Antonio Livi is a very serious scholar, very well known in the catholic network of universities in Rome at the highest level - that someone like this is talking so bluntly ... it is huge!
He didn't forbid the Germans giving Communion to all comers. It seems to me that the CDF's response to the German Bishops outlined Catholic teaching which would rule out their proposal and the Pope has set up a browbeating session which will result in a German pastoral document with the same kind of ambiguous wording as Amoris Laetitia. There can be absolutely no doubt that the German Bishop's Conference is doing exactly what Pope Francis wants them to do and the majority of Bavarian Bishops are about to be slapped down. The Stasi were more straighforward and probably more honest than the Pope's cronies in Germany. That Jesuit secretary of the Bishops' Conference is reputed to be the real power in the German Church. The faithful Bishop will be up against four German Bishops who to all intents and purposes are heretics as well as the Jesuit Secretary of their Bishops Conference, the Jesuit Pope, probably the Jesuit Prefect of the CDF and another Jesuit if the Pope brings along his mouthpiece Spadaro. He will need the fortitude of St. Thomas Moore when facing that lot.
Things ain’t looking good on this topic. I would be very very surprised if they get a No, which we all know is what they should get. And by the way, we are still waiting for the Dubia cardinals to be received. It is amazing how if you propose anything that goes against the Doctrine and Teachings of the Church these days they receive you right away, doors wide opened, because they don’t want to be seen as ‘rígids and doctors of the law’, but if you propose to uphold the Doctrine not only they don’t receive you, they won’t even talk to you...while they preach about dialogue and openness of course! German bishops to meet with Vatican officials on intercommunion topic https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...tican-officials-on-intercommunion-topic-22436
Yes, I was thinking about this yesterday and I agree although I do not know why and I contemplate that it is supernatural what is taking place with Pope Benedict's continued life of prayer and influence. It led me to wonder if the Latin Mass would continue to exist in it's current visible state.
If they ever try to abolish the Latin Mass then we know we are in deep trouble. (not that we aren't already)
An Archbishop from Oregon celebrated a Solemn Pontifical High Mass on Saturday at the National Shrine in DC to celebrate 10 years of Benedict’s Summorum Pontificum which allowed widespread access to the TLM It was covered by ewtn There were many priests there and many Supporters I trust in God that we will stay together in trials to come
Jarg, this is the "new mercy" that is being taught from the papacy on down. In other words, out with the old, in with the new. "Who are we to judge"?
Another follow-up from Mark M. This should revive the "hot" conversation here: THAT POPE FRANCIS! PART II https://www.markmallett.com/blog/2018/04/30/that-pope-francis-part-ii/
This line stroke me: We must help the Pope. We must stand with him just as we would stand with our own father. —Cardinal Sarah, May 16th, 2016, Letters from the Journal of Robert Moynihan
I know this was not directed to me but I want to jump in here for a sec because this I think is an important sub topic to consider given the nature of Christianity and most specifically Catholicism is and has always been one of reason and dare I say progress. Augustine proved this with his revelation regarding the perpetual virginity of Our Blessed Mother when for centuries it had been accepted thought that Jesus had brothers birthed by His Mother Mary. The Church has always embraced reason and progress both in the secular world (although at the time it was very much accepted by almost all nations that Christ was King above all Kings) and within its own walls. It truly sets us apart. From the understanding that scriptural meaning can be revealed centuries after its recording to the founding of the modern University system in the "dark ages" we see in use now. Reason (granted to us by God) has and is in many respects why the West has progressed in leaps and bounds past that of all other cultures. Whether it is compared to China or Islam the West has been incredibly blessed due to this. Capitalism also has its roots in such. The Latin Rite was basically abandoned for a period and was actively discouraged by many within the Church without admitting to such. Was this the result of reason and progress? What of the result since this change was widely adopted? Only when Pope Benedict directly intervened was the Latin Mass made somewhat widely available again. What of the result of this? With the changing of the Mass and the liturgical experimentation has the Churches commission been advanced since its inception and wide spread practice? These are important things to consider when contemplating the reasons for the decline in the Church and most of all the incredibly abysmal lack of faith in many of those who consider themselves Catholic. Only 4 out of 10 Catholics when asked answer truthfully regarding the Precious Body and Blood of Our Lord present in the Mass. I can tell you that I find that the Mass in both forms to be transformational. However, when I attend the Latin Rite of the Mass I am at home (in spite of my ignorance, possibly more so because of it) on my knees before the sacred presence of Our Lord and Savior. My wife recently attended Mass at the Cathedral of our Arch Diocese in Seattle. She received the Body and Blood of Our Lord and on coming home told me that she saw maybe 3 people in that massive Cathedral receive Our Lord on the tongue. She was very remiss about this and I was taken back by it as well but I on the other hand was very pleased to see her displeasure and sadness at the blatant abuse of Our Lord who she holds to be King of Kings. Is it any wonder that many wish to attend the Latin Rite of the Mass? Is it any wonder why many lament the possibility of the revocation of this sacred rite?
