Is it just me, or does anyone else get nervous for the Holy Father when he goes on trips to these indigenous regions? I guess the reason I get nervous is that the third secret of Fatima included a vision of a Holy Father being martyred in front of a cross, by assassins wielding bow and arrows. I always thought that detail was rather odd in the vision and it has always stuck in the back of my mind. I feel that it describes a literal scene, not a figurative one. So, that’s why I pray extra hard when any Pope travels to “indigenous” regions. Not just this Pope, but any one.
CD, you missed my whole point in explaining this situation for them being married on the plane. They were not married in God's eye prior to Pope Francis marrying them! They were living in the deadly sin of fornication/co-habitation. The article said, "they were unable to be married sacramentally" because their church was destroyed in a 2010 earthquake. Apparently, they could not find another Catholic Church in the past 7 years, so Pope Francis decided to marry them on the plane. Obviously he can do this, with no marriage preparation and apparently without the sacrament of penance (at least that wasn't mentioned), but it seemed more like a stunt that did not have any preparation time within normal conditions prior to marriage within the church.
Catholics are forbidden to contract civil marriages unless they are sacramentally married. If a Catholic contracts a civil marriage without being sacramentally married in the Church they are considered to be committing mortal sin. Church law on the recognition of marriages is different for Catholics than it is for non-Catholics.
I wonder if he saw in them a sorrow for their situation and that was what led him to suggest the Sacrament. Who knows. We just went through convalidation and part of this was acknowledging and our being sorrowful for being married outside the church and confessing this before hand along with our other individual sins and being absolved of them. there was no divorce in our case, only 27 years of civil marriage and childr but outside the church. The ceremony consisted of our vows to one another, placing our blessed rings on each other's fingers and we received a marriage certificate from the church. I didn't even know I was baptized in the church until we started RCIA and dug for my baptism records. The way the media portrays these and all things I highly doubt we are getting the whole story at any rate. Please pardon any typos etc, typing today is a real chore.
Don, and you did it the right way. With thought out reflection and preparation for this great sacrament of marriage. The pope had every right to marry this couple on a plane, but in doing so he needs to realize that he set a new example for his rouge bishops and priest to do as much on the fly. He needs to be careful when he does things off the cuff, as it is then taken by the radical leftist clergy as a sign of acceptance.
I'm not trying to challenge this statement, but I'm wondering how you reached this conclusion. Does he actually have such rights?
More on the Chilean abuse crisis. https://apnews.com/77f4a7e9779940a4...hile-by-accusing-sex-abuse-victims-of-slander
Blizzard, Another sad chapter to a very sad story. I started reading your article and then another one caught my attention: https://apnews.com/7c342d4f8e264fa7b321f56b63699a03 In Chile, pope met by protests, threats, burned churches PETER PRENGAMAN January 19, 2018 SANTIAGO, Chile (AP) — As he does during every papal visit, Pope Francis produced plenty of surprises in Chile: He married a couple during a flight, stopped his motorcade to help a fallen police officer and wept with victims of sex abuse by priests. But the pope also faced protests and a level of hostility unheard of in modern times for a papal visit. Anti-pope protests had to be broken up with tear gas, attackers burned at least 11 Roman Catholic Churches and pamphlets were found threatening Francis that the “next bomb would be in your cassock.” “This kind of violence during a papal visit is absolutely unprecedented. And Chile is historically a very solidly Catholic nation,” said Andrew Chesnut, the Catholic Studies chair at Virginia Commonwealth University. It remains to be seen whether the friction in Chile was a fluke or a harbinger of what to expect in future papal trips. The neighboring country of Peru, where Francis went Thursday, isn’t taking any chances. Authorities have banned demonstrations because they “impact the image of the country,” police spokeswoman Veronica Marquez said. Papal visits sometimes attract demonstrations. In 2010, thousands in London protested the visit of Pope Benedict XVI, condemning his stance on condoms, women’s rights and homosexuality, among other things. But the ferocity and firebombing of churches in Chile went beyond anything in modern memory. “These violent acts may be a first in the history of the ‘traveling papacy,’” said Massimo Faggioli, a theology professor at Villanova University in Philadelphia. “It is striking also because Latin America is supposed to be friendly territory for Francis” — the first pope from the region. Chile has changed