Divine Will revisited.

Jackie.... Jackie.... you have said exactly what is on my heart. I'm going to write about this on my blog.

"Unless you become like a child, you can not enter the Kingdom..."

 

Matthew 24:35 "Heaven and earth will pass away (disappear) but my word will not pass away."
It seems to me from this revelation that the earth and the skies that God created will come to and end: they will pass away. The new heaven and the new earth - the place where man will dwell- will be the kingdom of God where there are many mansions and where every tear will be wiped away.

 

Bill,

I'm sorry, but you seem to have come down with a terrible case of selective reading, because we have time and again, using the words of the Church, contradicted your own mysterious conclusion.

I'm going to be blunt: there's a big problem here. And that's because there is a veritable wave of approved and credible prophecy in the Church today that speaks clearly of a time of trials, tribulations, and antichrist followed by an Era of Peace before the last upheaval. A simple child can see that this is clearly enunciated in Rev 19-20. The mental gymnastics and spiritual acrobatics going on here in order to "re-interpret" the plain text of Revelation not only departs from the unanimous voice of the Early Church, but contradicts what bishops around the world are approving in these prophetic revelations and that the Popes are stating unambiguously. In that regard, there is a deadly silence from the opponents of the Era of Peace, because they are being forced to declare the Church Fathers heretics, and all these visionaries and seers, some on the road to canonization, as "false prophets." Moreover, they find themselves contradicting, distorting, and reinterpreting the Popes themselves in order to fit their subjective theories. You are suggesting that this Era of Peace is a departure from the authority of the Holy See. But as I read the Popes themselves, I wonder who exactly is fantasizing? I'm not going to sit here and patronize my brothers and sisters in Christ by explaining what the following quotations from the Chair of Peter mean; anyone who cannot read the clear meaning should log off, sit before the Blessed Sacrament, and begin to pray for wisdom in the face of this prophetic consensus that affirms Sacred Tradition and Scripture. Because time is so short, we should be shuddering...

I've fielded a lot of questions this past week. But in truth, it is those who reject the dual voice of God in prophecy and the Magisterium who have to explain themselves:

The mission of Christ the Redeemer, which is entrusted to the Church, is still very far from completion. As the second millennium after Christ’s coming draws to an end, an overall view of the human race shows that this mission is still only beginning and that we must commit ourselves wholeheartedly to its service. —POPE JOHN PAUL II, Redemptoris Mission, n. 1

There are regions of the world that are still awaiting a first evangelization; others that have received it, but need a deeper intervention; yet others in which the Gospel put down roots a long time ago, giving rise to a true Christian tradition but in which, in recent centuries—with complex dynamics—the secularization process has produced a serious crisis of the meaning of the Christian faith and of belonging to the Church. —POPE BENEDICT XVI, First Vespers of the Solemnity of Sts. Peter and Paul, June 28th, 2010

Empowered by the Spirit, and drawing upon faith’s rich vision, a new generation of Christians is being called to help build a world in which God’s gift of life is welcomed, respected and cherished—not rejected, feared as a threat, and destroyed. A new age in which love is not greedy or self-seeking, but pure, faithful and genuinely free, open to others, respectful of their dignity, seeking their good, radiating joy and beauty. A new age in which hope liberates us from the shallowness, apathy, and self-absorption which deaden our souls and poison our relationships. Dear young friends, the Lord is asking you to be prophets of this new age… —POPE BENEDICT XVI, Homily, World Youth Day, Sydney, Australia, July 20th, 2008

Oh! when in every city and village the law of the Lord is faithfully observed, when respect is shown for sacred things, when the Sacraments are frequented, and the ordinances of Christian life fulfilled, there will certainly be no more need for us to labor further to see all things restored in Christ… And then? Then, at last, it will be clear to all that the Church, such as it was instituted by Christ, must enjoy full and entire liberty and independence from all foreign dominion… All this, Venerable Brethren, We believe and expect with unshakable faith. —POPE PIUS X, E Supremi, Encyclical “On the Restoration of All Things”, n.14, 6-7

