes the Apostles constantly misunderstood His teachings, but it was Judas alone who stole from the Common fund. As in the Gospel the finger clearly needs to be pointed at Judas here. There are wolves in the sheepfold. True we are all sinners, But we are not all Judas. This needs to be pointed out very,very clearly. The alarm needs to raised. There is nothing the least bit wrong in doing so. There would be something very,very wrong in not doing so. Judas is loose in the Vatican.
The current leadership in the Church is both the direct cause of what we are going through as well as a symptom of a larger disease that is spreading rapidly through the Church. We have known about this disease for a long time. For over a hundred years we have been warned about it by the Popes. It is called Modernism. They are to blame and we are to blame as well. Modernism is putrid and repugnant and needs to be vomited from the Church. It will be in time. Until then we must wait and pray and resist error as we can. We the small faithful ones who are left cannot overcome this by human means at this point. In military terms we must perform what is called a holding action. An attempt to hold the enemy as well as we are able until reinforcements arrive. We need not fear though because Our Lady is our General and Our King is Christ. The enemies of the Church will never succeed in overcoming Her. We don't know how the whole story will unfold, but we know the last chapter is the Triumph of The Immaculate Heart. Evidently the enemies of the Church are not reading from the same book we are.
The very fact that the world is even talking about an alleged statement about a pope saying something so contrary to scripture and church teaching speaks to our immediate times. No one could have ever considered either Pope John Paul or Benedict saying such a thing! But the fact that it has been said of Pope Francis and not corrected by him say's allot. Natural disasters, plagues, wars and rumors of war, rampant apostasy at the highest levels of the church..... all that is left before the world comes crashing down is global economic collapse and we will see WW3 and the end of the world that we have known. Is there a better period than this for the man of sin to appear?
I couldn't wrap my head around the fact that Pope Francis told the victim of the abuse that God had made him gay; until I read the following article: Juan Carlos Cruz: Pope Francis’ words about gay Catholics are a model of welcome https://www.americamagazine.org/fai...s-words-about-gay-catholics-are-model-welcome "He said he told the pope that when he came forward with allegations of sexual abuse, leaders in the Chilean church, including Cardinal Javier Errazuriz, a member of the pope’s advisory council, said that because Mr. Cruz is gay, he was not a legitimate victim of abuse because he may have “liked” it.". ................... Somehow, all along, I had missed the point that Cruz was known to be 'gay'.
At this point, the context being that millions of people are assuming that he did say it, it is essential that Pope Francis clearly demonstrate that he did not say it. If he does not, it is inevitable that many will take it for granted that this is now the doctrine of the Catholic Church. Unfortunately, that is the way these things work.
This is one of the most asinine statements I have ever heard. That is like saying because a woman is heterosexual she might enjoy being raped by a man. In addition perhaps Mr. Cruz has same sex attraction because of the molestation. It is very sad that a Cardinal said something like that.
I have been touring the web seeking the defense case on Pope Francis on this: 1. Pope Francis maybe did not say it. Well the first thing I note is that folks are not saying, "he never said it' Even his biggest fans. What they are saying is MAYBE he did not say it. Which is very telling in itself. But grant he did not say it, or was misquoted; why or why is the Vatican/ Pope Francis not setting the record straight Denying, setting the record straight/ placing forward Catholic Teaching. Why? 2. This was private he was not speaking as Pope. Well hopefully the Pope would put forward true Catholic Doctrine even in private. Even if no one ever heard about this it would be a window into the Holy Father's heart; a very troubling one. But it is not private now; so why the silence? 3 The media are out to get Pope Francis. Well...errrr no. The liberal media idolise Pope Francis.
