Approved apparitions in the Amazon!

I just looked up the Gospel for that day: Matthew 16: 24-28

q Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself,* take up his cross, and follow me.r For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.**s For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father’s glory, and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct.* Amen, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

 

In fact, the whole liturgy for that day is ominous:


Friday of the Eighteenth Week in Ordinary Time
Lectionary: 411
NA 2:1, 3; 3:1-3, 6-7[/paste:font]
See, upon the mountains there advances
the bearer of good news,
announcing peace!
Celebrate your feasts, O Judah,
fulfill your vows!
For nevermore shall you be invaded
by the scoundrel; he is completely destroyed.
The LORD will restore the vine of Jacob,
the pride of Israel,
Though ravagers have ravaged them
and ruined the tendrils.

Woe to the bloody city, all lies,
full of plunder, whose looting never stops!
The crack of the whip, the rumbling sounds of wheels;
horses a-gallop, chariots bounding,
Cavalry charging, the flame of the sword, the flash of the spear,
the many slain, the heaping corpses,
the endless bodies to stumble upon!
I will cast filth upon you,
disgrace you and put you to shame;
Till everyone who sees you runs from you, saying,
“Nineveh is destroyed; who can pity her?
Where can one find any to console her?”
Responsorial PsalmDT 32:35CD-36AB, 39ABCD, 41
R. (39c) It is I who deal death and give life.
Close at hand is the day of their disaster,
and their doom is rushing upon them!
Surely, the LORD shall do justice for his people;
on his servants he shall have pity.
R. It is I who deal death and give life.
“Learn then that I, I alone, am God,
and there is no god besides me.
It is I who bring both death and life,
I who inflict wounds and heal them.”
R. It is I who deal death and give life.
I will sharpen my flashing sword,
and my hand shall lay hold of my quiver,
“With vengeance I will repay my foes
and requite those who hate me.”
R. It is I who deal death and give life.
AlleluiaMT 5:10
R. Alleluia, alleluia.
Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness;
for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven.
R. Alleluia, alleluia.

 

The only thing that is promised for Aug 5th is Our Lady is returning on that day, nothing else. She states that something will happen very soon but not on Aug 5th. If you go back to an older message it states that something will happen on a quiet day, it sounds like a Sunday or some other holy day. Not certain about this. All I know is soon can be years. (Imminent has been decades, I am not trying to be disrespectful).

PS - My above statement is mainly due to the fact that I pray that nothing bad happens at the Olympic Games.

 

We really need to be getting our Spiritual Marching Boots on. It is alright understanding but we need to be a doing.

Not much time left.

Prayer, penance, fasting

 

The difference between tribulation and God's own wrath is the difference between The Tribulation and The Chastisement as prophesied at Garabandal. One results directly from the reactions of Man the other directly from the reactions of God. As for approval and authentication we know the words of Paul VI as far as Garabandal is concerned. He said unequivocally that in Garabandal we had the second sojourn of Mary on earth. In other words, like Padre Pio he said that Mary really did appear there. He was restricted only in respect for the chain of command which on one occasion he broke for the sake of truth. It amazes me that not more people know about and give full credence to Garabandal but I know I have no right to demand belief, nor should I insist that others believe. I just hope they will come to believe before it is too late to comply effectively with the messages. The Pope said the story must be told. No other contemporary vision has enjoyed such approbation. Not even Brazil. How clear is that! I feel like saying "Forget everything else - live the messages of Garabandal- keep it simple- trust in Mary."

 

+
March 18th was promised to be a day of great significance for the Church (at Medjugorje.

 

Why am I obsessed with the idea that the events of Garabandal be received as given. Only in Garabandal do we see contradictions like "The seers did not really mean what they said or what they said can be taken this way or that way" or that "such and such a way is a better way to see what they meant etc etc." Of course people are entitled to their opinion but no one has contradicted with authority the words of Pope Paul VI. If people just accepted what has been given as given then they will be ready to accept what has been offered as offered. If faith in Garabandal is weakened by distractions of many other claimed visions that have never enjoyed the verifiable approval or declared support such as that of a Pope or Saint then when the prophesied events of Garabandal come to pass faith their origin may be obscured and so the benefits accruable may be lost. For instance when Conchita gives 8 days notice of the Miracle the promised conversion that will accompany it may be compromised by doubt or ignorance or confusion. Many who are sick, for instance, may lose the opportunity of a cure and this witness of truth will in itself be lost. The devil is not in the detail but in the distortion of detail. It is truth that is in the detail and the detail of truth will set us free. The detail makes recognisable that which needs recognition just like we can be differentiated by our finger prints or eye patterns. If those details are distorted identification is lost. I just hope souls are not lost through obfuscation and a myriad of diversions from true witness.