The Catholic Church, which is the kingdom of Christ on earth, [is] destined to be spread among all men and all nations… —POPE PIUS XI, Quas Primas, Encyclical, n. 12, Dec. 11th, 1925; cf. Matt 24:14

When it does arrive, it will turn out to be a solemn hour, one big with consequences not only for the restoration of the Kingdom of Christ, but for the pacification of… the world. We pray most fervently, and ask others likewise to pray for this much-desired pacification of society. —POPE PIUS XI, Ubi Arcani dei Consilioi “On the Peace of Christ in his Kingdom”, December 23, 1922

But even this night in the world shows clear signs of a dawn that will come, of a new day receiving the kiss of a new and more resplendent sun… A new resurrection of Jesus is necessary: a true resurrection, which admits no more lordship of death… In individuals, Christ must destroy the night of mortal sin with the dawn of grace regained. In families, the night of indifference and coolness must give way to the sun of love. In factories, in cities, in nations, in lands of misunderstanding and hatred the night must grow bright as the day, nox sicut dies illuminabitur, and strife will cease and there will be peace. Come Lord Jesus.... make our night as bright as the day... reign in [our] hearts... There are numerous signs that Thy return is not far off. —Pope Pius XII in his Urbi et Orbi, The Tablet, April 27th, 1957 as cited in Heralds of the Second Coming, p. 218-219

These African martyrs herald the dawn of a new age. If only the mind of man might be directed not toward persecutions and religious conflicts but toward a rebirth of Christianity and civilization! —Liturgy of the Hours, Vol. III, p. 1453, Memorial of Charles Lwanga and Companions

May there dawn for everyone the time of peace and freedom, the time of truth, of justice and of hope. —POPE JOHN PAUL II, Radio message, Vatican City, 1981

With a heart trustfully open to this vision of hope, I implore from the Lord an abundance of the Spirit’s gifts for the whole Church, so that the “springtime” of the Second Vatican Council can find in the new millennium its “summertime,” that is to say its full development. —POPE JOHN PAUL II, L’Osservatore Romano, English Edition, February 25th, 1998

The task of humble Pope John is to “prepare for the Lord a perfect people,” which is exactly like the task of the Baptist, who is his patron and from whom he takes his name. And it is not possible to imagine a higher and more precious perfection than that of the triumph of Christian peace, which is peace at heart, peace in the social order, in life, in well-being, in mutual respect, and in the brotherhood of nations.—POPE JOHN XXIII, True Christian Peace, December 23rd, 1959; www.catholicculture.org

The Church will be reduced in its dimensions, it will be necessary to start again. However, from this test a Church would emerge that will have been strengthened by the process of simplification it experienced, by its renewed capacity to look within itself… the Church will be numerically reduced. —Cardinal Ratzinger (POPE BENEDICT XVI), God and the World, 2001; Interview with Peter Seewald

 

Through your prayers and mine, it is possible to alleviate this tribulation, but it is no longer possible to avert it, because it is only in this way that the Church can be effectively renewed. How many times, indeed, has the renewal of the Church been effected in blood? This time, again, it will not be otherwise. —JOHN PAUL II, Regis Scanlon, Flood and Fire, Homiletic & Pastoral Review, April 1994

[John Paul II] does indeed cherish a great expectation that the millennium of divisions will be followed by a millennium of unifications… that all the catastrophes of our century, all its tears, as the Pope says, will be caught up at the end and turned into a new beginning. —Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (POPE BENEDICT XVI), Salt of the Earth, An Interview With Peter Seewald, p. 237

The young have shown themselves to be for Rome and for the Church a special gift of the Spirit of God… I did not hesitate to ask them to make a radical choice of faith and life and present them with a stupendous task: to become “morning watchmen” at the dawn of the new millennium. —POPE JOHN PAUL II, Novo Millennio Inuente, n.9