The Latin Mass is the Mass of Ages. I think it was a major mistake to tamper with it as they did. The Mass is in a sense a prayer. The most powerful one. Latin is by its very nature a sacred language. If I were a betting man I would bet that after the restoration of the Church the Novus Ordo and many other innovations will be done away with and the Latin Mass will be restored. There are many websites, books, and videos explaining and comparing the two better than I could if you care to look further. Just be careful not to wander into extremist sites. They will tell you lies such as that the Novus Ordo is invalid. We know this is not true because of the Euchristic Miracles that have occurred during them. It is true though that far more abuse occurs at the Novus Ordo than the Latin Mass. Eucharistic Miracles occur when people disbelieve and also when the Host is treated poorly. I cannot think of a Eucharistic Miracle that has happened at a Latin Mass recently. That is because much more reverence is used there. Patens, kneeling, etc.
" It would be easier for the world to survive without the sun than to do so without the Holy Mass." Padre Pio also, the TLM has been called "the Mass of the Ages" Bishop Sample of Portland, OR said that the Novus Ordo is a valid Mass. I wish I could find his exact words....this was on twitter , I think, after he celebrated the Solemn High Mass this past Saturday. (TLM)
Also today, as a sign of the complete collapse of Catholicism in Germany, the horrid Archbishop of Munich and President of the Bishops' Conference (DBK), Cardinal Marx, made clear his opposition (that is correct, opposition) to the decision by the Bavarian State government to place crosses and crucifixes in all public buildings, something the Church had always proposed in all Catholic-majority nations and regions. One cannot get any more devilish than by rejecting the Holy Cross itself! The Cardinal criticized the move as "expropriating the cross in the name of the state." Naturally, you won't see any criticism by this voracious Cardinal of the use of the State revenue services to collect and distribute the Kirchensteuer (Church Tax) that makes the German Church ridiculously wealthy and disproportionately influential in spreading its evil all over the Church: then, the "expropriation" by the State is just fine... https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2018/04/german-liberalism-is-cancer-in-church.html#more
I strongly agree. I have been pondering a lot about this. We know that the Novus Ordo mass was developed after consultation with 6 Protestants during Vatican II. I don't imagine that the Protestants cared to ensure that there would remain a valid consecration in the Novus Ordo mass, because they obviously don't believe in the Real Presence. Why, oh why, were the Protestants invited to Vatican II in the first place? Why was there a need to make the mass acceptable to non-Catholics?? Is it now acceptable to them? As someone here posted recently, there seem to be only minimal differences between the Novus Ordo mass and the Anglican service. That is not good. I sometimes wonder if maybe, just maybe, the abomination of desolation began with the Novus Ordo mass after Vatican II. I know I will probably get shot down for daring to say this aloud on the forum, but.... I googled it after the thought occurred to me, and I found out that I'm not the first to have such a thought. Is this the only reason/proof that tells us that the Novus Ordo is valid? When one really thinks about it, it was evil to introduce the Novus Ordo, and prohibit the TLM. -shifting our Lord in the tabernacle away from the centre and consequently away from our focus of attention. -the priest turning his back to our Lord in the tabernacle -removing the rails that separated the holy (sanctuary) from the lay faithful -Communion in the hand, while standing, by lay people (EMHC), all of which have contributed immensely to irreverence, loss of faith, desecration and sacrilege -etc, etc,...