 

Joe, I have some sympathy with what you are trying to express here on this thread. Because of the language problem, it is very difficult to make a good discernment on Edson Glauber and his messages but I'm sorry to say that I find myself increasingly negative about his current experiences. I say 'I'm sorry' because it means I'm discerning things differently from Peter but I increasingly view the Itapiranga events as, yes, a distraction, but worse, I feel they could lead to a serious rejection of contemporary private revelation if or when it emerges they are not authentic.

But I am replying here more specifically to ask you why you distinguish the Garabandal apparitions from Medjugorje. I believe totally in both apparitions and I don't see much of substantive difference in the Church's attitude to either. Pope Paul VI spoke positively about Garabandal while many of the local hierarchy were negative. But Pope John Paul spoke positively about Medjugorje while the local hierarchy remain negative. A very similar situation for both in my view. How do you see things differently?

 

Hi David
It's 10.30 at night here in N Z. Past my bed time. I have just deleted a lengthy response to you question. After writing it I said my rosary and half way through it I was moved to delete. There is an old saying "Less said, easier mended." I should apply this more to my life. Another old saying is "Give credit where credit is due." I place my faith where I believe it is due. I just wish a decision would be released quickly. I suppose he is still working out how to minimise collateral damage, both secular and clerical. I suppose timing and manner will be important considerations. Conditions for which we lesser mortals are not privy. Sorry for the abridged version but for now I have decided to keep my counsel to myself.

 

Concerning the future of Edson Glauber and Itapiranga, history alone will tell, of course, and it always remains logically possible that new information could emerge which would lead to a reversal of Church approval, but I cannot think of any historical examples in which such approval was subsequently rescinded (admittedly there can always be a first time).

Here I feel compelled for the benefit of those new to this thread to state the position of the Church with regard to Itapiranga as precisely as possible. There are four documents that need consideration:

i) Bishop Carillo Gritti's statement of May 31, 2009, widely divulged on the internet, notably by Michael Brown's SpiritDaily and www.miraclehunter.com, that on reflection he considered the 1994-1998 Itapiranga apparitions 'supernatural' in origin. Here some nuance is required with regard to the source situation; this statement appeared in the Portuguese and Italian edition of the Itapiranga messages in the form of a Nihil Obstat Quominus Imprimatur declaration with the seal of the diocese of Itacoatiara, but no photostat of the original is currently available, and the document is not referred to at all by the official Itapiranga website. While its authenticity has not to my knowledge been denied, my sense is that it may have been withdrawn from circulation, possibly because the statement also gave a formal blessing to the organization 'Legio Cordium Sacrorum' created in 2000, whose founder André Facchini is currently facing sexual abuse charges in Italy... It should be emphasized that this sad case is not necessarily a reflection of any sort on Bishop Gritti or Itapiranga in general, any more than the behaviour of Tomislav Vlasic reflects on the visionaries of Medjugorje.

The remaining three documents, on the other hand, all dating from 2010, can readily be viewed and constitute unambiguous evidence not only of Bishop Gritti's belief in the authenticity of the Itapiranga apparitions but also his personal support for Edson Glauber and his messages (as of 2010).

ii) Decree on religious ceremonies and pilgrimages, 31 January 2010 (Decreto do Culto )

"Since 1994, many Catholics have been making pilgrimages to Itapiranga to the place known as the 'Sanctuary' in order to venerate the Virgin Mary. These pilgrimages and visits have given and are giving many fruits of grace. Without falling into the temptation of sensationalism and fanatism, they are developing among the people of God a spirit of prayer and renewing and strengthening the faith of the pilgrims.
Having studied the events attentively, I authorize these pilgrimages and public ceremonies celebrated in the chapel or on the site in order to invoke Our Lady under the title of the Queen of the Rosary and of Peace. All events of public worship, such as the Holy Mass, Confessions, will be under the pastoral responsibility of the priest indicated.
This decree concerning religious ceremonies (culto) intends to favour the spiritual life of the people of God who come here in order to honour the apparitions of Our Lady which gave rise to this devotion in this place.
Finally, after initial discernment carried out by a group of persons chosen by me, from this year on a Commission chosen and established by me will be continuing to follow and analyze the facts and events which have occurred here and are still occurring, collecting all the necessary medical and theological information, together with testimonies and final objective elements for a fair and correct judgment on the events which have occurred in Itapiranga and thus to offer a secure and credible basis for the Church."

