"The nub of the case is the usurpation by the state of parental rights with respect to their children" - agreed up to a point. That is why we have a due process. You can be certain that there will be parents of pre-pubescent children who think their boy is a "girl" and vice versa, lining up to challenge health authorities for not prescribing them hormone suppressing drugs. Healthcare professionals do have a duty to care for children. This hysteria about the state over-riding parents is playing right into the hands of the loonies who wish to abuse their own children ( I'm not suggesting the Gards fall into this category). I am alarmed at the anti-intellectualism of the whole case: experts bad, parents always good. NOT the case every time. The real villain in this is the American doctor who, not having read Charlie Gard's notes, examined him or clinically tried his own "cure" yet on mice even, had the audacity to tell a British court that he could offer them hope. What a complete fake he turned out to be.
Yes, Bella. Parental rights were revoked. That is correct, and it is what I meant, and I don't think you could argue with that. The parents were unable to make decisions concerning their child's welfare and treatment. Period. Hostage? You bet. I feel for you. I was a teacher for 30 years in a secular system which gradually took away any freedoms and was/is run by secular humanists, the same type of folks who made the medical decisions for Charlie. It is upsetting, to be sure, and thank God I am out of that milieu. I don't doubt for a minute that there were some Godly caregivers for Charlie...how could there not be? But the essence is that Charlie was a ward of the State (Or Union or Court, or whatever) Sad.
"The nub of the case is the usurpation by the state of parental rights with respect to their children" - agreed up to a point. That is why we have a due process. You can be certain that there will be parents of pre-pubescent children who think their boy is a "girl" and vice versa, lining up to challenge health authorities for not prescribing them hormone suppressing drugs. Healthcare professionals do have a duty to care for children. This hysteria about the state over-riding parents is playing right into the hands of the loonies who wish to abuse their own children ( I'm not suggesting the Gards fall into this category). I am alarmed at the anti-intellectualism of the whole case: experts bad, parents always good. NOT the case every time. The real villain in this is the American doctor who, not having read Charlie Gard's notes, examined him or clinically tried his own "cure" yet on mice even, had the audacity to tell a British court that he could offer them hope. What a complete fake he turned out to be. Do correct me if I am wrong, HH, but I read that you wrote that the hospital had literally taken them hostage. This means that they were keeping them imprisoned against their will, and from what I could see, this was not the case. I am unclear why you feel for me.. I am not the bereaved parent here. I also don't fully understand your sharing a bout being a teacher in a secular system.. I am missing the relevance to the discussion. ( I actually work in a Catholic system, not a secular system).
Bella, the hospital would not release little Charlie. They would not allow the parents to take him out of the hospital so that they could seek alternative treatment. Whether the doctor offering this alternative was a charlatan or not should not determine whether or not the parents, who at all times seemed to be acting in good faith, ought to have been the ones to make this choice. The courts also backed the jurisdiction of the state over the rights of the parents. The American doctor claims that during the several months that the hospital and the courts delayed Charlie's discharge, his condition deteriorated to the point of hopelessness. I cannot say if this latter claim is true, but it is certainly not implausible. This is the tragic situation as I understand it. I take your other point regarding the problems of transgressive parents. However, these, although they receive extensive publicity (itself a tactic of the establishment to denigrate parenthood), represent a small minority. In contrast, such transgression is increasingly becoming the singular policy of most Western states, disguised by the mask of 'children's rights'. In the vast majority of cases, the parents are by far the best social institution for the rearing of children. This is unsurprising, as it is an institution founded by God and gloriously exalted by the Holy Family. The traditional family is also that which fulfills the Natural Law. Transgressive parents nullify the institution of the family no more than abusive priests do so to the priesthood. I perceive this promotion of gender dysphoria as similar to that of homosexuality, normative sexual libertinism and all the other aspects of the sexual revolution as stemming from the same source and the objective of all is the destruction of the traditional family. Regretably, some ostensibly traditional families will be casualties of this satanic campaign, as in the examples you provide, but we must resist any and all attempts to remove authority from parents in general to that of the state, which is ultimately concerned with power, not children.
