This part of your post, Joe, resonates with me except that I am equally concerned about being wrong as being hypocritical because I have serious reservations about Pope Francis. Sometimes I think "yes, I get that" but more times I think "what a hypocrite". Maybe I'm the hypocrite. Sometimes I think about a prophet not being recognised in his own country and I wonder whether my reservations about the Pope are along those lines. I just can't get over the contradiction in Church teaching on marriage and the harsh words for anyone who isn't on board with it; the disdainful attitude towards Catholics who are simply doing their best to live the Gospel; the harsh treatment of Cardinal Burke while inviting Cardinal Daneels of all people to a Synod on the family; and treating us like we came down in the last shower by quoting either Pope John Paul 11 or Pope Benedict before doing or saying something that changes the meaning of what he has quoted. Like I said, maybe I'm the hypocrite because I'm most likely the least devout or holy person on this forum. I hope and pray that I'm wrong about the Pope, and I have never in my life wished more to be wrong about anything. Incidentally, I was appalled reading the treatment he received at the hands of his Jesuit Order. Isolating a person and preventing his supporters from speaking to him is a dreadful example of bullying whether or not he deserved to be disciplined. Since we don't know all the facts about what really was going on in the Order, we are in no position to decide who was right or wrong. All sorts of things went wrong in some religious communities, in some cases abuse was covered up because people were afraid to speak out while in other cases there were members of religious communities whose view of social justice wasn't exactly Christ centred. Since we don't have all the facts, we can't have an informed opinion so it's best to leave it alone.
Hi De Gaulle. I cannot as you say "clear things up" for you or anyone. That is way above my pay scale. I have never believed in your obedient automatons. My consideration of Pope Francis finds focus through the lens of the faith and confidence that I have been given. I can see him in no other light. I am sure Pope Francis has his faults and failings just like the rest of us but whatever they are I choose not to seek or find fault with him because whatever his shortcomings are, in my vision, they do me no harm and I do not believe they present a threat to our Faith. Sorry to disappoint you De Gaulle. But as promised. "Seek and you will find". It depends what you are looking for and where you are looking. Now where did I put my glasses
I was I was Jesuit educated. I received an apology of sorts some years from an old teacher for their cruelty. Perhaps it was not a full admission of guilt because of his fear of litigation. I had mentioned suing them for nerve damage that had resulted from their cruelty as they had been sued by a doctor in Sydney. I have no illusions about their failings. Even St Ignatius was not deemed to be too agreeable in his personality. Edit: BTW that doctor was awarded 2.5 million which I think was vastly excessive. The damage he suffered was nothing compared to what was doled out to us every week. He sued on the basis of two little punishments in his whole life at school.
Of course it's above your payscale, Joe. Even God Himself cannot reconcile self-contradicting statements. He cannot simultaneously say that two plus two is four and two plus two isn't four, if my understanding is correct.
Please elaborate...unless you're just quoting Tele Savalas, of course. You're surely not asserting God can contradict Himself, or else you have misdirected my reference?
Sorry to be short but I am snowed under with work. There was only one if in your comment. I was simply saying that the value of your belief depends on your understanding and appreciation. Not of that maths problem but of the panorama that Pope Francis presents. I do not believe Pope Francis contradicts himself in either his intention or his meaning. It all depends on how he is taken. It seems impossible for those who say they are confused to try to look through another set of glasses and acknowledge the truth and purity in his words and in his ways. Have to get back to work now. I do not care what people think of me. I only care what I think of them. I have found. They are searching. God bless them. Edit: Of course I have contradicted myself in the course of this exchange - one minute I am saying I hate criticism and the next I am saying I don't care what people think about me. But I know what I mean!
You are very charitable and humble Joe, myself and the Holy Father could both learn from your example before pointing our fingers too harshly at others. Perhaps the Holy Father a tad more than my good self. I ahve a feeling if it came to fight he would floor me with that temper of his. There maybe a bit of Irish in the mix there somewhere. Maybe a MacBergoglio? You are blessed to have such a sunny and calm disposition youself.
Sunny and calm! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha but thanks for the kind words and the great crack. I am, however, getting better
Must be the Jesuit education coming out in you. There have been times where I have scratched my head at what I see as the Pope contradicting himself while others have waxed lyrical about his "Jesuit spirituality". Maybe the Jesuits should start running courses to help save the rest of us from our invincible ignorance.
