"Francis has been totally orthodox..can only be faulted by faulty reading"

Well we agree on one thing - the text you posted does not contradict the truth that virginity is a higher calling... I am quite a fan of Saint John Paul II, having named my youngest son after him.

As for what the current pope meant...

1) In all honesty you have no idea. What you are proposing is a possible interpretation. I'd prefer To let paragraph and the pope to speak for itself/himself? The theologians have asked for clarification - If he indeed has meant it the way you say then I would expect it to be no problem to say so.

2) Why on earth would he state the obvious that each person has a special gift from God? And what purpose does that serve? The paragraph is about virginity, it would be rather of out of place in context.

3) Please stop providing quotes from JPII that neglect the mention of superiority and supposedly prove that he agree with Pope Francis. I will spare the long list of quotes from The good saintly pope, but can you find just one instance in which Pope Francis confirms the superiority of virginity in this document? Just one?

The theologians who have crafted this document are no slouches. There is theological heft to their arguments. A five minute Google search is not going o be able to prove them wrong.

God bless you as well, and I truly mean it.

 

Well FS, I don't know why I would deserve the condescending title. As my wife would attest to, I am no saint (hopefully one day though by God's grace).

I don't have the appetite for a back and forth over this point largely because frankly you are clearly incorrect. Thousands of years of Church Tradition will attest to this fact as well as a pluthera of Saint quotes/teachings.

God bless you and your loved ones. I will say a prayer for you tonight, please be so kind as to say one for me.

Good night all.

 

Not condescending...we are all saints. If we weren't... then we are on the other team.

 

New interview: Cardinal Burke says ‘I will never be part of a schism’https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/new-interview-cardinal-burke-says-i-will-never-be-part-of-a-schism

 

Yes, it is good to read this from Cardinal Burke. As I mentioned in an earlier post (at http://motheofgod.com/threads/cardi...ird-secret-of-fatima.9196/page-18#post-141497 ) I view the Cardinal as a 'Gamaliel like figure' whose heart is in the right place. He sees things differently from Pope Francis but he lacks the harshness evident in some who differ from Francis.

For those who know nothing of Gamaliel, I copy below a few sentences from a Wikipedia article on him. But for anyone who really wants to know more about him, read Maria Valtorta's Poem books!

Gamaliel was a leading authority in the Sanhedrin in the early 1st century CE. He was the son of Simeon ben Hillel, and grandson of the great Jewish teacher Hillel the Elder, and died twenty years before the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem.

In the Christian tradition, Gamaliel is recognized as a Pharisee doctor of Jewish Law. The Acts of the Apostles chapter 5 speaks of Gamaliel as a man, held in great esteem by all Jews, who spoke to not condemn the apostles of Jesus in Acts 5:34 to death, and as the Jewish law teacher of Paul the Apostle in Acts 22:3.
​

 

Here is what Cardinal Burke said in his phone interview, taken from the website which made the interview:

“I know about all these depictions. People call me ‘the enemy of the pope’ and so forth. I have never been and I am not presently the enemy of the pope,” Burke told RNS by telephone recently from his home state of Wisconsin, where he was spending time this summer.

“I have never, in anything I’ve said, shown disrespect to the papal office, because the Catholic Church doesn’t exist without the office of Peter,” he said, referring to the apostle who Catholic tradition views as the first bishop of Rome and therefore the first pope in an unbroken succession up to the present day.

“I’ve said to the pope himself, in conversations with him — and these by the way are friendly conversations — I told him, ‘Holy Father, the only way I can serve you is by speaking the truth in the best and clearest way possible.’ His response to me is: ‘That’s what I want.’”

The cardinal said that his own critics — his outspokenness has left no shortage of those — “would like to construe my relationship with the Holy Father as some kind of ongoing hostility or war between this reform of the church, this revolutionary reform (that Francis is promoting), and these old die-hards who resist it. That simply is not the case.”

During the course of a half-hour conversation, Burke did continually return to his commitment “to simply speak up to defend what the church has always taught and practiced.”

....

But when asked directly, Burke is equally firm that whatever happens, he has no intention of leading a breakaway, schismatic movement, an option some on the Catholic right have contemplated.

“Absolutely not,” he said. “I will never leave the Catholic Church. No matter what happens I intend to die a Roman Catholic. I will never be part of a schism.

“I’ll just keep the faith as I know it and respond in the best way possible. That’s what the Lord expects of me. But I can assure you this: You won’t find me as part of any schismatic movement or, God forbid, leading people to break away from the Catholic Church. As far as I’m concerned, it’s the church of our Lord Jesus Christ and the pope is his vicar on earth and I’m not going to be separated from that.”


http://religionnews.com/2016/08/22/cardinal-burke-insists-he-is-serving-francis-not-opposing-him/ ​

​

 

No, not rude. It's just the "few" always run the good ones out. Sorry if it offened you. No one should "attack" a new member without basis. if you go back to the beginning of the thread, you'll see for yourself.
Everyone is divided. Just as seers have predicted. I have distanced myself from the forum due to the Pope haters.
We're all family in the One True Catholic Faith, I think?
This forum is supposed to be dedicated to Our Most Holy Mother in Heavan. Sometimes it seems very Protestant.
But, overall. I do find the members to be quite inspiring. So thank you to those members.

 

I hope you are not calling Brian a Pope hater. Brian was gracious enough to apologise to Janet for not giving her a warm welcome to the forum. What a pity you couldn't be equally gracious.

