Our Church has always had debates (2000 years) priest vs priest or Saint vs Saint. But on basic tenets faith there is no arguments. Brother al
Joe, I know this to be true. But, it is so hard to imagine anyone turning away from the Lord of love, once they see his wounds they caused through their sins. How can a heart not melt and repent at that moment? Truly a mystery. In GSWYL messages, our Lord makes clear that the greatest amount of people that will reject him after the Warning will be "lukewarm Catholics and apostate Protestants". Why? I can only conclude, because they were already given the truth in and through the New Testament and have already rejected his love to the love of this world. It will be the Muslims, Jews, Hindu's and Atheists who will convert. We will recognize our persecutors, as they were the many who used to sit by us in our pews who have since left the Church and the faith for the pleasures of this world. Time is shorter than we realize.
Thanks for the link Joe. The Holy Father is indeed upholding doctrine. But some sneak put in the 'footnote 351 of paragraph 305' and this is causing many problems. I think the Holy Father should remove the offending and confusing footnote.
What kind of cascade could that cause. How many more things would pressure groups ask to be changed because they felt strongly about their point of view. John is a friend of mine and he has great respect from me. But he is not the Pope nor has he the authority given by Christ to make and break. I thank God that most people have never heard of this controversy. For those who think themselves clever the footnote has to be read in context. (see article below.) Those clever Catholics should be educating the Catholic public what AL really means; what the Pope means but only if they have any concerns or an unclear. They should not be creating doubt. Of course those who do not trust The Pope will insist that He is the problem and that he is unclear even after he has very clearly dealt with the so called problem. I don't care how clever someone is or high up in the Church if they cannot look at his exhortations though the faith filled and benevolent eyes of true wisdom and promote the good they contain they should at least not cause harm to the Church by weakening confidence in Her visible head. . They say they are trying to uphold Catholic truth but they are only dividing Catholic opinion and undermining our greatest symbol of unity. They should be reassuring the faithful, if they are confused, and only if, that the Pope is sound in his exhortations and is a great leader, that he is 100% behind Catholic doctrine and that there is no cause for concern. They should preach what he has said not what they think he meant or what he could have meant. It is only through the so call educated Catholic elite that concern has been manufactured. We ordinary Catholics know without doubt that Our Holy Father would never encourage or even hint that those in a state of unforgiven mortal sin should receive communion. IMHO the Pope should not change one iota of AL including the footnote. He is opening the doors of Mercy as wide as possible and pushing the barque of Peter out as far as possible to those floundering in a sea of misery and misinformation. He is throwing the life rings while his detractors are throwing millstones around the necks of the drowning poor. It is the responsibility of priests to make sure that their parishioners are quite clear what constitutes unworthy reception of the Eucharist. They should tell their flock again from the pulpit or from wherever they deliver their homilies, sermons or exhortations, that any form of sex outside of marriage that is sanctioned by the Catholic Church is gravely wrong and normally constitutes mortal sin. This is not the job of the Pope. He cannot be in every parish. The priests have the Catholic Catechism to teach from and that has not changed. They should make it clear that there is a right and correct way back for those who are still not clear and that they should speak to him about their concerns. The priest can then offer what the Pope Has offered and they are free to take it or leave it. No one has any excuse about not being clear. The Pope has made it perfectly clear. Please see the links above and below. I realize I am wasting my time writing this for some on this site but for others it may provide a better and an easier way to be a better Catholic. Do yourselves a favour, give your heads a rest and trust the Pope. Matthew 11. 28-30 http://aleteia.org/2016/04/14/amoris-laetitia-confused-by-footnote-351-a-look-at-329-can-help/
It's good you are so smart and clever Joe, and that to you this pope is crystal clear, but lesser men, like Cardinal Muller, head of the CDF, still need a clarification. http://www.onepeterfive.com/exhortation-muller-resists-fernandez-reveals/