"... Pope Francis is fast running out of defenders anywhere outside of the liberal Left, the Hollwood elite, the Democratic Party and the radical progressivists inside the Church. Anyone claiming to be Catholic and still making excuses for this disastrous pontificate is either malicious or downright stupid." http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/ind...exhortation-must-cause-jesus-and-mary-to-weep
Thanks so much!! It's wonderful how the Holy Spirit works! Someone sent me a little nudge last night to read Pope Benedicts Encyclical, 'Charity and Truth', which I have never read before. I am so looking forward to it. Food for a starving man, drink for the thirsty. Isn't it wonderful how the Holy Spirit supplies our needs through others?
http://w2.vatican.va/content/benedi...ben-xvi_enc_20090629_caritas-in-veritate.html 'I am aware of the ways in which charity has been and continues to be misconstrued and emptied of meaning, with the consequent risk of being misinterpreted, detached from ethical living and, in any event, undervalued. In the social, juridical, cultural, political and economic fields — the contexts, in other words, that are most exposed to this danger — it is easily dismissed as irrelevant for interpreting and giving direction to moral responsibility. Hence the need to link charity with truth not only in the sequence, pointed out by Saint Paul, of veritas in caritate (Eph 4:15), but also in the inverse and complementary sequence of caritas in veritate. Truth needs to be sought, found and expressed within the “economy” of charity, but charity in its turn needs to be understood, confirmed and practised in the light of truth. In this way, not only do we do a service to charity enlightened by truth, but we also help give credibility to truth, demonstrating its persuasive and authenticating power in the practical setting of social living. This is a matter of no small account today, in a social and cultural context which relativizes truth, often paying little heed to it and showing increasing reluctance to acknowledge its existence.'
Not at all, Joe. It's because I like you and see you striving for holiness and truth that I get upset. I hate seeing otherwise good and decent people being deceived, and I have to believe that because you strive for orthodoxy because of your Faith that your eyes will be opened to the crisis. I was where you are early in this pontificate. We all have different triggers and different speeds at which the scales fall from our eyes because of our natural tendency to defend everything a pope says and does. But at some point our love for the Truth trumps our tendency to defend the papacy. It's a hard thing to face up to, but faithful Grace filled Catholics must get to that point eventually.
Normally when listening to a Catholic whose life is as precarious as yours I give special attention to his words. I don't know about last words in American courts but in Britain they held the same status under law as an oath. You have my attention Brian but for all the wrong reasons. I understand perfectly well what Pope Francis is saying and what he is trying to accomplish. I have witnessed to his purpose and his means many times. My witness comtinues to be rejected and dismissed. I have shaken your dust from my sandals, put them on again and knocked on your door time and again. My vision of Francis is diametrically opposed to yours and I am certain so is that of Benedict Emeritus no matter what spin you wish to put on it. Aviso knows I comment here so he will see this. Only his level of opposition to Francis sickens me more than yours. I have prayed for a Damascus moment to be visited on him and quickly. He refused to publish my last two comments so vehement is his opposition. The only reason I now visit his site is to quickly check if he has turned. I discern without doubt a spirit of schism and rebellion there. A spirit of insanity. Those who the Gods wish to destroy they first make mad. Your quote from remnant newspaper resorts to such tactics but they are only truly effective in the hands of God as He brings us to the full realisation that cut off from Him and outside of His Church we are lost forever and given over to eternal pain and misery of unimaginable intensity. At His hands we can still be rescued but when we take matters into our own hands putting ourselves above The authority established by His Word Made Flesh we do not have a snowballs chance in hell. When we refuse to look for the good in His Visible Representative we put ourselves under the power of the evil one. And he does not care one iota about our well being or whether we are right or wrong. All he cares about is himself and dragging us down to hell to give himself at least the satisfaction that has been denied to Our Heavenly Father: the satisfaction of a soul saved by the living sacrifice of His Son crucified. I can only pray that all here who doubt and oppose Francis will also, like Aviso, experience that Damascus moment when the voice of God will pierce and break your hearts with the words "Brian, Brian why do you persecute Me?" That he may blind you to your old vision and make all things new in your vision of Francis. That He will give you a fresh understanding and a mind thats back in touch with reality and restored to sanity. I can almost hear you dismissing all this as so much emotional nonsense with no source and no reason. I would not be surprised if Padraig like Aviso refused to publish it. I hope you will be ok. I have to go. Please excuse mistakes. No time to revise what I have written.
Good try Brian but my faith is far more simple: yes and no. There are no grey areas but simply areas that grow in clarity and charity. For a long time I have discerned a sickness on this site that runs through its threads. I cannot name it but it will be revealed and expelled. Unlike your Emeth I am subject only to Christ and the Truth that is God incarnate and I am glad I am not with those who, deceived, denounce and deny the goodness of Our Holy Father. I will continue to sit at the back of he church, a sinner in deep need of God's mercy and pray for those in the same boat. One day they will see this boat as the barque of Peter and realise what a fine captain we had in Francis just as we see now what a fine captain we had in Benedict. I hope and pray you will be ok.