And apparently from the one who didn't mind gazing at rather skimpily attired females wearing historical "costumes" designed for male clerics: NY Cardinal: Pope’s Affirming Comments to Gay Man Were ‘Conservative, Traditional, Catholic’ New York Cardinal Timothy Dolan has defended reported comments by Pope Francis to a gay Chilean man that “being gay doesn’t matter,” saying they represent “conservative” Catholic teaching. In a reconstruction of his conversation with the pope, Juan Carlos Cruz, an alleged victim of clerical sex abuse, said that Francis told him, “Juan Carlos, you being gay doesn’t matter” during their meeting in April. “God made you like this and loves you like this and it doesn’t matter to me. The pope loves you like this, you have to be happy with who you are,” he reportedly said. Cruz is one of three victims of Father Fernando Karadima who were in Rome in late April for three days of meetings with Francis. His comments came in an interview published on Saturday with the Spanish daily El País. Commenting on the news during his weekly radio show Tuesday, Cardinal Dolan said that it is hard to know with certainty exactly what was said, and that one would want “a little bit of ‘wait and see’ here, let’s see exactly what the Holy Father said.” While noting he had no intention of questioning the young man’s sincerity, he did say it would be wise to “keep in mind we got it third-hand, so what the pope said to him, he said to the press, so one would want to get a clarification.” ....... In his own reconstruction of the meeting, Cardinal Dolan said the conversation probably went something like this: “Well, God loves you and so do I.” “What he says is beautiful,” Dolan said. “Jesus could have said that.” “That’s sort of conservative, traditional, Catholic, orthodox teaching. The Catechisminsists on that,” he added. “Yes, yes, while any sexual expression outside of a man and woman in marriage is contrary to God’s purpose, so is not treating anyone, including a gay person, with anything less than dignity and respect,” he stated. The cardinal tied the conversation back to the pope’s celebrated remark in 2013 “Who am I to judge?” in reference to gay individuals in the Church trying to live chaste lives. “People thought this was revolutionary,” Dolan recalled. “What he would say today would be similar to what Jesus would say.” “People don’t understand those teachings of the Church,” Dolan said. The Catholic Church teaches that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered” and “contrary to the natural law.” Men and women “who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies,” however, “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided,” the Catholic Catechism states. “Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection,” it concludes. http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...y-man-were-conservative-traditional-catholic/
I definitely don't disagree with the above. I was only pointing out that part of the reason we have Judas' in the Church and the reason why things are so bad, is because the level of prayer, penance, and mortification, by most of us is not sufficient and we all do have some blame in this regards. If all of us spent more time in prayer for the Pope, Cardinals, Bishops, priests, and religious, there would be an influx of grace within the Church. I am only speaking what I believe the Holy Spirit is prompting me to and I have no judgement on what others are saying in this thread. I truly believe that more of my time/our time should be spent in prayer for those we are criticizing and there does need to be recognition that the state of the Church today is a reflection on the each member of the body of Christ failing at times in this regard.
Well , I respect your prayerful opinion and you may very well be right. I for one don't claim any kind of infallibility in these very,very confusing and difficult times. Going back to Scripture in this is very,very humbling when we see in the very first Council of the Church such very grave disagreement amongst the saints and Apostles. With prayful pause to think about this:... Yes of course you are right, we all share the general blame..... we are all sinners .. but on top of this..I would prayerfully add there is without doubt something totally totally, diabolic here at the very heart of the Church.
I agree. Fr James Martin seems to be happily proclaiming what Pope Francis told Cruz: View attachment 7960
I wholeheartedly agree that the statement by the Chilean bishops is asinine. What I meant to highlight is that I was (previously) puzzling over why the victim of abuse would be labelled gay when it was not his fault that the homosexual act happened. I hadn't realised that in this particular case, Cruz himself is a self-proclaimed 'gay'.
