Picadlillo You quote Dolours and then address the question to me so I am not sure how to or if am being asked to respond. I have never denigrated faithful Catholics but as all know here I will not stand idle in face of Our Holy Father being denigrated by false witness. The key word for proper understanding is "integrate." See above link. No cover up there.
No they pose genuine and intelligent questions from a position of authority that they have earned showing respect for the authority of Office. They do not employ tactics or strategies such as yours. Edit: they do not display your malice.
I posted articles from them raising the same exact questions I do. If you have a problem with me, you have the same with them, especially her. She's the one who says the apostasy starts "at the top."
We have been advised in the past not to pay too much attention to reports of the Pope's mid-air press conferences, especially when his comments were controversial. The press conference where the Pope said that Communion for the divorced and remarried was not permitted happened aboard the Papal plane. When asked about the Exhortation, Pope Francis referred people to Cardinal Schonborn for an explanation. The Cardinal, in this video, gives an explanation to a group of academics. Towards the end of the long video, he speaks about the controversial footnote, having first checked whether he was speaking "on the record". I would love to know what he would have said off the record. Cardinal Schonborn waffles on a bit about the Church's use of insensitive language toward people in "irregular situations". (Poor Jesus didn't know how hurtful the word "adultery" would sound after 2000 years). Like Pope Francis, the Cardinal likes to quote Popes John Paul and Benedict to lend extra validity to his comments. He talks about Pope Francis explicitly excluding "so-called gay marriage", and later says that Pope John Paul explicitly said that remarried divorcees could not be admitted to Communion unless they were living in continence. Then he adds a Pope Francis "but". Perhaps it hasn't occurred to the Cardinal that some time in the future, homosexual marriage will be treated to a similar "but" after quoting Pope Francis and Amoris Laetita. Then again, perhaps it has occurred to the Cardinal. He has been in the corridors of power during all three pontificates. It might even have occurred to the Pope. I have seen plenty of references to Pope Francis having left that door ajar. There's no shortage of Clerics, including priests and Bishops very close to the Pope saying that Amoris Laetita does permit Communion for the divorced and remarried. I'm afraid that only leaves us with: a) Pope Francis didn't know what was in the Exhortation when he gave the press conference b) Pope Francis doesn't know his own mind from one day to the next c) Pope Francis wasn't telling the whole truth when answering the question at the press conference We can ask this Pope for a clear statement on the issue until we are blue in the face but it won't be forthcoming. This document has merely heaped more trouble on some future Pope who will have the courage to teach what Jesus taught in clear, unambiguous language. That's when there will be a scramble to abandon the barque of Peter by the oh-so-merciful Catholics, leaving the remnant aboard and paddling against the secularist tide.
Not the same thing at all. I detect no antagonism to Pope Francis in these good men nor do they encourage opposition from others. Edit: Most of all what gets my goat is the suggestion that our Holy Father is encouraging mortal sin, the obstinate refusal to credit his words with their best possible meaning and the graceless response to the clarifications that are wrested from His Holiness. On this site he is dismissed unjustifiably as a fool and a heretic. Not one opponent of the Pope here has been able to provide a clear example of heresy or deviation from the eternal truths that he has uttered. And yet they keep throwing muck. The one "at the top" is yet to come.
http://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/pope-francis-no-communion-for-divorced-and-remarried http://aleteia.org/2016/04/14/amoris-laetitia-confused-by-footnote-351-a-look-at-329-can-help/ Just in case you had forgotten to read these Brian and just in case your tactics had drawn others away from the truth they contain.
The first link you supplied is to a piece about the Pope's answer to a question posed by journalists on his flight from Mexico, before issuing Amoris Laetita. The second link starts by saying that the divorced and remarried could be innocent of mortal sin on the grounds that the grave matter lacks knowledge and consent. Every Catholic on the planet knows that remarriage without a Church annulment is a no-no, which rules out a lack of knowledge. Even in the remotest likelihood that they were ignorant of Christ's definition of adultery, the lack of knowledge can and should be corrected by the Priest in their first conversation. Once lack of knowledge is settled, the consent is not a a valid excuse. The wording in the Exhortation is deliberately open to interpretation to provide cover for Bishops who had been practising open Communion and wanted the Church to give official consent to the practise - a case of the German tail wagging the universal dog. All the internal forum and pastoral accompaniment leading to conversion stuff is smoke and mirrors. Pope Francis himself boiled down the pastoral approach and the internal forum to a phone call when he told the Argentinian woman to go find another priest to give her Communion after she had been refused in her own parish. Jesus said that marriage is for life. He made it clear that a second marriage is adultery, even for an abandoned spouse. Changing the word "adultery" to "irregular" doesn't change the fact that it is still adultery no matter how many grandiose theological arguments are used to explain it away. Shame on Pope Francis and his inner circle, and shame on any bishop, priest or lay Catholic who would resort to this twisting of Christ's words in the name of mercy.
