The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. padraig

    padraig Powers

    No, I wish it wasn't happening. At times I think I am living in some Epic Hollywood Science Fiction Film.
     
    AED likes this.
  2. picadillo

    picadillo Guest


    Ah yes, we used to call Cardinal McCarrick Uncle Ted. He had a beach house where he would take new seminarians and, well, you can guess the rest.
     
    BrianK likes this.
  3. Mario

    Mario Powers

    In Fr. Scanlon's article the assertion that Pope Francis respects Barnard Häring is made:

    Also, in a “Dialogue” with the Jesuits at their 36th General Congregation, the pope effusively praises a morality based on the dynamic discernment of moral situations. Without discernment, he says, “we run the risk of getting used to ‘white’ or ‘black,’ to that which is legal.” In that same dialogue he compliments the work of Barnard Häring who was famous for his dissent from the teaching of Humanae Vitae and his trenchant critiques of John Paul II’s Veritatis Splendor.

    Shortly thereafter Fr. Scanlon pens a key paragraph:

    These ideas, which were popularized by Häring and other revisionists in the 1960s, represent a radical breach with the Catholic moral traditional that was most recently reaffirmed in Veritatis Splendor. John Paul II’s encyclical confirms that the faithful must acknowledge “the absolute validity of negative moral precepts which oblige without exception” (VS 76). A person who is contemplating an abortion or euthanasia does not need to “discern” whether this action is morally justified no matter how exigent the circumstances may be. The taking of innocent human life is always an objective evil. To be sure, we must follow our informed conscience. But the big question is how that conscience is formed. Is it informed only by formal principles that permit exceptions in hard cases, or is it informed both by exceptionless negative precepts that bind every conscience and by affirmative precepts where conscience has more latitude? The future of Catholic moral theology and sexual ethics hangs on how that fundamental question is resolved.

    The hierarchy of the Catholic Church is on the verge of severing the link between objective truth on one hand and mercy on the other. To do so will lead us down a disastrous path of disunity that will, in turn, violate the first distinctive mark of the Church founded by Jesus Christ: One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic!

    Pray, pray, pray!

    Safe in the Barque of Peter!
     
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  4. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    All of this does have a very surreal quality to it. When I first joined this forum not even two years ago it was fun and exciting to see the news and try to guess if we were entering the prophetic times. Now however the feeling I have is entirely different. There seems no question to me anymore that we have arrived. I find myself thinking "This can't really be happening" all the time. And if these things are actually happening then the truly horrible things that are supposed to follow will be coming up on us all as well. I don't really think my mind can comprehend actually going through things like the Three Days of Darkness (if I even make it that far). They seem like fantastical events, yet the other things which were supposed to happen prophetically seem to be occurring.
     
  5. Mary's child

    Mary's child Powers

    Yes...The same i am feeling that everything going on is very surreal, with people asleep all around not seeing or hearing the signs around us.
     
  6. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Yes, that is a good point too that I didn't mention. It is very odd to know these things are about to happen and that almost everybody else has no idea. I will see someone on television talking about their plans for the future as if everything will continue as "normal" forever. Yet it seems that total catastrophe is what is more likely to happen.
     
    BrianK likes this.
  7. lynnfiat

    lynnfiat Fiat Voluntas Tua

    Jesus to the Pope: “My Church seems to be dying, especially with regard to the social conditions, which anxiously wait for the cry of death. But, courage, my son; after you have reached the top of the mountain, as the Cross is lifted up, all will be shaken, and the Church will lay down Her aspect of a dying one, and will reacquire Her full vigor. The Cross alone is the means for it. Just as the Cross alone was the only means to fill the void which sin had made, and to unite the abyss of infinite distance that existed between God and man; in the same way, in these times the Cross alone will make my Church’s forehead rise, with courage and splendor, so as to confuse and put to flight the enemies.” Vol. 4, Sept. 2, 1901

    When reading the above words of Our Lord, remember there is no time with God! As Padre Pio says, "Pray, hope and don't worry". All is in God's Divine Will - He has a plan!
     
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  8. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    And yet the wise, centuries-old Christian attitude towards all these problems is so simple and yet profound: love the sinner, hate the sin.

    Why have we strayed so far from this simple formula?
     
  9. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    Remember to keep your eye on their ultimate goal.


    http://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/lgbt-group-maltas-bishops-and-guidelines-are-pro-gay

    LGBT Group: Malta Bishops’ Guidelines Extend Communion to Active Gays
    [​IMG]
    by Bradley Eli, M.Div., Ma.Th. • ChurchMilitant.com • January 24, 2017 42 Comments
    VALLETTA, Malta (ChurchMilitant.com) - Pro-gay New Ways Ministry is arguing that both Malta's bishops and their new guidelines, which admit sexually active divorced people to Holy Communion, are gay-friendly.

    New Ways Ministry — a group that has been condemnedy by the Vatican as well as by the U.S. Bishops for its dissent on Church teaching on homosexuality — makes the case that Malta's guidelines, which are an attempt to implement the papal exhortation Amoris Laetitia (AL), logically extend to gay couples.