This nation, and the Europe which [Saint] Bede and his contemporaries helped to build, once again stands at the threshold of a new age. —POPE BENEDICT XVI, Address at Ecumenical Celebration, London, England; September 1th, 2010; Zenit.org

It will at length be possible that our many wounds be healed and all justice spring forth again with the hope of restored authority; that the splendors of peace be renewed, and the swords and arms drop from the hand and when all men shall acknowledge the empire of Christ and willingly obey His word, and every tongue shall confess that the Lord Jesus is in the Glory of the Father. —POPE LEO XIII, Consecration to the Sacred Heart, May 1899

…[the] pilgrimage of all of the People of God; and by its light even the other peoples can walk towards the Kingdom of justice, towards the Kingdom of peace. What a great day it will be, when the weapons will be dismantled in order to be transformed into instruments of work! And this is possible! We bet on hope, on the hope of peace, and it will be possible. —POPE FRANCIS, Sunday Angelus, December 1st, 2013; Catholic News Agency, Dec. 2nd, 2013

Humanity is in need of justice, of peace, love, and will have it only by returning with their whole heart to God, who is the source. —POPE FRANCIS, at the Sunday Angelus, Rome, February 22nd, 2015; Zenit.org

“And they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd.” May God… shortly bring to fulfillment His prophecy for transforming this consoling vision of the future into a present reality… It is God’s task to bring about this happy hour and to make it known to all… When it does arrive, it will turn out to be a solemn hour, one big with consequences not only for the restoration of the Kingdom of Christ, but for the pacification of… the world. We pray most fervently, and ask others likewise to pray for this much-desired pacification of society. —POPE PIUS XI, Ubi Arcani dei Consilioi “On the Peace of Christ in his Kingdom”, December 23, 1922

The unity of the world will be. The dignity of the human person shall be recognized not only formally but effectively. The inviolability of life, from the womb to old age… Undue social inequalities will be overcome. The relations between peoples will be peaceful, reasonable and fraternal. Neither selfishness, nor arrogance, nor poverty… [shall] prevent the establishment of a true human order, a common good, a new civilization. —POPE PAUL VI, Urbi et Orbi Message, April 4th, 1971

We are far from the so-called “end of history”, since the conditions for a sustainable and peaceful development have not yet been adequately articulated and realized. —POPE FRANCIS, Evangelii Gaudium, n. 59

We feel that we must disagree with those prophets of doom who are always forecasting disaster, as though the end of the world were at hand. In our times, divine Providence is leading us to a new order of human relations which, by human effort and even beyond all expectations, are directed to the fulfilment of God’s superior and inscrutable designs, in which everything, even human setbacks, leads to the greater good of the Church. —BLESSED JOHN XXIII, Address for the Opening of the Second Vatican Council, October 11th, 1962; 4, 2-4: AAS 54 (1962), 789

 

I don't know why people keep pushing this Millennialism. You can take selective quotes from Pope's to support your side (most of the quotes being out of context anyways), while those on the Amillennial side can take quotes of Popes, saints, etc to support their side (most of these quotes being IN context).

I see at least a few large reasons to reject Millennialism.

1) These millennialists keep appealing to private revelations-- but there's something that I often see missing from these discussions. The PURPOSE of private revelation. Private revelation doesn't give any NEW revelation, it only clarifies what already exists in Public Revelation. ALL Public Revelation was given to the Apostles. Private Revelation merely confirms and clarifies what Jesus already taught the Apostles.

Even if a Marian apparition to the Pope were witnessed by the entire world on Television, with billions of homosexual atheists being magically converted instantly on the spot-- if this Private Revelation gave NEW information, then that information remains theologically meaningless. The Private Revelation can only confirm or clarify what already exists in Public Revelation.

And what do we see clearly within the Public Revelation regarding the Era of Peace and Second Coming?