http://m.ncregister.com/daily-news/popes-reported-gay-doesnt-matter-comment-furthers-shadow-magisterium ‘Gay Doesn’t Matter’ Remark Continues ‘Shadow Magisterium’ Posted by Father Raymond J. de Souza on Monday May 21st, 2018 at 6:15 PM COMMENTARY: It would be better if comments reportedly made by the Pope in private remained in private, not splashed around the world by news media. Pope Francis has pioneered a new form of papal teaching, massively influential but officially nonexistent. It is something of a shadow magisterium, but on occasion it shines a brighter light than the official magisterium. The latest example regards the nature of homosexuality. Juan Carlos Cruz, one of the Chilean sexual-abuse victims who spent several days with Pope Francis in April, related the following from his conversations with the Holy Father about being gay. “Juan Carlos, that you are gay doesn’t matter,” he said Francis told him. “God made you like this and loves you like this, and it doesn’t matter to me. The Pope loves you like this; you have to be happy with who you are.” We do not know, of course, what Pope Francis actually said, much less what he meant by it. The Holy See Press Office, as it customarily does when private conversations with Pope Francis are reported by his interlocutors, neither confirms nor denies what was said and reiterates that private conversations have no magisterial standing. While they have no standing, such statements fly around the world instantly. That the Holy Father endorsed the view that a homosexual orientation is a positive good, desired and approved by God is what was reported, broadcast, posted and tweeted around the world. The Catechism of the Catholic Church makes three points about homosexuality: i) homosexual persons are created and loved by God and should be fully respected in their human dignity, ii) a same-sex orientation or attraction is “disordered” and therefore cannot be a positive good desired by God, and iii) homosexual acts, like all sexual acts outside of marriage, are sinful. Does Pope Francis disagree with that? That’s unlikely, as he has repeatedly said in regard to homosexuality that he follows the Catechism. But it is a possibility, at least until it is demonstrated Juan Cruz is mistaken in his recollection, or that the Holy Father himself clarifies his meaning. But clarifications are not offered in such situations. Meanwhile, officially nonexistent teaching becomes legitimate news, as it seems that the Supreme Pontiff is changing Catholic doctrine. There have been at least five occasions in which Pope Francis has exercised this shadow magisterium to the effect of eclipsing Catholic teaching. · In April 2014, a woman in Argentina claimed that Pope Francis telephoned her and told her that, despite being in an invalid marriage, she should disregard the instructions of her pastor and receive Holy Communion in another parish. · In January 2015, Pope Francis telephoned a transgender man and reportedly told him something similar to what Cruz reported: “God loves all his children, however they are; you are a son of God, who accepts you exactly as you are. Of course you are a son of the Church!” Pope Francis invited the man and his fiancé to visit him in Rome. · Pope Francis has given several interviews to journalist Eugenio Scalfari, which are neither recorded nor transcribed. The Holy See Press Office insists that Scalfari’s subsequent reporting cannot reliably be taken as the Holy Father’s words. Nevertheless, earlier this year, headlines around the world trumpeted the latest from the shadow magisterium — that hell no longer exists. On two occasions, the Holy Father gave public answers that were ambiguous and seemed at odds with Catholic teaching. · In November 2015, addressing the Lutheran community in Rome, Pope Francis was asked by a Protestant woman if she could receive Holy Communion together with her Catholic husband. Absent extraordinary circumstances, that is not permitted. Pope Francis replied in a partly affirmative and partly negative way, advising the woman to “ask the Lord” and then proceed. It was widely reported that Pope Francis had given approval to intercommunion, which he had not. · Earlier this year, Pope Francis was asked by a tearful boy whether his late father was in heaven, despite being an atheist. Pope Francis did not answer a clear yes or no, but left the grieving boy with the impression that his father had been saved without faith. That, too, was widely reported. In all of the above cases, the Holy Father is addressing an individual case, yet his words are reported as proposing a general norm. Absent any clarification of the norm, it is reasonably assumed by many that the norm has been changed. It is a common enough pastoral reality. Any good pastor has offered comforting words of an ambiguous nature to a suffering individual. A grieving daughter is told by her pastor that her recently deceased father, who abandoned her mother for another woman, really did love his children. The pastor is not proposing that the father was right to do as he did, or that he will not face judgment for that. The pastor is, in the moment, choosing to emphasize part of the truth of the situation, rather than the whole. That is why pastors are careful that such words are not proposed as formal teaching. It can be difficult enough in a parish, where the pastor is asked whether what he reportedly is to have said to so-and-so has changed the Church’s teaching or practice. That moment allows for a clarification. In the case of the Holy Father, there are no such moments; the whole world hears at the same time. Indeed, those preparing the Holy Father’s visits should not have allowed the grieving child to ask the Pope about whether atheists are in heaven. It would have been awkward and out of place to examine what exactly is required for salvation. No one would find it easy to answer when the crying boy needed comforting, which the Holy Father immediately offered. He was not intending in such a moment to exercise his magisterium at all, shadow or otherwise. It is commendable that the Holy Father has private conversations in which he offers pastoral care to those he meets. It would be better if those receiving such care would also respect the private nature of those conversations, not putting the Holy Father — and all who listen to him — in a difficult position. Father Raymond J. de Souza is the editor in chief of Convivium magazine.