Thankyou de G - I grasp the point about parents rights. The information that seems to be under reported is the reasons why the child's medical experts believed he should not be moved. The parents in this case (given that they had the money as well) should have been allowed to take him way back in feb or whenever it was the hospital had done all they could for him. That was GOSH's mistake, in my view. However, it is also reasonable to assume that they were acting in good faith and in the baby's interests. The context to this argument really is a concern on my part about this rising tide of anti-intellectualism: experts are wrong, all news media is fake. Accompanied, as it nearly always is, by emotional language (ie "literally" taken hostage. and a judge who apparently "murdered" the baby) largely from a country which is managing to happily ignore the huge infant mortality on its own doorstep while busily lecturing Brits about one case, does make me raise an eyebrow or two. This case has been absolutely hijacked by people with half the facts, in a country which currently has a clear vested interest in telling its own citizens that "this is what happens when you have a socialist healthcare system" The dishonesty is shocking. I imagine GOSH are regretting not saying to the Gards in February "Yep. If you think that will help. We'll get you on the next flight." The whole gender thing is another unfolding nightmare: 300 children in the UK have already been prescribed hormone suppressing drugs. No hospital or doctor in the land is now going to say "No" after the Gard pantomime, are they ? After all, parents are always right. I must remember that the next time I'm trying to help the kids whose parents couldn't get them up for school because of their heroine induced stupor. Hmm.. should I ring the police or not ? tricky call now. I wouldn't want to be accused of literally taking the poor kid hostage... Do you see what I'm saying ? we are in the "feels not reals" territory nowadays with some of these half baked, empty, emotional arguments on social media. And, while I'm on a roll, this is exactly the climate created by the Nazis in the 1930's in Germany: anti-intellectualism. Sack the experts, don't listen to the journalists, they're all fake too (someone on another thread responded to my arguments by telling me not to watch the BBC - this is the level of debate we're now capable of. Frightening.).. just listen to my own self referential echo-chamber. I do worry about this very extreme "culture-war" dynamic that we seem to have exported from the US. It's dangerous. I am praying for people like the staff at GOSH and the judge because some loony could quite easily now take matters into their own hands, judging from some of the unhinged comments I've seen.
Bella, take the chip off your shoulder please and maybe sometime down the road we can have a civil pm. Until that time, I refuse to be raked for my sincerely felt posts to which you have apparently taken umbrage for no reason. Good night.
Pray for Venezuela....only getting worse. As Maria Esperanza had said .... "it" will begin here. Today: Maduro takes on unlimited powers/Authoritarianism; new phase for crisis there. .......While opinion polls say a vast majority oppose him, Maduro made clear in a televised address Saturday evening that he intends to use the assembly to govern without limitation, describing the vote as "the election of a power that's above and beyond every other" He said he wants the assembly to strip opposition legislators of their constitutional immunity from prosecution and indicated he is eager to prosecute many more members of the opposition parties that control a handful of state governments along with the National Assembly, providing one of the few remaining checks on the power of the socialist party that has ruled this OPEC nation for nearly two decades. "The right wing already has its prison cell waiting," the president said. "All the criminals will go to prison for the crimes they've committed." http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-07-30-00-18-21
The world is in quite a mess. Unfortunately, most, or at least certainly many, of those who fit into the category of 'intellectual' (academics, barristers, judges, even many theologians and eminent churchmen) are actively promoting all these progressive, degenerative trends. Unfortunately, many of those who would deem themselves 'intellectual' are possessed by hubris and believe there is either no God or that He should take their superior advice. Reason goes astray without Faith, just as Faith is blind without Reason. The 'culture-war' that you describe in the US at least represents evidence of some resistance to the forces of evil. I would consider the UK, and Ireland is catching up fast, to be far further sunk into perdition than is the US. As for the BBC, I would regard it (in common with the Irish Times) as an eminent source of news. Whatever it says I would assume to be the exact opposite of the truth. I find this works very well. In all honesty, most of the media and entertainment industry have gleefully become the mouthpiece of satan.
I saw on the news today that the USA has told its citizens in Venezuela to return home. The latest news confirms that violent protests of the election are taking place. They absolutely need our prayers. http://www.9news.com.au/world/2017/...as-venezuela-vote-triggers-war-in-the-streets
I don't think personally abusive comments are necessary, HH. I have taken no offence, I assure you. I think you may have misunderstood my keen interest in this story for something else. It's robust argument, that's all. However I completely understand if you wish to withdraw from the discussion, that is of course, your choice. No hard feelings.
The only point I would contend with you there, de G is the belief that all experts or intellectuals are on the wrong side. Catholic history shows that many intellectuals were on the side of the angels, as it were, just not of the world (only in it). I am not sure where this idea that experts and intellectuals are all wronguns has come from and, I do make the link with 1930s Germany, I'm afraid. However I have enjoyed the discussion (I think !) on what will prove to be an important case for the future. I also thankyou for the respectful manner in which you always engage with others and make your point.
Bella, I quite agree that not all experts or intellectuals are on the wrong side. The problem is that it is very difficult for them to make themselves heard and when they are, they are often misrepresented. The media are replete with agendas and they will always seek the support of the expert that supports these. There are many fine minds, providing faithful, rational counter-arguments to the madness going on around us. However, few are aware of them or know how to find them. One of the advantages of knowing one's Catholic faith is that it provides a supremely accurate instrument by which one can measure the veracity of any statement by an intellectual, assuming that it is coherent and comprehensible. If a statement is neither coherent nor comprehensible, I think it ought to be instantly dismissed. Any honest intellectual is competent to make himself clearly understood.