I haven't come across any Pope haters here. Since your accusation is broad enough to include anyone who doesn't hang on every word that comes out of the Pope's mouth, I suppose I could be numbered among your definition of hater. Incidentally, hate being a mortal sin, you might want to check the beam in your own eye before making such a serious allegation against other members of the forum.

Meanwhile, perhaps you or some other member of the forum can cast some light on how a George Soros funded organisation can confidently state at one of their meetings: "we will support PICO’s organizing activities to engage the Pope on economic and racial justice issues, including using the influence of Cardinal Rodriguez, the Pope’s senior advisor" https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/b...george-soros-paid-to-influence-bishops-during . If you don't trust LifeSite News, they provide a link to the document so you can read it yourself. Mr. Soros got value for his money.

Bad enough that George Soros has even the remotest ties to anyone in the Vatican. That they can use the influence of a Cardinal advising the Pope is very worrying indeed. Lest you think that Mr. Soros is any friend of Catholic values, you might want to check out the Soros plans for abortion in Ireland: http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/n...-first-step-against-catholic-countries-97748/

Ireland will host the next World Meeting of Families. We have already had a collection at Mass to fund it, and have been told that there will be further collections. Our contributions might buy us a dot in the distance view of the Pope if we stand around for hours. I wonder how much it costs to buy the kind of influence that the Soros outfit is so sure of.

 

Hi Frodo,

" Why on earth would he state the obvious that each person has a special gift from God? And what purpose does that serve?"

Because he is quoting various passages from St Paul's writings...Love is patient kind etc. Then he comes to the part where Paul is explaining why some people don't marry but stay celibate for the Kingdom, which in no way is a demand by Christ, and is only meant for those who can do it.

AL "Virginity is a form of love. As a sign, it speaks to us of the coming of the Kingdom and the need for complete devotion to the cause of the Gospel (cf. 1 Cor 7:32). It is also a re-flection of the fullness of heaven, where “they neither marry not are given in marriage”

AL ...." Rather than speak ABSOLUTELY of the superiority of virginity...." "Absolutely" is a stand-in for yes..... in the strongest possible terms" it then goes on to tell us that the " different states of life complement one another, and consequently that some can be more perfect in one way and others in another. Perfection is possible and accessible to every person.

God Bless You

 

St Thomas More understood the situation well.

'' ..'to be a chaste husband rather than an impure priest"



And who is questioning the higher calling?

 

Real Pope haters

Rangers fans singing Follow Follow
“F*** the Pope and the Vatican



No Rangers fans or Pope Haters on this forum.

 

"People call me the enemy of the Pope" Cardinal Burke.

Burke's position perfectly illustrates the position of many Catholics who receive unfair abuse because they oppose a liberal interpretation of AL.

Even on this forum they are labelled Pope haters.

As for the prospect of a 'conservative' schism I think the case for this is weak. After all the Church is awash with liberals and heretics like the Association of Catholic Priests who stayed within to undermine Church teaching. They need to be opposed and confronted for holding heterodox views. I doubt their bishops are going to do it.

 

You really need to examine your conscience.

It is easy to call names.

There are no Pope haters on this forum.

 

Funny, same group that keeps trying to bring up same argument. At least one thing has happened...the name calling and lack of respect shown to Our Holy Father has stopped.

And being called a Protestant isn't as bad as saying "i hope he dies soon, that Borgilio guy, worst Pope ever, intellectually stupid, " i can go on and on.

A Protestant is someone who rejects papal authority. If the shoe fits.

 

Who on this forum said that they hope the Pope dies soon?

Can you address the question of how a Soros funded organisation has influence with a senior advisor to the Pope? You would have to be blind not to see the influence reflected in recent encyclicals. "Faulty reading"? I think not. Neither is it a coincidence. The Soros man in the Vatican is the same Cardinal who told Cardinal Muller to "lighten up" putting the concerns of the Prefect of the CDF down to his being a rigid German. According to the wikileaks documents, the Soros people want the Church to get back on track with the liberalism that infiltrated the Church following the Second Vatican Council and they see their main opponents as some right wing bishops who oppose the gay and pro-choice agenda. Christ's Church is being turned into just another Soros funded NGO before our eyes, and anyone who opposes it will be called a homophobe, woman hater and Pope hater. Money talks. The language used to drown out Catholic voices in the secular world has found its way into the Church.

 

Perhaps everyone can agree one the following categorization:

The forum has quite a few members who are critical of the Holy Father. They are critics of Pope Francis if not haters, where the term 'critics' means: - people who frequently express unfavorable opinions of Pope Francis, either directly or by implication.

 

Janet, it would be helpful if when you post a reply to someone that you do so by clicking on the 'Reply' link at the bottom of every post. Your thoughtful replies will be easier to follow if we have the original post visible to which you are replying. I realize you include a sentence from the person's post but the context is also useful to have. Just a suggestion

 

Hi David,

I thought I was clicking on the reply link. Yes I understand about using the full quote. I'm used to posting in sites that don't have this facility so will be wary of this in future.

Thanks David.

 

Hi Dolours,

"we will support PICO’s organizing activities to engage the Pope on economic and racial justice issues, including using the influence of Cardinal Rodriguez, the Pope’s senior advisor"

Is there a proven link between Soros and Cardinal Rodriguez ?

 

I am biting my tongue right now. It has to do with globalists,masons, satanists, and cooperating with them. The "new" social justice church.