Sg, I understand what you are saying here and he has declared himself as a homosexual. I believe that Juan Carlos Cruz was a 17 year old seminarian when he was sexually abused by Father Karadima in Chile. I am not sure that anyone is certain when Mr. Cruz declared himself to be a homosexual but I think it is very likely that it was after all of these horrid things happened to him. It is possible that the Pope is somewhat dumbfounded by what occurred in Chile but I am not certain why he never addressed these things when he received Mr. Cruz's 8-page letter in 2015 and why would Pope Francis go so far as to accuse these victims of calumny in January when he visited Chile. It is a difficult situation to understand unless the Pope handed this over to someone else at the Vatican and then he was given incorrect information about it, idk. Since all of the Chilean bishops recently offered to resign, it does make me wonder how big this situation was/is - it's downright creepy. The following is from an article from the Catholic Herald and I wonder how many clergy could have concealed this abuse, "Cruz said he gave the archbishop names of people he believes have taken part in concealing abuse by Fr Karadima as well as the names of other victims of the priest." http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/new...-with-vatican-abuse-investigator-was-intense/ In addition, I just came across the following article which I believe gives more proof that the situation in Chile was/is very bad, Chilean Bishop Suspends 12 Priests, Apologizes for Not Acting Sooner Bishop Goić’s apology came after a program detailing misconduct accusations aired and after the bishop returned from the Chilean bishops’ meeting with Pope Francis. http://www.ncregister.com/daily-new...s-12-priests-apologizes-for-not-acting-sooner Elise Harris/CNA/EWTN News May. 22, 2018
I think this is very important in the context: From Father Z, http://wdtprs.com/blog/ "Pope Francis on homosexual seminarians: This bridge is closed! Posted on 23 May 2018 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf At Vatican Insider I spotted something interesting. Each Spring the Italian bishops have a plenary meeting at the Vatican’s Paul VI hall, in the smaller hall where the Synod usually meets. The Pope attends at least part of the meeting. This year was no exception. This year the Pope told them… my fast translation from the Italian original: “If there’s a doubt about homosexuality, it’s better not to have them enter the seminary.” The words of the Pope in the closed door session with the Italian bishops: “Discernment is needed”. Reaffirmed what was in the Vatican documents of 2005 and 2016 With the pastors of the CEI (Italian bishops conference) – Vatican insider learned – Francis, speaking about the downturn in vocations, one of his “three worries” for the Italian church, he was, instead, more straightforward and, inviting the bishops to oversee more the quality of future priests, then the quantity, explicitly mentioned cases of homosexual persons who desire, for various motives, to enter into the seminary. Then he invited the bishops to a “careful discernment”, adding: “if you have also the slightest doubt it’s better not to let them enter”. One indication, from the Pope, that expresses his deep concern: these tendencies, which are “deeply rooted”, and the practice of “homosexual acts”, can compromise the life of the seminary beyond that of the young man himself and an eventual future priesthood. They can generate those “scandals” of which the Pope had spoken in his discourse at the opening of the assembly of the Italian bishops in the new hall of the Synod, that disfigure the face of the Church. Between the lines one can read what was already put in black and white by Pope Francis in a letter of meditation given brevi manu [directly] to the Chile in bishops during their meeting in the Vatican. In a note added to the text. The Pontiff denounced verified problems in seminaries where – as he wrote – bishops and religious superiors have entrusted control to “priests suspected of practicing homosexuality”. […] There’s more, but it mainly reviews what previous documents say about homosexual candidates or seminarians. I suspect someone will translate the whole thing soon… for the sake of general Jesuit reading. To the bishops: “If you think that the guy is homosexual, don’t put him in the seminary.” The Pontiff – the Pontifex… “Bridge Builder” – says that “This bridge is closed!” I wonder what that means for those who are already ordained." (The contradictions mount up).
Sigh. I keep trying to be positive. I keep on telling myself, 'Better days and a better Pope will come'. ....and they will; no Pope is forever. I keep meaning to pray for our Holy Father but keep forgetting. I take this as a bad sign. God reminds us of those He wants prayed for . He lets us forget to pray for people who are under His wrath. It's the same for the Holy Souls in Purgatory. He lets souls under his anger be forgotten. I see Michael Voris has finally launched a broadside, bless him. At long last. I had just about given up on him.
