Discerning Apparitions

HullyGee!! Why do I get the feeling that the HeartLight Folks are "Targeting" me today!!??

HeartLight Daily Verse - 13 September

1 Peter 3:8
Live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble.

Thoughts on today's verse:
Unity and harmony are no accident! They happen because of intention and submission. But more than just states of being, they are commanded by God. How do we have unity and harmony? Peter reminds us that we must have three commitments 1) actively share concern with those who grieve; 2) share love just like a healthy family does; and 3) show compassion rather than arrogance as we deal with others failures toward us.
Prayer:
Father, I confess that I have let my own over-sensitive self be wounded, and have reacted with pettiness when my brothers and sisters in Christ have not treated me as I felt I deserved. I know Jesus was treated so rudely and shamefully by those he created, so I know I shouldn't be surprised. But Father, please help me to know when to challenge those who wound me with a loving confrontation and when to just ignore the barb and find a way to minister to them because of some deeper wound in their life. Father, let me be an instrument of your peace, harmony, and unity. Through Jesus I pray. Amen.
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GOD SAVE ALL HERE!!

 

I wish i had more time...the moment you say God is speaking directly to you. Face to face...all things change. Yes, Character comes to play. If he would have said interior locutions...maybe I could jump on band wagon. But talking to God and Angels...you have just become chosen by God. All bets are off. You may live a ordinary life BUT character does come into play. I am not ashamed of liking Harper's comment...it is not saying anything wrong.

If one decides to say you are directly speaking to God...then you better walk the walk.

Brother
Al

 

I really know very little about Charlie apart from his talks (on video) where he speaks well and gives good advice in my book. I became rather interested in his mission when all the attacks began on him!

I haven't encountered him saying he speaks to God face to face. I have only encountered him saying he speaks to an angel. I feel he is listening to the Holy Spirit but as to his encounters with an angel, I think we are about to find out.

I thought it might be helpful to put on a post on this forum his words about the US election which he published on January 8, 2016:

I have often said there will be no presidential election this year. Actually, there are some narrow circumstances in which there could be, but the results would be irrelevant. What I was told was that President Obama would not finish his term and that our next stable national leader will not come from the election process. You could have an explosion of events after an election and before an inauguration. You could have Obama declare a national emergency, cancel elections, extend his term and then depart before the extension was up. The most likely scenario is that everything will be up in the air before election, but there are narrow circumstances where that may not be.

https://charliej373.wordpress.com/2016/07/22/through-a-glass-darkly-redux/

​

 

Charlie is as harmless as a dear old grandad.

Too many people getting heated up and heady over very little in my opinion. I don't see too much wrong with what he posts so I am with Crew Dog on this one.

Time will tell if Charlie is correct and when we enter the storm (and perhaps soon or not?).

 

Charlie is good guy. He has some very down to earth and spiritual ideas. I have no issues with him. Its just when you throw yourself to the public. And that is not a bad thing. And you claim direct spiritual messages. In my humble opinion... you have entered into a different world. You are comunicating with the spiritual. That changes you completely. So whats seems normal to us...is not normal. If God (or the other guy) has chosen you and you accepted His calling. Then you are all in...you can't be lukewarm like Brother al. I just think Charlie is a very smart man with some very spiritual ideas. God Bless his vocation. But to carry Gods cross you have to be all in...not lukewarm. And yes that cigarette is a issue. Not for ordinary saints but for Rockstar saints. The closer one gets to God...you battle and conquor all physical attachments. You might fall but you still battle and try to overcome.

Just some thoughts

 

Lynn,
Do you remember where this quote comes from? It was a good short presentation.

 

Hi Harper,
I know your question was for Lynn, but I was curious so I ran a reverse search and it came up with this page:
http://www.miraclehunter.com/marian_apparitions/discernment/

 

Perhaps Lynn found it on the miracle hunter website: http://www.miraclehunter.com/marian_apparitions/discernment/

 

Ha Ha!
We must have posted the same thing within a minute of each other

 

Yes. Two minutes between your post and mine, which is probably about the length of time it took me to post the link. That's an interesting page on Miracle Hunter.

 

Yes it is an interesting page. Personally I always err towards caution with apparitions. Pretty much just sticking with what is already approved by the Church. We are warned that in the end times there will be a large increase in the number of false apparitions so it pays to be careful. I think many people are far too loose with what they pay attention to.

There is a much more detailed list on the net somewhere of what the Church uses to discern whether an apparition/message is from Heaven or not. It includes such things as "Are the message voluminous?" "Do they talk about daily things like cell phones and elections?" These and other things are clues the messages are not from Heaven.