    A recent article appearing on the gay group's blog January 23 contends, "Maltese bishops Charles Scicluna and Mario Grech primarily addressed the situation of Catholics who are divorced and civilly remarried. Yet the principles they laid out are transferable to LGBT Catholics and their loved ones, too."

    Paragraph 10 of the Malta guidelines put out January 6 read:

    If, as a result of the process of discernment, undertaken with "humility, discretion and love for the Church and her teaching" ... a separated or divorced person who is living in a new relationship manages, with an informed and enlightened conscience, to acknowledge and believe that he or she are at peace with God, he or she cannot be precluded from participating in the sacraments of Reconciliation and the Eucharist.



    Robert Shine, author of the New Ways Ministry article, sees paragraph 10 as key. "The document's principle that I consider most relevant for LGBT Catholics is the bishops' treatment of people who are not sacramentally married, specifically those Catholics who are cohabitating or who have had a civil marriage ceremony but not a church one."

    Shine admits that "complex family situations" mentioned in Malta's guidelines applies to "heteronormative" or straight couples, but could easily encompass the "irregular situations" of gay couples. He further claims that gay couples have allegedly been shown less "mercy" than straight couples who are civilly remarried.

    "Sacraments have been denied to them, and LGBT church workers have been fired, while heterosexual people in similar moral situations have not been held to the same standard," he complained.

    Shine believes that decisions by gay couples should be respected as much as those of straight couples, who "have already undergone a journey of conscience formation and discernment" and have made an "honest decision before God."

    Referencing AL, Shine says gay couples should not be told by the Church what's moral, but like civilly remarried couples, should be allowed to decide for themselves. "[T]he Church is supposed to help form, not replace, consciences, and it is to respect people's conscience decisions once made," he insisted.

    New Ways Ministry praises not only Malta's guidelines as being gay-friendly but also Malta's two bishops who co-authored the document, saying they "have fairly good records on LGBT issues," citing the following examples:

    • Bp. Grech was more inclusive of gays at the 2014 Vatican Synod

    • Abp. Scicluna affirmed a priest who blessed a same-sex couple

    • Abp. Scicluna criticized a right-wing blogger for his "homophobic" language

    • Abp. Scicluna said the Church should apologize to gay couples

    • Abp. Scicluna condemned gay conversion therapy
    Added to the list is Bp. Grech's statement in 2015 that affirmed the decisions of gay couples. In an interview pertaining to the family synod, Bp. Grech related, "This year the synod said that families who have homosexual members need to be supported, their decisions respected and not hindered in any way."

    Asked at that time if same-sex couples will be allowed to accompany their children to Holy Communion, the prelate responded, "Yes."

    Shine wishes that the Maltese guidelines were more explicitly inclusive of gay couples, but "given the bishops' own more positive records on LGBT issues,"he says, "a generous interpretative lens" is warranted.
     
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  10. soldier of christ

    soldier of christ Archangels

    What are you referencing here? Vol.4, Sept 2, 1901
     
  11. lynnfiat

    lynnfiat Fiat Voluntas Tua

    This is taken from "The Book of Heaven" as dictated to Luisa Piccarreta by Our Lord.
     
  12. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Yes but this is happening at the very,very worse time it could be happening. When we are weakest. I sense the devil's hand in all this.

    I have often wished on the Forum we could return to simpler times and just go back to discussing prayer, spirituality. Mysticism, angels and so on. But the needs of the times are so urgent we must turn to all this wicked nonsense. But oh how I wish we could return to simpler topics.

    But, as I say the Times are very ,very urgent. What a pity. What a great, great pity.
     
  13. padraig

    padraig Powers

    But when I can I return to simpler things. How sad this all makes me. So very,very,very sad.

     
    JAA, djmoforegon and Fatima like this.
  14. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Yip - they want the doors wide open for the rainbow people. Absolutely, no doubt about that.
     
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  15. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Yes, God has a plan that will be fulfilled, however, our intercessory prayers offered in union with the Divine Will, should be informed by the reality of the current dilemma. This must also mean that our time should not be needlessly taken up with digesting every morsel of news and debate. Now, that can prove to be quite the balancing act!:barefoot::)

    As Padre Pio says, "Pray, hope and don't worry."

    Safe in the Refuge of the Immaculate Heart!
     
    Booklady, Clare A and lynnfiat like this.
  16. picadillo

    picadillo Guest

    If anyone is confused on where the "servant of servants" stands on this issue, watch what he does or, presumably, what he does not do.
     
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  17. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    Things are taking a very rapid slide downhill :(
     
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  18. AED

    AED Powers

    This is like the worst kind of bad dream. No waking up . I fear it will get worse. There is a website "operation storm heaven" if you don't know of it please check it out. It is Cardinal Burke's Rosary Crusade.
     
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  19. AED

    AED Powers

    Yes I believe you are right. The Church has been weakened and her enemies are running the show. I for one am so grateful for thus forum and for the wisdom and charity I find here whatever we discuss. Just read a piece commenting on Malta by a priest. He thinks this must be a trial balloon to see how it flies in a very conservative diocese.
     
    Heidi likes this.
  20. Richard67

    Richard67 Powers

    That was an interesting quote. It reminded me of the prophecy given to Saint Faustina by Our Lord of a great cross appearing in the sky.
     

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