The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. Richard67

    Richard67 Powers

    I pray that the next Pope comes in the mold of Innocent III: young and zealous for the Faith (and who incidentally was not even ordained at the time of his election to the Pontificate). I think the real “reform” needs to happen in the College of Cardinals and in the way Papal Elections are conducted. It shouldn’t just be the College of Cardinals who are considered for election. Every priest and Bishop should be in the running. Just think how long it took for a non-Italian Pope to be elected.
     
  2. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Pope Athanasius Schneider?
     
  3. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Maybe we should all just move to Kazakhstan. o_O
     
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  4. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I would have to learn to spell it first.
     
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  5. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    Well, he appears to be amazing from everything that I have read about him or heard him say on videos.
    I fully understand why Brian has such a high regard for him. Imho Bishop Schneider is both holy and unpretentious.
    I believe Brian was lucky enough to meet him twice and attend a mass that he said here in the USA.

    May God bless him and look over him always.
     
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  6. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Robert Royal has a review of Gaudete et Exsultate (or, as Eccles has renamed it, Goad and Insult) in the Catholic Thing today:

    www.thecatholicthing.org

    It doesn't seem as bad as expected...so far.
     
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  7. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

  8. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    An interesting article. Mr Royal puts his finger on a very important point. Why is there such an attack by the Pope on "rigid" people? Is the Church since Vatican II overly controlled by a bunch of rigid, uncharitable people? I've never met any of them.

    His prescription is exactly the opposite of what is needed today. The Church has always played the see-saw of Mercy and Justice. It is hard for people to conceptualize both at the same time. In times when people are overly Justice-oriented the Church has told her ministers to tend to the flock with an emphasis on God's Mercy. That is what it did for example during and after the Jansenist heresy when Justice was so emphasized it was almost a nihilistic belief structure.

    Today though we face the exact opposite problem. Most people believe only in God's Mercy. Most don't believe in Hell, the devil, sin and Judgement. The common idea today is that everybody goes to Heaven except Hitler and Stalin. So if you're responsible for anything less than 50 million deaths or so you're in the clear. If anything, the popes of today should put a very strong emphasis on Judgement and eternal punishment.

    There is a reason the first thing Our Lady showed the children at Fatima was Hell.
    A warning of such dire punishment is indeed mercy itself!
     
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  9. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Since, by the passive permission of the Good God (on account of our manifold sins) , it was by the most gravest of errors of the College of Cardinals we find ourselves in this direst of predicaments; how then can we rely on the same troublesome and erroneous College to dig us out?

    It is rather like expecting the guy who mugged us to return our goods and set things straight.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
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  10. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I wish it were the same college. Now it is a far worse one, having been stocked with liberals and Modernists.

    To be Catholic one must adhere entirely to all dogmatic teachings of the Catholic Church. To knowingly deny one or more is to make oneself a heretic. To be a heretic puts oneself outside the Church. I wonder what portion of the hierarchy is not even Catholic anymore.
     
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  11. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

     
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  12. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Yes; their silence by itself condemns them.

    The Bishops too.

    It's just as bad as it gets, without the whole shebang bursting into flames.

    Don't kid yourself, we're in one heck of a huge, big, mess.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
  13. padraig

    padraig Powers

     
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  14. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    I absolutely love Anna-Katherine Emmerick´s vision on all this.

    Only the mystics understood the extent of the collapse we´re experiencing and where the renewal would come from:

    53.30 April 22, 1823. "I saw that many pastors allowed
    themselves to be taken up with ideas that were dangerous to
    the Church. They were building a great, strange, and extrava-
    gant Church. Everyone was to be admitted in it in order to be
    united and have equal rights: Evangelicals, Catholics, sects of
    every description. Such was to be the new Church. . .
    But
    God had other designs."
     
  15. padraig

    padraig Powers

    But I am full of hope.

    Utterly confident.

    For if God is with us who can stand against us?

     
  16. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    DeGaulle,

    Thank you for posting this I wanted to read Robert Royal's thoughts about the Pope's new exhortation.

    I forgot about Cardinal Sarah's book, "The Power of Silence: Against the Dictatorship of Noise" but
    after reading Mr. Royal's comments about the Pope's new exhortation Cardinal Sarah's book came to mind.

    I have not read the book but the Pope's comments on silence appear to be in direct opposition with Cardinal Sarah's thoughts about the
    importance of silence. Robert Royal was right to point out that the love of silence is something that we don't see much of anymore in our world today.

    So, why would the Pope be concerned about the love of silence as demonstrated in the following statement from his exhortation :unsure:,

    “It is not healthy to love silence while fleeing interaction with others, to want peace and quiet while avoiding activity, to seek prayer
    while disdaining service. Everything can be accepted and integrated into our life in this world, and become a part of our path to holiness.”

    ​
    From Cardinal Sarah's book (y),

    "Silence is more important than any other human work-for it expresses God. The true revolution comes from silence;
    it leads us toward God and others so as to place ourselves humbly and generously at their service."

    https://www.ewtnreligiouscatalogue.com/Home+Page/BOOKS/Prayer/THE+POWER+OF+SILENCE.axd
    ​
     
  17. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    The little boy who cried wolf. What happened to him?
     
  18. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Of course, the one who comments about what is 'healthy' (a strange choice of word, in itself, one not relevant to morality or the doctrine of salvation-is what martyrs do 'healthy'?), is one we know has suffered from 'psychological ill-health', in his time.

    I say that the document is not as bad as expected, because, so far, I have seen no-one dig up a major heresy-thank heaven for small mercies. He has conflated immigration with abortion, but that is not going to convince many, it is too obviously wrong-headed for anyone with a modicum of religious sensibility. Mostly, the document seems to fit Eccles' description-"Goad and Insult". I can't, so far, see it representing the sort of threat that AL does, but others far more perceptive than me may yet find otherwise.

    As Robert Royal says, there are even good bits in what is, as usual, too long-winded a document.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
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  19. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Maybe Grossly Insulting, involving verbal violence, while accusing others of the exact same thing... I mean maybe, perhaps a little ????

    [​IMG]

    “Still, some Christians insist on taking another path, that of justification by their own efforts... The result is a self-centered and elitist complacency, bereft of true love... an obsession with the law, an absorption with social and political advantages, a punctilious concern for the Church’s liturgy, doctrine and prestige... This can occur when some groups of Christians give excessive importance to certain rules, customs, or ways of acting. The Gospel then tends to be reduced and constricted, deprived of its simplicity, allure and savour. This may well be a subtle form of Pelagianism, for it appears to subject the life of grace to certain human structures.” —Gaudete et Exsultate, Chapter 2, Paragraph 57-58


    “The other harmful ideological error is found in those who find suspect the social engagement of others, seeing it as superficial, worldly, secular, materialist, communist or populist... Our defence of the innocent unborn, for example, needs to be clear, firm and passionate... Equally sacred, however, are the lives of the poor, those already born, the destitute, the abandoned...” —Gaudete et Exsultate, Chapter 3, Paragraph 101


    “Christians too can be caught up in networks of verbal violence through the internet and the various forms of digital communication. Even in the Catholic media, limits can be overstepped, defamation and slander can become commonplace, and all ethical standards and respect for the good name of others can be abandoned.” —Gaudete et Exsultate, Chapter 4, Paragraph

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
  20. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    Yes, two masses and had lunch with him around the dining room table at a friend’s in Steubenville. An incredibly kind humble soft spoken but brilliant saint. View attachment 7677 View attachment 7678
     

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