Itacoatiara, January 31, 2010

 

(cnt'd)
iii) Document accompanying the laying of the Cornerstone of the new Sanctuary in Itapiranga:

"On May 2nd 2010, in the area designated the Sanctuary in Itapiranga, Amazonia, at 10 a.m., with a multitude of the faithful present in devout prayer and between songs of jubilation, I, Don Carillo Gritti, Bishop of the Prelacy of Itacoatiara to which this parish of Itapiranga belongs, placed the Foundation Stone of this new Sanctuary in honour of Our Lady of the Holy Rosary and of Peace, where homage will be rendered to the Sacred Hearts of Jesus, Mary and Joseph."
Itapiranga, May 2nd, 2010

 

iv) Bishop Carillo Gritti's letter of recommendation concerning Edson Glauber, 2010

"Itapiranga (Amazonia), May 2, 1994, Our Lady appears to EDSON GLAUBER COUTINHO.
A simple young man, having completed his education, already walking in prayer in his own family through his mother, to whom Our Lady first appeared and spoke, with the young man only seeing [her].
These appearances in which Our Lady was pleased to call herself Queen of the Rosary and of Peace, progressed in such a way that the young Edson first saw, then saw and heard; [they] have gone on for fourteen years in such a way that presently only messages are occurring.
The young man, who belongs to a simple, [but] not needy family, who possesses an authentically prayerful attitude in his heart and has a particular devotion to Our Lady, I present as "sincere and devout", the bearer of visions and messages worthy of appreciation [dignas de serem apreciadas]. Indeed, by means of a Theological Commission instituted by myself, we are studying the probable supernatural character of the events and messages.
Seeing that in various apparitions the Virgin has called for a devotion to the Three Sacred Hearts of Jesus, Mary and Joseph, on May 2nd of this year 2010, we laid the first stone of a new Sanctuary in honour of the Three Sacred Hearts, in the certainty that it will one day be the place of many pilgrimages. Conversions, which only God through the intercession of Mary can bring about, have until now been an adequate and sufficient reason for myself and enlightened souls to see in these visions and messages the finger of God.
May God and Our Lady, together with her most chaste Spouse St Joseph, accompany us on this path of the re-evangelization of the territory of Amazonia"

All translations P.B.

 

It ought to be apparent from the documents above that Bishop Gritti as the local ordinary has really 'gone out to bat' for the Itapiranga apparitions and for Edson Glauber personally in a big way. Knowing the normally highly circumspect attitude of most ecclesiastical authorities in similar situations, this is extremely unusual.

Further support for Edson Glauber comes from René Laurentin:

"He demonstrates a very great modesty, he radiates peace, his human and spiritual smile makes a great impression on those who know how to look. There are degrees of transparency which do not deceive!
His principal mission is to pray for young people, for their conversion, for peace in families and in the world. Thousands of people come to Itapiranga every day, pray to the Virgin and drink the miraculous water. Many healings have been recorded and the cases transmitted to the apostolic administration in Itapiranga. Edson's balance is remarkable."

"Il fait preuve d’une très grande modestie, il dégage un rayonnement de paix, son sourire humain et spirituel est très impressionnant pour qui sait voir. Il y a des degrés de transparence qui ne trompent pas ! Sa mission principale est de prier pour les jeunes, pour leur conversion,
pour la paix dans les familles et dans le monde. Des milliers de personnes viennent chaque jour à Itapiranga, prient la Vierge et boivent de l’eau miraculeuse. De nombreuses guérisons ont été constatées et les dossiers sont transmis à la préfecture apostolique d’Itapiranga. L’équilibre dont bénéficie Edson est remarquable. ”
http://www.appel-du-ciel.org/wordpr...e-et-culte-autorise-par-Mgr-Gritti-Bresil.pdf

See also this photostat of the entry 'Itapiranga' in the Italian translation of René Laurentin's and Patrick Sbalchiero's Dizionario delle "Apparizioni" della Virgine (2010):
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wpX2hzYs4...CN0/nxnoYLNXg7M/s1600/dicion%C3%A1rio+004.jpg

Naturally I could be wrong in my discernment about all of this, who knows? That is a danger which is impossible to avoid, I think. But after having spent literally hundreds of hours studying the case and the 1200+ pages of Portuguese messages in their entirety, my confidence in them is considerable. And if I do turn out to be wrong, so are Bishop Gritti and Abbé Laurentin, the competent Church authority and arguably the world's greatest living Mariologist respectively, which is fine with me.