We see Paul believing that Jesus was returning at any moment. If the 1,000 year Era of Peace was to come BEFORE the anti-Christ and Second Coming, then Paul shouldn't have been expecting Christ to return imminently. The same thing applies to the rest of the early Christians of the first 2 centuries, who all expected Christ to return at any moment. Shouldn't the Apostles have told them that the Second Coming wasn't occurring for at least another 1,000 years? Why were they all looking for the anti-Christ? Shouldn't the Apostles have told them that can't happen for at least another 1,000 years?

It seems the Apostles were unaware of the theology of these Private Revelations. And if your private revelation doesn't confirm what already exists in the Public Revelation, your private revelation is false. Even if it's coming from the mouth of a saint.

2) As a Catholic of Jewish descent, I find the idea of a 1,000 year Era of Peace in the world to be absolutely horrifying. We know, dogmatically, that the Jews will not convert until after the 'Full Number of the Gentiles' has come into the Church, right before the Second Coming of Christ. So for the majority of this 1,000 year Era of Peace, when the entire world is converted, Satan and the demons can't tempt the Jews into false beliefs, etc; these Jews STILL won't convert until the END of that period. That is absolutely horrifying. There's NO WAY these people could be invincibly ignorant. If these people would be Invincibly Ignorant, then I'm sorry, absolutely EVERYONE must be invincibly ignorant.

This Era of Peace will be worse for us Jews than the holocaust. At least when Jews died in the holocaust they could have been invincibly ignorant and still be saved. But during the Era of Peace, when Satan has no real power, practically the whole world comes into the Church, the evidence for God's existence and the Catholic faith is so overwhelming, and we Jews STILL don't convert for almost 1,000 years... wow. That's horrific. Absolutely horrific.

 

Mark,
Your quotes as usual are a mishmash of things sort of relevant and totally unrelevant. In fact I am sorry to say you showed your ignorace with the quote of Pope Francis about the "end of history" because that is a direct reference to the political/philosophical concept of Francis Fukuyama. Its nothing to do with catholic eschatology. Never mind we all make mistakes.
No one has suggested the second coming is about to happen next year; so your quotes about evangelization are irrelevant. In fact Pope Paul VI and John Paul II both stated that evangelization had reached all corners of the earth. Of course in the Pius XII quote you typically omitted the passage "come Lord Jesus there are numerous signs thy return is not far off"
For all your generalized papal quotes that are simply appeals to peace in the world or evangelization, there are plenty that show a direct contradition to your errors. Cardinal Ratzinger in salt of the Earth stated that we cannot rule out the possibility that we are facing the final apocalype. John Paul II told the youth in 1985 that these tribulations are the birth pangs to a new world- to the establishment of the eternal Kingdom of Christ.In fact if you read Stephen Walford's Heralds of the Second Coming; with a foreword by the Cardinal who is a member of Fr Gobbi's MMP and formerly very high up in the vatican (close to John Paul II and Benedict XV)I there is all the evidence you need to see precisely what the popes have taught about the approaching second coming. Noticeable that it contained an imprimatur and the endorsements of world renowned theologians.
John Paul told the congregation at the Divine Mercy basilica in Poland that from there must go the "spark to prepare the world for the Lord's final coming" -not your version of st Bernard's middle coming, but the real one. He told the youth to be watchmen of the return in glory of Jesus (remember what the Compendium of the catechism says about that -its the final coming) Oh and by the way, with the latest approved apparition announced yesterday in San Nicolas Argentina, we have a new approved message stating "the coming of the Lord is imminent" Our Lady went on to say about nobody know the day or hour -so yes she has talked about the nearness of the final coming at the end of the world there, the same message to St Faustina, to the visionary in Rwanda who is now a nun, You get the picture Mark. at all the approved ones-Fatima included (the popes Pius XII, John Paul II and Benedict XVI all said the message was prepare for the coming of the kingdom) and in Brazil with references to the second coming, Mary is doing what St Louis de Montfort predicted: preparing the world for the return of her Son to judge the living and the dead.No mention in any approved ones of a termporal kingdom to come; no explanations that differ in the meaning of the second coming (because of course if she did, the Bishops would never have approved them anyway). No Mark you are barking up the wrong tree I am afraid. You are still yet to provide a single approved apparition that states rev 20 is about to be fulfilled with a termporal era of peace. There isnt one. You have yet to explain why liberation theology is a form of millenarianism when it lays no claim to Rev 20 or a manifestation of Jesus in the flesh for a thousand years