Here are some of my thoughts following on from comments that have been made. Firstly, thanks to Dolours for the video of Cardinal Schonborn. He is a beautiful man and I would recommend that people view the whole video in an open way. With regard to the whole matter of communion for the re-married, there are so many complaints about lack of clarity in the exhortation. People want everything nicely presented with clear cut rules and regulations, everything black and white. But life is not like that. For many Catholics, it has to be like that and if anyone tries to suggest it is not then - anathema!! For those who think that the exhortation has not changed anything then I would disagree strongly. And this is best shown in the Pope's most recent press conference on the plane from Lesbos. He was asked: Some sustain that nothing has changed with respect to the discipline that regulates access to the sacraments for the divorced and remarried, that the Law, the pastoral praxis and obviously the doctrine remain the same. Others sustain that much has changed and that there are new openings and possibilities. For a Catholic who wants to know: are there new, concrete possibilities that didn’t exist before the publication of the exhortation or not? The Pope's reply began- I can say yes - period. That was a very firm and clear response. But the attacks on the Pope are so strong and relentless that there can be a tendency for faithful supporters of Francis to underplay some aspects of what he is saying. Then the critics come back and say, why not spell out in black and white what those new openings and possibilities are? For me, this type of question reminds me of how the Jews complained to Jesus that Moses had allowed divorce so why was He was contradicting that rule. Jesus' reply was that it was allowed because of their hardness of heart. The new openings that the exhortation allows are best left to individual souls to recognize with the help of their pastors. Regardless, these openings do not in any way undermine the indissolubility of marriage, they are all about helping those in difficult situations to increase in their love of God and a determination to become holy. God bless Pope Francis and may he be with us for many many years to come. There is an expectation that his papacy will not be long. I'm beginning to feel that God could once again surprise us!
And if the prophesies that the vast majority will apostatise are correct... The Church is not a democracy. The Lord himself asserted the possibility that there might be no Faith left in the world when He returns.
There is nothing to defend. Pope Francis was making it quite clear that he is pushing the boat (or the barque if you like) out farther than it had ever gone before in his outreach of Mercy. The distance that the Church is willing to go to show exiles the best way back and to welcome them home, reconciled and integrated, has changed, period. If your neighbour asks you to walk one mile with him, go two miles. The course of the barque has not changed and she is still set on heaven for all who seek salvation. There is no salvation outside of the Church so the Church has to become more accomodating without compromise and without losing direction either in terms of guidance or destination. The same dogma will guide. The same Destiny will harken.
First, you say that the Pope has not opened Communion to the divorced and remarried, and posted a video of the Pope saying that. Then you posted a link to an article explaining why and how the Pope has opened Communion to the divorced and remarried. I didn't twist the words of the Vicar of Christ. He said one thing and signed his name to another, twisting his own words. Now you say that there is no salvation outside the Church so the Church has to become more accommodating without compromise. Opening Communion to the divorced and remarried is compromise. This exhortation goes against 2000 years of tradition and directly contradicts Popes John Paul and Benedict. The Bishops who have said that the Exhortation doesn't allow for Communion for the divorced and remarried with no commitment to complete continence have based their statement on Divine Law, saying that it isn't allowed because nobody, not even the Pope has that authority. Now you are saying that the document allows for what you and the Pope have said that it doesn't allow, and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith says it cannot allow. Take off your rose tinted glass and see where this is leading the Church. First Communion for the divorced under the guise of mercy. After a while, mercy will be extended to recognising all non-sacramental second unions among heterosexuals. After that comes a non-sacramental blessing of people in homosexual unions (Cardinal Schonborn has already done this and will require cover). The final unravelling of Christ's teaching on marriage will come when the Church becomes more accommodating to homosexuals and marries them in the name of mercy. That accommodation you're talking about is also referred to as developing Doctrine rather than changing it. Whatever term is used to gloss over it, the results will be the same. God save us from our shepherds in these dangerous times for people of faith.
Well put Dolours. Of course the pope knows exactly that some bishops will allow m+d to receive communion. That is what this whole commission was always about. The stacking of the committees, sacking of Cardinal Burke. He is trying to stop a schism from occurring so he is playing the vatican 2 card. He is a holy person, however he knew exactly what he was doing when he said who am I to judge. I said it many times here, the floodgates to perversion opened up worldwide since those comments. His encyclical on global warming, a joke. Oh, I am sorry, the part on the environment was beautiful (who disagrees with that). If he has a theory on global warming/climate change, put forth some predictions if he knows it is scientific and be proven correct. Then I will believe. He can not. It is not. He put the legitimacy of a papal encyclical on the line for a speculative theory on the environment. He continues to denigrate catholics who hold onto the traditional teachings of the church. This is the tactic of a grade school bully. Of course he is trying to change traditional catholic teachings. Duh. His photo op with globalist Angela Merkel was just the latest in a string of cover and support for the globalists. http://www.infowars.com/angela-merkel-to-attend-secretive-bilderberg-2016-meeting/ Please Joe, I know he is your friend but wake-up to reality.
"when he said who am I to judge. I said it many times here, the floodgates to perversion opened up worldwide since those comments." Not true
Explain then why Pope Francis is a 'hero' to many 'gays'? http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/new...-he-would-like-to-meet-his-hero-pope-francis/
Just to mention two countries among others, the US and Ireland. Gay marriage has been approved in both. Transgender-ism is now being pushed/approved and rammed down our throats in both countries. Facts are stubborn things FallenSaint. Not to mention the new global moral authority: http://www.thenewamerican.com/world...n-pushes-homosexual-agenda-with-postal-stamps
Amoris Laetitia sets down a bedrock too for 'homosexual persons' & 'couples' to receive communion because it gives primacy to individual conscience over church teaching. We also find it hard to make room for the consciences of the faithful, who very often respond as best they can to the Gospel amid their limitations, and are capable of carrying out their own discernment in complex situations. We have been called to form consciences, not to replace them. Hence it is can no longer simply be said that all those in any “irregular” situation are living in a state of mortal sin and are deprived of sanctifying grace. NB - here again we have politically correct language used in a Church document. There is no such thing as a 'homosexual person' only a person who struggles with a 'homosexual' condition or gives in to it.
This document is the fulfillment of "the spirit of vatican 2" that the last two popes just cleaned up.