 

Thank you both for the link. Guess I got lazy...

 

If I may I will just post on this thread a link to a fascinating and detailed report of a journalist's recent visit to Medjugorje that I've just posted on a Medjugorje thread. The journalist really does his best to report his experiences in a neutral fashion:

http://motheofgod.com/threads/medjugorje.9680/#post-146578

 

You're welcome. My search produced a couple of interesting pieces about how the Church discerns apparitions. According to one of them dated around 2010, the Church was reviewing the guidelines with a view to possibly updating them. I can't find that link now but it turns out that the guidelines were not changed.

This report says that the guidelines were translated from Latin into modern languages and made available online because unauthorised translations had been appearing around the world: https://www.ncronline.org/news/vatican/vatican-publishes-rules-verifying-visions-mary
They also say that "more than 1,500 visions of Mary have been reported around the world, but in the past century, only nine cases have received church approval as worthy of belief". Although the headline says that the rules are for "verifying visions of Mary", the body of the text quotes the CDF as saying that the translations were published "to aid the pastors of the Catholic Church in their difficult task of discerning presumed apparitions, revelations, messages or, more generally, extraordinary phenomena of presumed supernatural origin". I followed their link to the website of the CDF but didn't have time to search the site for the guidelines.

 

I had another look at the Vatican Website and found this: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...cfaith_doc_19780225_norme-apparizioni_en.html Among other norms for judging the likely authenticity of apparitions, the positive and negative criteria are listed as follows:

CRITERIA FOR JUDGING, AT LEAST WITH PROBABILITY,
THE CHARACTER
OF THE PRESUMED APPARITIONS OR REVELATIONS

A) Positive Criteria:

a) Moral certitude, or at least great probability of the existence of the fact, acquired by means of a serious investigation;

b) Particular circumstances relative to the existence and to the nature of the fact, that is to say:

1. Personal qualities of the subject or of the subjects (in particular, psychological equilibrium, honesty and rectitude of moral life, sincerity and habitual docility towards Ecclesiastical Authority, the capacity to return to a normal regimen of a life of faith, etc.);

2. As regards revelation: true theological and spiritual doctrine and immune from error;

3. Healthy devotion and abundant and constant spiritual fruit (for example, spirit of prayer, conversion, testimonies of charity, etc.).

B) Negative Criteria:

a) Manifest error concerning the fact.

b) Doctrinal errors attributed to God himself, or to the Blessed Virgin Mary, or to some saint in their manifestations, taking into account however the possibility that the subject might have added, even unconsciously, purely human elements or some error of the natural order to an authentic supernatural revelation (cf. Saint Ignatius, Exercises, no. 336).

c) Evidence of a search for profit or gain strictly connected to the fact.

d) Gravely immoral acts committed by the subject or his or her followers when the fact occurred or in connection with it.

e) Psychological disorder or psychopathic tendencies in the subject, that with certainty influenced on the presumed supernatural fact, or psychosis, collective hysteria or other things of this kind.

It is to be noted that these criteria, be they positive or negative, are not peremptory but rather indicative, and they should be applied cumulatively or with some mutual convergence.

 

I do find it rather curious that both Dolours and Harper have this interest in rules for discernment of private revelation when both of them believe that

1. no apparition should be followed unless authorised by the Church.

and

2. they don't believe in any contemporary apparitions anyway.​

Perhaps they could clarify why they are interested. Could I offer my own suggested reason? Perhaps having 'rules' available that might justify their position of non belief is important for them?

 

David,

Wrong on both counts. How can you possibly assume you know what I believe about discernment? In the Charlie Johnston thread, for example, you asked me to give a summary of my concerns about him since you didn't have time or inclination to look back over past comments to see what had already been posted.

Respectfully, I suggest you ascertain facts before you speak. I've mentioned places and people I follow. Do research. I wonder why you jump in with criticism so quickly, but I'm not included to post on something I cannot know, and I don't chose to post speculation on someone's character.

 

How very sad that helping someone find the source of a quoted list can be so misrepresented.

It's even more sad that following the Church's advice is being used as a stick to beat Catholics.

May God help you, David, towards a more charitable outlook towards others.

 

Wow, I'm 'beating' fellow Catholics am I? I somehow seem to present an aggressive image which does not represent my nature.

Can I ask the question in a simpler manner. As I understand that neither of you believe in any contemporary apparitions and that, in any case, you do not believe they should be followed unless authorised by the Church, can you explain your interest in the rules you have been mentioning.

 

I really am surprised to read that you do follow some contemporary mystics/seers and I apologize for assuming otherwise. But I have never noticed any post from you where you have mentioned such people. Are you prepared to tell us who they are?