 

Hi KP1983,
Welcome aboard. Of course you have brough forth the question that is unanswerable to the millenarians. Its like a jigsaw with pieces that wont ever fit. But will they ever learn?

 

Mark another question for you.
If Lactantius is so important for the times we live in, and I am thinking of Fr Ianuzzi's praise of him giving the greatest exposition on the spiritual millenium to come, why did Pope Benedict ignore him completely in his series of general audiences on the Church Fathers in 2007/8 and why did he devote 5 (FIVE) general audiences to St Augustine. What does that tell you?
Does it tell you that Pope Benedict maintains in his magisterium that Lactantius got it wrong and that the first resurrection is baptism as Augustine taught and Benedict taught in his Ash Wednesday homily? Of course you did kindly tell us that Pope Benedict words were confusing.!!

 

Just a friendly reminder that it has now officially been five pages of posts since I requested:

And, of course, this request remains unfulfilled.

 

Please dont speak untruths. As yet no writings of Luisa Piccareat are approved. An imprimatur is not a form of approval. I am sure you really know that as every catholic book dealing with revelations is meant to state under the imprimatur that it in no way means the bishop approves with what is written. Why even bother trying to claim that even my neighbour's cat knows that. Of course it doesnt imply the Antichrist has come and gone. For those faithful to the teachings of the Church he comes at the end of the world when Jesus defeats him at the second coming. Have you read St. Paul or the Catechism for that matter? Its all explained clear as day in there.

 

For those with the eyes of faith and belief in the authority of the Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith to teach on such matters, the issue was dealt with in 1995 and restated in 2007. The magisterium has said hrough various popes that satan and evil will remain until the end of the world. Jesus said it in the parable of the wheat and weeds. Its so simple to understand Danny.

 

Let's see the quote from the Magisterium, Bill.

 

Yes, it is a form of approval. As was the declaration, of the Church-appointed theologians tasked with analyzing every page of her writings, that they are entirely free from any contradiction with Catholic teaching. As was the canonization of St. Hannibal, who dedicated his life to promoting and defending her writings. The list goes on and on.

 

No it is not. Theologians do not approve private revelations. Popes, Bishops and and the CDF have authority to do that. Sorry but you are greatly mistaken.

 

Weve all seen it Danny.Its on the vatican website. It says the idea of the Antichrist coming soon to be followed by an era of peace is a doctrinal error. What exactly dont you understand about that? It doesnt say Mrs Ryden understanding of it, its just an era of peace involving universal prosperity.

 

Feel free to search every letter of every Magisterial document ever written and no where will you find the words "the idea of the Antichrist coming soon to be followed by an era of peace is a doctrinal error."

Try again.

 

Yes, it is a form of approval (of the contents, without necessarily approving the apparition itself). It is an indication that the BISHOP (in Luisa's case) who offered it believed it to be free of doctrinal error.

 

I dont need to. Its on the CDF's part of the vatican website under the heading of doctrinal documents. You know why its there? So faithful catholics can go there and see for themselves that yes the Church has spoken on this issue and a termporal era of peace before the final coming of Jesus is a doctrinal error. Fact Fact Fact

 

Dear thread readers: Bill here insists that everybody take his word for it that "a temporal era of peace... is a doctrinal error," while refusing to even present this alleged Magisterium.

I hope that is very telling to everyone here seeking the truth.

 

No. Sorry, if you use the word approval in relation to a private revelation you are suggesting its authenticated as coming from a heavenly source. I am sure you knwo that anyway.