radically, from its economy to politics, in less than a generation. Those changes, combined with a pedophile priest scandal and what many argue was a bungled response by the church, has accelerated a move away from Catholicism. Last year, 45 percent of Chileans identified as Catholic, a sharp drop in just a decade from the mid-60s, according to Latinobarometro’s annual poll. One of the pope’s sharply contested decisions — to appoint a Chilean bishop with close ties to the country’s most notorious pedophile priest — soured many on the visit before it even began. A few days before Francis arrived, a group angry about the cost of the papal visit briefly occupied the Nunciature in Santiago where the pope would sleep. The same day, several churches were burned. Over the next couple of days during the pope’s visit, several more churches were torched, along with three helicopters. It was unclear who was behind the arson attacks. Outside some of the churches, pamphlets were found supporting the cause of indigenous Mapuche. Pamphlets outside one threatened the pope. The Mapuche, Chile’s largest indigenous group, are fighting for a return of ancestral lands, recognition of their language and an end to discrimination. Much of Francis’ trip was dedicated to the conflict. During his homily Wednesday in the heart of Mapuche territory, he took both the Mapuche and Chilean officials to task, calling for a halt to violence and for government engagement that goes beyond just “elegant” agreements. The burning of churches is a tactic frequently employed by radical Mapuche groups: Nearly two dozen have been firebombed the last two years. That 11 were then attacked in just a few days is a possible sign that these groups saw the visit as an opportunity to bring more attention to their cause. “The burning of churches is an expression of the disgruntlement” that many Mapuche feel for the Catholic Church, said German Silva, a political analyst at the Universidad Mayor in Santiago. During Chile’s 1973-1990 dictatorship, several bishops spoke out in defense of human rights and worked closely with indigenous populations. Today’s bishops are much less visible, arguably less hands-on with the poor and in general the church has nowhere near the same moral authority. Other groups protested the pope himself. While Francis celebrated Mass on Tuesday at a large park in Santiago, riot police shot tear gas and arrested dozens of protesters as they tried to march on the service. Protesters included members of the country’s LGBT community, socialists and people angry at the church’s reaction to the sex abuse scandal that many Chileans don’t feel has been resolved. “There will be no peace for an accomplice who helps and protects a rapist,” read one sign. “Burn, Daddy!” read another. Hours before Francis left Chile, he made comments that all but overshadowed his entire visit, and certainly would have added to the protests if they had come sooner. When asked why he defended Bishop Juan Barros, the former protege of the pedophile priest, Francis said there was no proof Barros knew about the abuse and called those accusations against him slanderous. “After saying those things, if he came back here his reception would be even worse,” said Erivano Luna, a computer technician in Santiago. ___ Associated Press writers Patricia Luna in Santiago and Christine Armario in Lima, Peru, contributed to this report.
Now we have it on papal authority that seven years of a "trial" marriage is appropriate preparation for the Sacrament. We already had it on papal authority that such couples already receive the grace of marriage. Forget all that legalistic stuff about whether there are any impediments to the marriage, whether the couple understand what couples in a Catholic marriage are committing themselves to. There is, of course, another possibility............that the legalities had been covered long before the papal trip and the "impromptu" spin was a well-planned although ill advised publicity stunt.
Richard, I have thought about this also and I have wondered how much of the vision is figurative. I think that it could be a mix, partially literal and partially figurative. The description of the angels gathering up the blood of the martyrs appears to reference literal martyrs but I do question the vision being literal in terms of how a pope is perceived to be killed. I suppose that it is frightening to think of an elderly man being killed so brutally, so I am I looking for another explanation. I remember hearing an explanation for the primitive weapons described in the vision of the third secret on one of the two following videos. I can't remember which video it was exactly but the priest giving the lecture brought up an interesting point about this in relation to radical Islamists, I don't have the time to re-watch them at the moment to confirm which video contains the information but I thought you might be interested. Update: I got it, it is around the 57min. mark in the 2nd video. The priest, Father Wolfe, states that since these rudimentary weapons are easy to use and are not illegal this why the jihadists some times choose bows and arrows in this day and age.