 

Thank you very much, Peter, for presenting these documents in translation. They are certainly helpful for me to try and get a 'hold' on the events in Itapiranga. An important aspect that gives me pause for caution is the gap (as I understand it) between 1998 and whatever year Edson Glauber began issuing messages again. I think you maybe had told me something about this gap but I cannot find the information now. And am I getting confused with someone else if I mention the possible involvement of Edson's mother at some stage?

 

Actually, it was Maria do Carmo, Edson's mother, who was the first recipient of the apparitions in 1994. When asking Our Lady why she had chosen a mother/son duo, Edson claimed that he heard the following reply:

'Becuase I want to show for all my children in the entire world the Maternal love that I have for my Son Jesus and the Filial love that Jesus has for me. This is why I have chosen a Mother and a son, in order that they should represent this love.'

Porque eu quero mostrar para todos os meus filhos do mundo inteiro, o amor de Mãe que eu tenho para com meu Filho Jesus e o amor de Filho que Jesus tem para comigo. É por isso que eu escolhi uma Mãe e um filho, para representarem este amor.
http://www.santuariodeitapiranga.com.br/aparicoes/confidentes.html

Maria do Carmo

The public phase of the Itapiranga apparitions ceased on May 2, 1998, but there was no prolonged break in the private alleged messages to Edson, which resumed on September 12, 1998 and have continued to this date.

 

I find this interesting. But also, I found this page on the Miracle Hunter website:
http://www.miraclehunter.com/marian_apparitions/approved_apparitions/itapiranga/index.html

On the above page it states:
May 2, 1998

In her last public appearance in Itapiranga, Our Lady warns that she would no longer appear in that place, because she had already said what she wanted to convey to people. Now it was the time when it was necessary to put into practice her teachings.

The apparitions were repeated in Edson and of his mother, because Our Lady wanted to continue to guide them and pray with them for the Church and for the world, family and peace.

Is the mother at all involved in the current activities?

 

Sometimes I am in awe at how many places and how many people our Lord and his mother Mary have been reaching out to in this world in the past 100 years. More so even, in the past few decades. Yet, so few know about it, and I would contend that most who have heard are not impressed or care to even acknowledge that this has been taking place. I keep asking myself, why? Why so very few who seem to be listening? Have so many truly been lulled to sleep? This truly is one of the most alarming signs of the times.

 

Fatima,

I too am amazed at the plethora of Marian apparitions. I realize, of course, that many of these are rooted in an overactive imagination and/or demonic deception. Even so, I would ask Joe Crozier to consider the incessantly compassionate Heart of Our Lady and the love of the Father, as a reason to believe that a number of these are authentic, embracing different peoples and cultures. If a danger of the too-familiar- breeding-contempt exists, it is as much a consequence of modern, worldwide communication networks than anything else. I say let God be generous and by being so, reach more souls! Lord have Mercy!

Safe in the Refuge of the Immaculate Heart!

 

Hi Mario
I understand what you are saying but I am also aware that Our Lady at Garabandal advised Conchita that false apparitions would follow in many parts of the world. These would be designed to divert faith from Garabandal. Akita uses the same words and themes as Garabandal and thus enforces its messages. It is also Church approved and thus can be trusted if you chose to believe.

 

Message of Our Lady, May 21, 2016
http://itapiranga0205.blogspot.fr/2016/05/mensagem-de-nossa-senhora-em-21052016.html

Peace my beloved children, peace!
My beloved children, I your Mother love you and I come from heaven to ask you to continue to pray for the conversion of sinners and the salvation of souls.
Many of your brothers are spiritually blind and are far from the Heart of my Son Jesus. Help your brothers by interceding for them every day.
The sins of the world will be punished severely if there are not major reparations. Offer your availability to the Lord and dedicate yourselves to the kingdom of heaven.
Do not let yourselves be deceived by the things of the world, because they are temporary. Strive for the kingdom of heaven, in order to be closer to my Divine Son and to me, and you will have true happiness and peace.
My children, receive my messages in your hearts and be those who spread them and tell them to your brothers who are without light and peace. I am always by your side and I never abandon you.
Return to your homes with God's peace. I bless you all: in the name of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen!