Cardinal Ratzinger: We Have Not Published the Whole Third Secret of Fatima

I'll let others here decide for themselves who the Troll is. I don't know who Kevin is? He is probably a good guy but seems too taken with himself and his youthful, know-it-all, arrogance has managed to PO a few people... including me! Perhaps he has learned a good "Life Lesson" here ... I hope so for his sake!

GOD SAVE ALL HERE!!

 

Lol yes my sentiments too.

 

CrewDog, I don't understand how taunting others and boasting of teaching life lessons furthers any discussion on a Catholic forum. As I said elsewhere, what I'm seeing reminds me of school-yard bullies.

 

Kevin caught in a lie and being deceitful ???

Im shocked!!!



But I shouldnt be. Pretty much a prerequisite to work with WAF.

 

Web Application Firewall? What are you talking about, Mac?

 

World Apostolate of Fatima

 

Oh.

Pro wrestling was going to be my next guess...

 

Is WAF good or bad?

Never heard of it

 

Well I dont think they have done such a great job lately.
Dont get me wrong. The Blue Army did an excellent job for many years.

What we need to take a good look at is the 1989 letter that many hold so much importance too.

World peace or war is at stake.
Sr Lucia says ..."The devil does all in his power to distract us and to take away from us the love for prayer; we shall be saved together or we shall be damned together."

The most important issue if the Consecration is done or not is being promoted as done, based on a bogus letter from 1989!!!
Is this really good enough?

 

Answer - good!

I've been contributing to this thread which I found interesting, with some of Kevin Symonds contributions being particularly helpful for me. Quite what has been going on on a separate thread I really don't know but I think he is being wrongly characterized in many of the comments made about him.

It was Kevin's posts which made me aware of the extremely important book about Sister Lucia, coming from Sister Lucia's convent and published by the WAF. The World Apostolate of Fatima is a great promoter of Fatima and its message and it is significant that the Cumbria nuns chose them to publish the new book. People on this forum don't know about it because they prefer to read the more exciting and dramatic revelations that come from Fr Gruner's group of Fatima supporters like Christopher Ferrara. I am also interested by much of what Mr Ferrara writes but I believe he and the group have made many mistakes. Kevin Symonds knew more than most on everything connected with Fatima so it is unfortunate he has been driven away although I think his manner of speaking was always going to lead that way.

 

We must be in the End Times, David. I find I agree with you.
I doubt Kevin's detractors are used to having their statements critically examined; they apparently found that too uncomfortable and attacked the messenger. Kevin did his best to stick to facts and church teachings. He avoided personal animus. I respect his knowledge and professionalism.

 

You also can't lose your sense of humor. Personally, I laughed at several of crewdogs and Mac's posts. We have a few smart***' in the building that's all. What can you expect putting every type of personality together in one place?

 

Dear Quis,
I don't blame you a bit. Things are rather muddled, for sure. But the trigger for the rather ragged departure still was what an HR person would call a "hostile environment."

 

I would say that the Fatima Crusade apostolate has more fully emphasized that devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary is lacking in Russia. The Russian Orthodox Church do not take as dogma that the Virgin Mary was Immaculately Conceived. Therefore, how can the Immaculate Heart of Mary triumph in Russia when there is so little understanding of her (the dogma of the Immaculate Conception) by the state sanctioned church? This critical aspect of the Fatima message (the time has come when the Lord wishes to establish devotion to my Immaculate Heart) has yet to come to fruition in Russia. It would probably happen much faster if the Bishops in union with the Pope would consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

 

Isn't that what all the controversy is about? Sr. Lucia is reported to have said that Heaven was satisfied with the consecration by Pope John Paul 11, and some people say that Sr. Lucia either didn't say that or that she was told to say it. I don't believe that Sr. Lucia would misrepresent Our Lady no matter who ordered her to do so.

I don't think that we can discount the sudden fall of the Soviet Union so soon after the consecration. There was no timeline to the promise of Russia's conversion or peace in the world. Perhaps we are being presumptuous expecting a sudden conversion. Heaven waited decades for the consecration yet we expect an overnight conversion rather than a gradual process which has started with the majority of Russians rediscovering their Orthodox faith.

