Disobedience to authority goes to the very heart of the devil's fall. Thirty odd years of disobedience to the local bishop is hardly what I would call good fruit. Thirty odd years of setting up the Catholic Church for another massive public scandal is hardly what I would call good fruit.
My understanding: The devil plays the long game. He is willing to promote all sorts of good things if, in the end, he can turn religious seekers into committed followers of a false idea or prophet. He will tolerate candlelight Rosary processions if the end is rejection of legitimate church authority. (Example, the Holy Love Ministry people in Ohio were big on Rosaries to save the unborn, but then they started to alter the words of the Rosary. Edited to add: And started a cult of personality around the founder/seer. Now Holy Love is condemned.) Whether or not a priest or bishop is sinful -- or even in a state of mortal sin-- does not mean he has lost the ability to perform priestly duties. For example, a priest stealing from the poorbox can forgive sins in confession and confect the Eurcharist (provided he uses the right words, the right matter and has the intent). Look up Donatism.
My experience of false contemporary prophecy (which is far more extensive than the authentic in my view) is that the devil is generally pursuing the believer. This is why I believe many false messages have been and are promoted on this forum. It is because this is what the devil is good at. He is good at mimicking and is able to present himself as 'good'. He is able to persuade the believer and ultimately lead him astray. I don't believe he is particularly interested in 'rejection of legitimate church authority'. I don't think he could care less one way or the other. What he wants is to lead us away from God and Jesus. This can happen if a believer gets involved in false messages and then gets discouraged when he finds they are not true.
Of course the devil wants you to reject legitimate authority! When you reject legitimate church authority, you move away from God. You are in rebellion, which is where the devil dwells. There isn't a whole lot of daylight between God (not "and" Jesus) and his Mystical Body.
That is an interesting comment, Harper. But I think there is quite a lot of daylight between 'legitimate authority' and Jesus' Mystical Body. Additionally, we get into a minefield when trying to define 'legitimate authority'.
I should revise my statement. There is no daylight between legitimate church authority and Jesus's Mystical Body.
Good Fruits is a sign that something is of God. It is not the only requirement for discerning when an apparition is genuine. Medjugorje is proof of that, when a local Bishop chooses to ignore what most of us can see. In the case of Medjugorje, it is naïve to say it has produced a FEW good fruits. It has produced an incredibly high number of good fruits by way of conversions and vocations especially to the Priesthood. In many instances I understand Priests who had grown cold in their ministry have been rejuvenated spiritually, and that is no small matter. What I would love to know from those who resist the hope that Medjugorje is really genuine; do these people pray the Rosary every day. Do they fast at least once a week. Do they make regular Confessions. Do they receive Holy Eucharist worthily and frequently. Do they practise Eucharistic Adoration. Do they read the Holy Bible each day. If the answer to all those questions is yes, you are already doing everything the Medjugorje messages are asking. So what is the problem. Some of us needed to be reminded what we ought to be doing if we want to call ourselves Catholic. And Medjugorje has opened my eyes to the things we need to be doing. So the devil has done a great job of converting hundreds of thousands of souls in the last 30 or so years if he is the one making the sun dance and things turn to gold and miraculous healings leading to repentance. We have to wait and see. Why would Saint John Paul the Great call Medjugorje the Spiritual Centre of the World, if it is not of God. Or do Saints beliefs not really matter.
I made two pilgrimages to Medjugorje in the 1980's, and came back truly convinced that it was a holy place. I was zealous in spreading the messages and the experience really deepened my love for Jesus and the Blessed Mother. But...In the early 2000's, I attended a Medjugorje conference at Notre Dame, with Mirjana and Father Petar as the keynote speakers. During a break, there was a table set up where a group was promoting the building of a viewing platform to witness the Miracle in Medjugorje. Mirjana also mentioned this viewing platform/building when she was speaking, so I took a brochure and thought it was legitimate. The brochure asked that we purchase bricks at $500.00 a piece, these bricks would be engraved with names. I purchased two bricks in honor of my two lost babies, and was joyful in thinking about viewing the Miracle and seeing their names on the bricks. I sent a $1000.00 dollar check to the organization. Months later, I called the number on the brochure to check the progress, and could not get an answer. Every few months, I called the number and finally one day a woman answered and told me that she was not involved in the project but knew the people who were and that the project was put on "hold". I was not allowed to speak to anyone else and was told that my donation would not be returned to me. I felt scammed and was heartbroken. Medjugorje is a true mystery to me.