Hi all ian here yes what a wonderful couple of days we have in Ireland all go on abortion here a woman gets a reward for loving it and what could get worse i can se my country going by by soon
https://canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2018/01/19/the-mid-air-marriage-gets-muddier/ The mid-air marriage gets muddier January 19, 2018 Popes on planes aren’t supposed to be a setting from which to draw fodder for canon law essay exams, but as far back as Pope Benedict XVI, such flights have occasioned more than their fair share of papal words or actions carrying canonical implications but undertaken with little apparent advertence to canon law. Let’s start with some fact questions in regard to the mid-air marriage recently officiated by Pope Francis. It is emerging that maybe the wedding wasn’t as spontaneous as reported, that maybe the happy couple were not “astonished” at the pope’s allegedly sudden idea, and that maybe the ‘Here?!’ and ‘It was a great surprise’ portrayals were expected. Last month, in an interview published in emol.com, Podest and Ciuffardi, picked to serve on the cabin crew for the papal visit, talked about their civil marriage from some eight years ago (which they had been too busy to convalidate), and stated that they “both hope that in January this delayed [wedding] plan can finally take place on the plane and be officiated over by none other than Pope Francis himself. ‘We would like it. This is our place, our second home, it is where we feel secure.’” * C’mon, someone was obviously planning something. It would be interesting to know who and what. In any event, a slurry of canon law exam questions can be drawn from this event in light of other facts, assuming they are facts (see my D&A no. 3 to the right), as discussed here, including: — Defend the assertion that “convalidation” in a lack of form situation differs from a “wedding” only in regard to accidentals. Be sure to discuss Canon 1160. — Discuss whether the official minister at a Catholic wedding can serve as one of the two other “witnesses” for purposes of canonical form (Canon 1108). — Explain how the manifestation of consent to marriage is be “asked for and received” per Canon 1108 and the Rite of Marriage. — Discuss how attention to various norms for the liceity of weddings/marriages contribute to the Church’s pastoral responsibility teach the faithful about the importance of marriage. Include at least three examples. — Discuss the difference between “convalidation” and “radical sanation”. Include in your answer whether witnesses are required for sanations and whether consent is renewed and accepted in sanations. — Discuss the canonical and pastoral differences between an ecclesiastical authority figure’s disregarding of the law versus one’s dispensing from the law. Give indicators by which the two actions might be distinguished. You may assume a Canon 91 actor. — Challenge or defend the continuation of the requirement of canonical form for marriage. If you challenge form, account for Cdl. Ratinger’s 1994 remarks on same; if you defend form, account for its being the first step in the sequence that led to the ‘mid-air marriage’ case of 2018. You have one hour. Good luck. + + + * Ambos esperan que en enero próximo este postergado plan pueda finalmente concretarse sobre el avión y dirigido nada menos que por el mismísimo Papa Francisco. “Nos encantaría. Es nuestro lugar, es nuestra segunda casa, es donde nos sentimos seguros”. (My trans.)
This is unbelievable. To accuse credible victims of calumny, in the context of having Daneels as one of his favourites. If someone in early 2013 had decided to design a wrecker-pope, with the specific intention of damaging the Church as much as possible, what would he have come up with, I wonder?
So the victims have been called "stupid", "leftists". Now, to add insult to injury, they are "liars". As DeGaulle suggested above, even the liberal media may be starting to dump the man because he's become such a liability.
http://marklambert.blogspot.ca/2018/01/pope-contradicts-amoris-laetitia.html Pope Contradicts Amoris Laetitia January 19, 2018 The fact that unqualified Vatican PR staff immediately had to assure everyone the marriage was perfectly licit is practically a guarantee that it wasn't: It is interesting to note, however, the couple’s account seems to contradict the director of the Holy See’s press office, Greg Burke, who told the press that “it was not the pope’s idea. It was their idea, but the pope was happy to do it. Canonist Edward Peters comments here: Based on the reports offered here and here, I cannot tell whether the ‘wedding’ that the pope put together for an unsuspecting couple satisfies Church requirements on marriage, and several other laws impacting the liceity of marriage seem simply to have been disregarded in the event. As happened several times under earlier administrations, a representative from the Vatican Press Office assures us that “everything was valid”. Such assertions by canonically unqualified and unauthorized PR staff carry, of course, no weight. Real questions worthy of real answers are still raised by this event. The above reports mention, as far as I can see, only the pope’s broaching the topic of marriage by asking the couple whether they wanted to be married, placing their hands together, saying a few inspirational words about marriage, and pronouncing them husband and wife. But such a sequence describes, not at all, a present exchange of consent by the parties. Let us hope, then, that in the actual event considerably more was said than has been reported. Second, canonical form demands two independent actual witnesses to the exchange of consent, meaning that five persons must be immediately present for the wedding—not folks who heard about it a few minutes later, or who saw something happening and wondered, hey, what’s going on back there?