 

Just a tiny clarification....the message wasn't directed to the Soviet Union but to Russia specifically. Russia existed before, during and after the demise of the Soviet Union. The beginning of that 100 years given to Satan began in Russia with the Red Dragon of Atheistic Communism and now is to end, hopefully and finally, "but late" also through the vehicle of Russia's conversion. I expect, what with the times shortening, that that process will occur surprisingly fast. And, btw, it certainly wasn't heaven's intention to wait for almost 100 years....it was to give us great blessings and graces as soon as possible and when that didn't happen since the Church has been extremely neglectful in simply doing what was asked, the entire world has suffered almost unbelievably until God is adored according to His Divine Will. And previous promises and graces were given in large scores almost immediately when our Lady's requests were responded to....THE great example of that being Guadalupe.

 

The priest to whom the Virgin Mary gave contemporary messages about the Church and the fulfilment of the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart was Father Stefano Gobbi (R.I.P.) You may imagine that Our Lady would entrust messages to a priest because as Mother of the Church, she wants the Church to be the spotless bride of Christ. Anyway, Our Lady talked of the March 25, 1984 consecration in a locution to Father Gobbi and after that May 13, 1987, June 10, 1987 and May 13, 1990 with regard to the consecration of Russia to her Immaculate Heart.

The locution to Father Gobbi of the Marian Movement of Priests for March 25, 1984 spoke extensively about consecration. The Virgin said, "…Yes, I myself manifested my wish at Fatima, when I appeared in 1917; …during these years I have insistently requested it… today I renew my request that all be consecrated to my Immaculate Heart. Before all I ask it of Pope John Paul II, the first of my beloved sons, who on the occasion of this feast, performed the consecration in a solemn manner, after writing to the bishops of the world and inviting them to do so in union with him. Unfortunately, the invitation was not welcomed by all the bishops; particular circumstances have not yet permitted the explicit consecration of Russia which I have requested many times. As I have already told you, this consecration will be made to me when the bloody events are well on the way to actuality. I bless this courageous act of my Pope in his wish to entrust the world and all the nations to my Immaculate Heart; I receive it with love and gratitude, and because of it I promise to intervene to shorten greatly the hours of the purification, and to lessen the gravity of the trial. But I ask this consecration also from all the bishops, from all the priests, from all religious, and from all the faithful. This is the hour in which the whole Church must assemble in the secure refuge of my Immaculate Heart."

Our Lady reiterated on May 13, 1987, "My request that Russia be consecrated to me, by the Pope together with all the bishops, has not been accepted and thus she has spread her errors in every part of the world." Pope John Paul II proclaimed that 1987 would be a Marian Year, a special year dedicated to the Virgin by which Catholics worldwide could say prayers and consecrate themselves. On June 10, 1987, Our Lady said, "It is my ardent motherly desire that during the Marian Year the work of my priestly Movement (Marian Movement of Priests) be officially welcomed with joy and recognized by the Church. It will moreover be particularly important for the development of the great events which have been foretold to you by me if, during this year, there be at last carried out my request, made to my daughter, Sister Lucia of Fatima, that Russia be consecrated to me by the Pope together with all the bishops of the world." It didn’t happen.

On May 13, 1990 the Blessed Mother told Father Gobbi, "Russia has not been consecrated to me by the Pope together with all the bishops and thus she has not received the grace of conversion and has spread her errors throughout all parts of the world, provoking wars, violence, bloody revolutions and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father."

Although Russia was not explicitly consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, the Soviet Union fell and more rights were returned to millions of people who grew up with communism. Father Gobbi traveled extensively all over the world holding cenacles with hundreds of priests and thousands of lay people. Thousands and thousands of priests and faithful Catholics consecrated themselves to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. One by one, priests and people consecrated themselves to the Virgin to shelter themselves in Her Immaculate Heart as the march to the triumph continues.

 

Father Gruner Attacked - Chris Ferrara Responds - 1 of 3
02/08/16 22:39

A Reply to Joanna Bogle Respecting the Third Secret of Fatima

Part I: Post-conciliar correctness versus the truth about Fatimaby Christopher A. Ferrara
August 1, 2015
The respected English Catholic journalist Joanna Bogle is an intelligent woman and an accomplished writer whose objectivity concerning the crisis in the Church, however, is hampered by an ideological commitment to post-conciliar correctness. An indefatigable defender of whatever the post-conciliar "regime of novelty" has officially approved, even though the post-conciliar "reforms" have produced nothing but decline and corruption in the Church, Bogle's blinkered view of the ecclesial scene does not allow her to recognize the seriousness of traditionalist objections to what Cardinal Ratzinger so rightly described as "a continuing process of decay" since the Council. Her response to these objections is that of an ideologue: demagogy and character assassination.