Bella, I have just realised your point about the injustice of someone accusing the judge of 'murdering' Charlie. This is very dangerous territory indeed. Emotions were allowed to overcome reason. This was never a 'euthanasia' issue and by presenting it as such risks discrediting the pro-life cause. Charlie was being kept alive by 'extra-ordinary means'. The Catholic teaching is that there is no compulsion to keep any human being alive in this manner. The issue is that only the parents should be the ones to make the decision to take Charlie off the ventilator, or not. Had the state ultimately been the ones to remove the ventilator, the crime would not have been the euthanasia of the child but the denial of the parents rights and responsibilities. The proponents of the culture of death would only be delighted to see the pro-life side get their premises confused and start equating 'extra-ordinary means' with the provision of water and nutrition and other supports which it is not morally permitted to deny. The killers are well able to foment confusion and tell obvious untruths, but it is absolutely vital for the credibility of the pro-life side to hold firmly to truth and reason. We know we are right. We must be seen to be so.
U.S. flies bombers over Korean peninsula after North Korea missile test http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-idUSKBN1AF02K
While the NHS deserves its great reputation, it isn't perfect and neither are all its staff. No healthcare system is perfect, and people the world over are a mix of good and bad. The bottom line is that you get what you pay for or, if you can't pay, you get what others are willing to pay for, and if you aren't wealthy someone else has more say than you in the care you have access to. I'm curious to know, Bella, whether the hospital would have gone to the same lengths to prevent his getting the experimental treatment had Charlie been the son of someone like Richard Branson. In the unlikely event that someone like Richard Branson's child would have been made a ward of Court to prevent alternative treatment, would Richard Branson's supporters have been accused of anti-intellectualism for defending parental rights?
This isn't going to end well: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/0...elming-force-in-north-korea-general-says.html US, allies prepared to use 'overwhelming force' in North Korea, general says Published July 30, 2017 Fox News Now Playing Pentagon confirms North Korea tested ICBM The U.S. and its allies are prepared to use “rapid, lethal and overwhelming force,” if necessary, against North Korea, the commander of the U.S. Pacific Air Forces warned Saturday night. The statement from Gen. Terrence J. O’Shaughnessy, U.S. Pacific Air Forces commander, came after the militaries of the U.S., South Korea and Japan spent 10 hours conducting bomber-jet drills over the Korean Peninsula. The training mission was a response to North Korea’s recent ballistic missile launches and nuclear program, and part of the U.S. regular commitment to defending its allies in the Asia-Pacific region, the general’s statement said. “North Korea remains the most urgent threat to regional stability,” O’Shaughnessy said. SLIDESHOW: U.S., SOUTH KOREA AND JAPAN CONDUCT BOMBER-JET DRILLS OVER THE KOREAN PENINSULA In demonstration of #ironclad commitment to Japan/ROK; U.S. B-1s w/JASDF F-2s, ROK F-15s conduct bilateral missions http://bit.ly/2hcv1mi — PACAF (@PACAF) 10:21 PM - Jul 29, 2017 “Diplomacy remains the lead,” he said. “However, we have a responsibility to our allies and our nation to showcase our unwavering commitment while planning for the worst-case scenario. “If called upon,” he added, “we are ready to respond with rapid, lethal and overwhelming force at a time and place of our choosing.” North Korea conducted test launches of ICBMs on July 3 and July 28, and has claimed that its weapons can now reach the U.S. mainland. The country’s recent actions have drawn condemnation from President Trump, and prompted U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson to confer with counterparts from South Korea and Japan to develop a response, Fox News has reported. Both Trump and Tillerson have criticized China, saying the Beijing government has failed to use its influence to discourage North Korea from developing its nuclear program, Fox News reported. On Saturday, two U.S. Air Force B-1B bombers, under the command of U.S. Pacific Air Forces, joined counterparts from the South Korean and Japanese air forces in sequenced bilateral missions. According to the Pentagon, the U.S. bombers took off from Andersen Air Force Base in Guam, then flew to Japanese airspace, where they were joined by two Koku Jieitai (Japan Air Self Defense Force) F-2 fighter jets. The B-1s then flew over the Korean Peninsula, where they were joined by four F-15 fighter jets from the South Korean air force. The B-1s then performed a low-pass over Osan Air Base, South Korea, before leaving South Korean airspace and returning to Guam. Throughout the approximately 10-hour mission, the air crews practiced intercept and formation functions, enabling them to improve their combined capabilities and strengthening the long-standing military-to-military relationships in the region, the Pentagon said. U.S. Pacific Command maintains flexible bomber and fighter capabilities in the Indo-Asia-Pacific theater, retaining the ability to quickly respond to any regional threat in order to defend the U.S. and its allies, the statement said. Read More Sent from my iPhone
Could this look anything "like" two stars colliding in the sky....as in Garabandal? Watch to the end: Here’s What It Might Look Like If The US Shot Down A North Korean Missile [VIDEO]
This clown is getting serious. The tests have moved way beyond the good old days. He is really putting his hand up to start the annihilation of nations. And another clown, Carlos Evaristo, telling us the Annihilation of Nations has nothing to do with war. Evaristo says that according to Sister Lucia, another Fatima message that had warned of the "annihilation of nations" pertained to the absorption of surrounding nations by Communist Russia. "It had annihilated cultures," he says. "Nations were culturally annihilated. Lucia told me it did not mean physical annihilation. It was the annihilation of nations as a people, as a race, as a culture."