—but five persons acting together and at the same time: a bride, a groom, an officiant, and two other actual witnesses. While reports are unclear as to how many people actually witnessed this event, and while this photo shows four people in the event (plus a camera man?) and four signatures on a document, another photo shows five names on the marriage document, so one may presume (c. 1541) accordingly. Third, several canons impacting the liceity of weddings (norms on ‘liceity’ often being regarded as wink-wink rules in Church life, especially when higher-ups model the wink-winking) were apparently ignored here, including: the requirement for serious pastoral preparation prior to a wedding (c. 1063), administration of Confirmation before Matrimony (c. 1065), urging of Penance and holy Communion before a wedding (c. 1065), verification that no obstacles to validity or liceity are in place (c. 1066), securing evidence of the contractants’ freedom to marry (c. 1068) upon pain of acting illicitly without it (c. 1114), an expectation that Catholic weddings be celebrated in a parish church (cc. 1115, 1118), and making use of the Church’s treasury of liturgical books for celebration of the sacramental rite (c. 1119). As this story reverberates ‘round the world, now, deacons, priests, and bishops who try to uphold Church norms fostering values such as deliberate marriage preparation, an ecclesial context for a Catholic wedding, and the use of established and reliable texts for expressing consent will, undoubtedly, have the Podest-Ciuffardi wedding tossed in their face as evidence that, if Pope Francis does not insist on such legalistic silliness and only cares about whether two people love one another, why shouldn’t they do likewise? The ministry of conscientious clergy in this regard just got harder. If I have to say it, I will: I hope Podest and Ciuffardi are married and that they live happily ever after, but I worry whenever momentous life decisions are taken on a minute’s notice and under circumstances bound to contribute to one’s being carried away by events. The pope has opined, apparently more than once, that “half of all sacramental marriages are null”. Here’s hoping that Podest and Ciuffardi beat those odds. This is a crazy stunt. HIS OWN ENCYCLICAL Amoris laetitia repeatedly talks about the need for “long term and short term marriage preparation” before couples enter into the sacrament of marriage, which is a lifelong and unbreakable bond -- advice that DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS his actions here, spontaneously marry two people of whom he has no prior knowledge! “Another great challenge of marriage preparation is to help couples realize that marriage is not something that happens once for all. Their union is real and irrevocable, confirmed and consecrated by the sacrament of matrimony. Yet in joining their lives, the spouses assume an active and creative role in a lifelong project,” ~ Pope Francis, Amoris Laetitia The greatest tragedy about this PR stunt (which, as I said at the start of this blog has drawn attention away from the Ploumen thing quite successfully) is how it undermines deacons, priests, and bishops all over the world who try to uphold Church norms fostering values such as deliberate marriage preparation, an ecclesial context for a Catholic wedding, and the use of established and reliable texts for expressing consent.
http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/otn.cfm?ID=1267 For conscientious priests, the Pope just made marriage prep much more difficult By Phil Lawler (bio - articles - email) | Jan 19, 2018 If you’re a Catholic priest who tries to be conscientious about preparing couples for marriage, Pope Francis just made your life much more difficult. You’re doing your best. You tell couples that they should think seriously before taking vows. If they are cohabiting, you ask them to live apart before the marriage. You don’t pretend that preparation for marriage is accomplished by a one-size-fits-all program or a time-consuming, bureaucratic pre-Cana process; you take the time to get to know the man and woman, to speak to them about the true meaning of Christian marriage. You encourage them to make a good confession before the ceremony. Before the wedding day, you speak to each one individually, ensuring that each is ready to make a full and free commitment. You help them to plan the ceremony, guiding them so that it will be done with dignity and reverence. Then you do all the necessary paperwork to guarantee proper canonical form. Then Pope Francis meets couple on a plane ride, and on the spur of the moment, persuades them to take their vows in mid-flight. Does he ask them to reflect seriously on their commitment? Nope. They evidently weren’t even thinking about a sacramental marriage at takeoff time, and they were married before they landed. Does he question them about their years of cohabitation? Evidently not. Does he hear their confessions? Not likely. Plan a dignified ceremony? Not at all. As the overworked canon lawyer Ed Peters has remarked, it’s questionable at best that the Pope fulfilled the canonical requirements for marriage. So we face the unedifying reality that the Bishop of Rome may have presided at a marriage that was invalid because of his slapdash approach! And this, remember, is the same Pope who lamented that many (if not most) Catholic marriages today are invalid. Once again the Pope chose to ignore the requirements of canon law. Bear in mind that the Pope has the unquestioned authority to change canon law, on his own initiative. Still he didn’t change it; all those canons that Ed Peters mentions remain in force. Instead he paid no attention to them. So for you, the conscientious priest, life is now more difficult. Sometime in the few weeks, when you try to persuade a young man and woman to take marriage more seriously, you’re going to hear them say, in effect: “What’s the problem? The Pope wouldn’t give us these problems. Why are you making it into such a big deal?” So you have my sympathy, Father, and my prayers. You’re doing your best. God bless you for that. Then again if you’re not a conscientious priest—if you’re a priest who enjoys doing the bare minimum, letting people do what they want, not losing sleep about the state of their souls—the Pope just made your life even easier. So I don’t suppose you’ll complain. And as a matter of fact, reflecting on how few complaints I’ve heard in the past 24 hours, I think I know why the Pope just might be right about how many Catholic marriages are invalid.
