One senior cleric in the Vatican was asked why the Vatican had not released the Third Secret in 1960 was Our Lady requested. To which he replied that the Vatican would be dictated to by a bunch of illiterate peasant children. Sigh, enough said.
Thanks for answering my question. Sometimes I feel a bit guilty about my reluctance to pray for his intercession. I think there was one miracle attributed to him although I thought the standard was for a minimum of two miracles. In fairness to him, although Vatican 11 was his idea, he died before it finished so we can't blame him for the results. I don't remember much about Vatican 11. I do pray occasionally for St. John Paul's intercession on behalf of the Church. Not sure, but I don't think there were any miracles attributed to his intercession when he was canonised. Nevertheless, everyone who knew him was impressed by his personal holiness and piety, especially his devotion to the Bless Sacrament and Our Lady. He also lived and kept the faith under a Communist regime. I believe that Heaven made allowances for the mitigating factors surrounding his attempt to consecrate Russia. Pope St. John XX111 had a reputation for having a jovial and likeable personality, but I don't recall reading about his being particularly pious or holy. Then again, there are plenty of living saints that don't wear their piety on their sleeve. It's his flat refusal to carry out Our Lady's request that puts me off him. I hope he has achieved sainthood. I think that it would be impossible now, and probably was impossible during John Paul's papacy, to get all the Bishops of the world to join in a consecration of Russia. I would be very surprised if they all believe in the apparitions at Fatima.
They had the arrogance to ignore a mandate from Our Lady....wonder how that worked out for them. Shudder to think....
Honestly, I think Our Lady would honor the honest, sincere attempt from any pope to do the consecration even if some faithless bishops did not cooperate. I feel that the onus is on the pope to TRY, not dependant on his success at 100% participation by the bishops. Guess only time will tell. And purgatory, if my understanding is correct, is for all of us to achieve sainthood before entry into heaven. So, If pope john does get to heaven, he will have made sainthood much like the rest of us trying to get their
I did love John Paul II I do believe was was an extremely good and holy man, I did sense though he did have a fear in him about doing certain things including carrying out a thorough concentration of Russia. I would say he suggested doing so but was put under so much pressure to concentrate the world instead, the reason i believe this is because Our Lady did give him something in return, not what we possibly would have got but something. At the end of the day these are men and we really have to find room in our hearts for them. But the one Pope I feel is so overlooked and forgotten is Pope John Paul I we should all pray for him.
Absolutely Beth I think even with a divide in the church and even if some bishops shunned such an event this would not really matter as the ones who believe in the Dogma will be there and I rather have 10 true to the faith bishops than a 1000 doubters, and I think BVM would feel the same.
Yes, that's how I see it. Pope John Paul 11's intentions were honourable so Our Lady rewarded him. Time will tell whether all the punishments were mitigated by that consecration even if Russia is not fully converted. Bishop opposing Bishop is nothing new in the Church. I would worry about the Akita message that says Priests venerating Our Lady will be scorned and opposed by their confreres. There's little or no attempt nowadays to promote the Rosary. While I realise that some people's devotion to Our Lady goes beyond what the Church has always regarded as appropriate, I get the impression that there is a growing attitude in the Church that devotion to Our Lady and praying to saints is old fashioned and bordering on superstition. I hope I'm wrong.
Fr Amorth, the Chief Exorcist who lately died was asked by Pope St John Paul to organise the Consecration for him . If anyone should know it was him. He said the saint wanted to name Russia by name in the consecration but the that the Curia talked him out of it. I don't believe the Father thought the Consecration was fulfilled ...and who would know better than the guy that organised it? I will try and find a link.
I dunno, Padraig. According to Fr. Amorth, the Pope was asking could he not name Russia and the people around him were saying no. I didn't see anyone near the Pope in the video. In fact, he was far enough away from people to have been able to at least whisper Russia without anyone having heard him. Who were these people who told him he couldn't mention Russia?
Yes, I've read the same Padraig. Fr. Malachi also spoke about it. He said JPII twice turned to the Curia and asked if he could name Russia specifically....and twice they told him NO....supposibly for geo political reasons? But he sincerely wanted to do it. Boy, the gang in the Curia must be something else. The more I study them, the dirtier they get. Somethings got to give....this stuff with the Vatican can't go on indefinitely. Everyday churches are being closed around the world. Our youth has lost the faith.....WE ARE LIVING IN THE APOSTASY. If heaven accepted the consecration, then why is the church suffering....and how much longer. Sorry for the rant
Wow Padraig, this footage of Putin was unexpected....has me wondering! What do you think? Or any of you?
I still wonder what was the etc. part about the Dogma of the faith. Was that the part she found so difficult to put in writing? And what was so significant about 1960? I was very impressed by Fr. Malachi Martin and believed everything he said in the radio interviews until I came across this website recently: http://angelqueen.org/malachi-martin-files/ Reluctant though I am to raise this about a man who is no longer alive to defend himself, some of the stuff on the website is quite convincing. What do others make of it? I know it isn't really relevant to the Fatima topic but Fr. Martin did talk a lot about the third secret and also believed that the Consecration was unsatisfactory.
I think that the request from Our Lady of Fatima to specifically name Russia in the Consecration had a mystical significance which it still has. It was rather like the request of Our Lady of Lourdes to eat the plants at the grotto of Lourdes ; it was a gesture both of humility and obedience. People openly laughed at St Bernadette when she ate the plants and I am sure St Bernadette was realistic to know this would be the reaction but she was humble and obedient to go ahead and do it anyway. Thus Bernadette through her act of obedience reflected the obedience of Mary and doors opened. It would not have been enough for Bernadette to have picked the plants later and ate them secretly at home. That would defeated the object.
Yes, obedience and humility are traits seen in all approved visionaries. That's a lovely photo of St. Bernadette.
Then if you go to the story of Abraham being called to sacrifice his son you see the same thing on a bigger scale.
I think the request to publically Dedicate Russia had a two fold purpose. In the first place to show the obedience and humility of the Church itself. This would have opened the the door. The door that was to open was that the stick that would have beaten us, Russia would be closed. But the door is still open because the public sacrifice has not been made. Russia still waits in the wings. .....at a Mass at the Shrine of Our Lady of Fatima on May 13, 2010, Pope Benedict said: 'We would be mistaken to think that Fatima’s prophetic mission is complete.' http://www.onepeterfive.com/on-fatima-story-pope-emeritus-benedict-xvi-breaks-silence/