Rather than engaging traditionalists on the merits of their contentions, Bogle caricatures what they are saying so as to elicit a chorus of hissing and booing from the grandstand before which she indignantly struts back and forth, exhorting her audience to fear and loathing at the Catholic Herald and elsewhere. I am sure she and her public find this approach emotionally satisfying, but it fails to meet the standards of rational discourse, still less rational Catholic discourse. When dealing with the positions taken by traditionalist commentators on the state of the Church today and the reasons for it, the otherwise sober Bogle comes off as little more than a literary harridan.

And so it is with her approach to the traditionalist contention that the Vatican has not been entirely forthcoming regarding publication of the Third Secret of Fatima and that there must be a text in which the Virgin Herself explains the meaning of the vision published on June 26, 2000, wherein we see a future Pope, members of the hierarchy and laity being executed by soldiers on a hill outside a devastated city filled with corpses.

Not just traditionalists, but Catholics the world over find incredible the Vatican's contention that the vision standing alone is all there is to the Third Secret and that for its "interpretation" we must look to none other than the former Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Angelo Sodano, whose "interpretation" is cited no fewer than four times in the Vatican's "official" (but non-binding) commentary on the vision. According to Sodano, the Secret concerns nothing more than 20th-century events culminating in the failed attempt on the life of John Paul II in 1981. A Pope escaping death at the hands of a lone assassin in 1981 cannot possibly correspond to the vision of a Pope being executed along with clergy and laity on a hill outside a devastated city. Sodano's "interpretation" is a clumsy contrivance that bespeaks an attempt to obscure rather than reveal the truth.

For Bogle, however, it's all very simple. We must believe Sodano. The idea that the Mother of God must have explained the vision Herself is just the feverish dream of a few crackpots to be ridiculed and reviled. In full caricature mode, she writesin the Catholic Herald that "Fatimists" contend that "St John Paul and the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger lied in 2000 when the Third Secret was published," that they are "sinister characters" and that "Pope Emeritus" Benedict XVI "is a virtual prisoner; a double is sometimes presented to the public in his place; he has been hypnotised; he is actually now talking in a sort of code; they are putting drugs in his tea."

Please. Either Bogle is profoundly ignorant of this subject or deeply dishonest in her discussion of it. None of the serious, carefully researched sources on this controversy advance such laughable contentions. A brief and necessarily partial review of the evidence, more fully summarized here and here, is thus in order by way of response to Bogle's crude agitprop. That will be subject of the next two columns in this series.

At the outset, however, it must be said that the most likely explanation for the suppression of the explanatory text is not that John Paul and Benedict "lied." In fact, they never made any positive representations on the matter and never imposed Sodano's preposterous "interpretation" on the Church. Rather, as the Catholic public intellectual and commentator Antonio Socci maintains, the two pontiffs considered themselves governed by a prudential judgment during the pontificate of John XXIII: that the suppressed text cannot be an authentic revelation by the Virgin and that it reflects only Sister Lucia's personal impressions.

Indeed, the Vatican's commentary on the vision suspiciously avoided Sister Lucia's more complete Fourth Memoir recording the integral Message of Fatima. There we read what would appear to be the beginning of the Virgin's explanation of the vision: "In Portugal, the dogma of the faith will always be preserved, etc." Lucia added the "etc." to indicate the Virgin's further words concerning what would logically be a prophecy of a grave dogmatic crisis in the Church outside of Portugal.

In a blatant attempt to evade the profound implications of the Virgin's reference to Portugal and the dogma of the Faith, the Vatican relied on the Third Memoir instead of the more complete Fourth, dismissing the reference as "some annotations that were added in the Fourth Memoir" and consigning the Virgin's words to a footnote. There we have it: the very words of the Virgin, obviously continuing her prophecy, are reduced to "annotations" deemed extrinsic to the Secret. Therefore they need not be published.

In the next two columns I will indicate some of the major grounds for the reasonable belief, held commonly by well-informed Catholics, that Sister Lucia's "annotations" belong to a suppressed explanatory text that must exist in which the Mother of God continues to speak on the subject She introduces with the momentous reference to Portugal and the dogma of the Faith that the Vatican buried in a footnote in the hope Her words would be forgotten.First posted at: http://fatimaperspectives.com/ts/perspective878.aspStay tuned for parts 2 & 3 this week...

http://www.cfnews.org/page88/files/d2a3104f902f9cb47396968393457d35-619.html