This is a terrible story that you relate here, Monica. It would be completely understandable for you to walk away from Medjugorje after that experience. But I can assure you that Mirjana would be horrified with this story as well. I don't know what was being done at the Notre Dame event or when this occurred. It might have been connected with the MaryTV project which has a building in Medjugorje but I suspect the 'brick' project was something dreamed up by an over enthusiastic Medjugorje lover. But try not to let the incident cloud your view of what is happening there.
Hi Monica I don't know if you are aware but I spent some time in Medjugore helping to build a little chapel beside apparition hill if you email the details of your experience I will try and find out what happened I still have a good few contact/resources that can find out what happened, unfortunately with any apparition sites there are always scam artists at work... When I finished working in Medjugore I brought a piece of the granite rock home with me, at the time I didn't know why but after reading your post it has became very clear, if you let me know the names of your children I will have the granite engraved with their names and will personally make sure that the piece of granite will be placed at the foot of Our Lady on apparition hill.. P.s. I have just noticed something and this might blow your socks of my brother moved from Ireland 25 years ago ??? he lives in Collierville this has knocked me for six wow how God works I read this post today and have just learned in the last few minutes that my brother arrived home this morning for a visit so if you wish Monica I will give him the piece of granite and he can hand it to you personally so that you can bring it with you when you visit Medjugore. two things hit me clearly about this story and they have been special in my life.. Our Lady has given Monica her stone to overcome darkness.. View attachment 5194 and the poem that means so much to me ..sand and stone Sand and Stone! A story tells of two friends who were walking through the desert. During some point of the journey, they had an argument, and one friend slapped the other one in the face. The one who got slapped was hurt, but without saying anything, she wrote in the sand: "TODAY MY BEST FRIEND SLAPPED ME IN THE FACE" They kept on walking, until they found an oasis, where they decided to take a bath. The one who had been slapped got stuck in the mire and started drowning, but her friend saved her. After she recovered from the near drowning, she wrote on a stone: "TODAY MY BEST FRIEND SAVED MY LIFE" The friend, who had slapped and saved her best friend, asked her, "After I hurt you, you wrote in the sand, and now, you write on a stone, why?" The other friend replied: "When someone hurts us, we should write it down in sand, where the winds of forgiveness can erase it, but when someone does something good for us, we must engrave it in stone, so no wind can ever erase it." LEARN TO WRITE YOUR HURTS IN THE SAND AND TO CARVE YOUR BLESSINGS IN STONE. View attachment 5195
Here is a pic of the granite/marble I took it from the foundation site of the castle in medjugore View attachment 5198 The castle View attachment 5199 Nancy and Patricks castle.. http://www.medjugorjemiracles.com/2011/10/famous-medjugorje-testimony-of-conversion-patrick-latta/
These are the same arguments the Vatican and Bishops are having. The lines are drawn...disobedience & financial gain vs fruits of Medjaorgi. My grandma believed but I do not. Something is going on, some kind of spiritual battle but not sure if it's 100% good. I believe the Vatican has silenced the visionaries. So that is a good sign...can they handle obedience. And I think I read a shrine is officially being built. Only time will tell...but something is going on. May Gods Will be Done
It seems that so many of us here keep getting "Wrapped Around the Axle" about whether this/that apparition or that Holy Joe/Jane is The Real Deal or ... What!!?? Remember!! Even approved, by The Church, Apparitions and/or private revelations are not mandatory ... just worthy of belief ...... soooo ... why all the wasted time and worry! I can't help but believe that there so many of these "Out-There" so each one of us can "Pick-a-Winner"! Divine Mercy is the "Winner" I picked .... go find one that suits you and let others do the same .............. and use your spare time more efficiently on matters like: How are you/yours gonna survive The Storm??" 1 Thessalonians 5 But of the times and moments, brethren, you need not, that we should write to you; For yourselves know perfectly, that the day of the Lord shall so come, as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, peace and security; then shall sudden destruction come upon them, as the pains upon her that is with child, and they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. For all you are the children of light, and children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore, let us not sleep, as others do; but let us watch, and be sober ........................ Always rejoice. Pray without ceasing.In all things give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you all. Extinguish not the spirit. Despise not prophecies. But prove all things; hold fast that which is good. From all appearance of evil refrain yourselves.............The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen. GOD SAVE ALL HERE!!
Quis ut Deus, Im not sure what happened to my message, but I wanted to tell you that was the most generous thing I've witnessed in a long time. For you to offer that To Monica was so pure and selfless. So, thank you from Florence, South Carolina, USA -Karen