More "mercy": http://ncronline.org/news/vatican/francis-create-commission-study-female-deacons-catholic-church Francis to create commission to study female deacons in Catholic church Pope Francis has announced he will create a commission to study the possibility of allowing women to serve as deacons in the Catholic church, signaling an historic openness to the possibility of ending the global institution’s practice of an all-male clergy. The pontiff indicated he would create such a commission during a meeting at the Vatican Thursday with some 900 leaders of the world’s congregations of Catholic women religious, who asked him during a question-and-answer session why the church excludes women from serving as deacons. The women religious, meeting with the pope as part of the triennial assembly of the International Union of Superiors General (UISG), told Francis that women has served as deacons in the early church and asked: “Why not construct an official commission that might study the question?” The pope responded that he had spoken about the matter once some years ago with a “good, wise professor” who had studied the use of female deacons in the early centuries of the church. Francis said it remained unclear to him what role such deacons had. “What were these female deacons?” the pontiff recalled asking the professor. “Did they have ordination or no?" “It was a bit obscure,” said Francis. "What was the role of the deaconess in that time?” “Constituting an official commission that might study the question?” the pontiff asked aloud. "I believe yes. It would do good for the church to clarify this point. I am in agreement. I will speak to do something like this.” “I accept,” the pope said later. “It seems useful to me to have a commission that would clarify this well." This is a breaking news story that is being updated. [Joshua J. McElwee is NCR Vatican correspondent. His email address is jmcelwee@ncronline.org. Follow him on Twitter: @joshjmac.]
Sorry folks, I trust Alice von Hildebrande more than MOG members: Owing to a lack of clarity and specificity in Chapter 8 of Pope Francis’ Apostolic Exhortation, Amoris Laetitia (AL), mutually contradictory views are circulating as to what it means for Catholics living publicly in objectively sinful relationships. ...His Eminence, one of the few persons who had seen the complete secret, wrote in a 1995 letter to Professor Baumgartner of Salzburg: “In the Third Secret it is predicted, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin at the top.” ... In a private email at the beginning of May Dr. von Hildebrand told me about this 1965 conversation in Florence. I asked her whether she would allow this to be made known to a wider audience, and after consulting with her spiritual director, she replied that he had given her permission to do so. (email to Fr. Brian Harrison dated May 6, 2016): Dear Father, I think the following two conversations, which I recall very well from the 1960s, are of particular interest now, in these deeply troubled times half a century later. For they apparently corroborate Cardinal Ciappi’s testimony that part of Our Lady’s Fatima secret was the shocking prediction that the great apostasy in the Church would begin “at the top.” The first conversation was In June 1965. We were in Florence in the house where my husband was born, and where I spent my first sabbatical. My husband invited a priest named Msgr. Mario Boehm, whom he had met in Rome shortly after his conversion, and who had been one of the top editors of L’Osservatore Romano for many years. The topic of Fatima came up. My husband raised the question, “Why was the third secret of Fatima not revealed?” For the Holy Virgin had said it should be shared with the faithful in 1960. Don Mario: It was not revealed because of its content. My husband: What was so fearful about it? Msgr. Boehm (as a well-trained Italian) did not say that he had read it, but intimated that the content was fearful: “infiltration of the Church to the very top”. It shattered us but confirmed my husband’s fear that the way Vatican II was interpreted was going to expose the Church to terrible dangers. Alas, this fear was well founded. The second conversation is one with Bella Dodd that I have already spoken about on previous occasions. We met her in the Fall of 1965 and she visited us here at New Rochelle, NY, where I still live, either in 1966 or 1967. She had been an ardent communist from her student days at Hunter College – a hotbed of communism. (That is why I was systematically persecuted there, as recounted in my book, Memoirs of a Happy Failure.)Bella had sown the seeds of this diabolical philosophy at Hunter, but converted in 1952 under the guidance of Archbishop Fulton Sheen. Let me repeat the conversation between her and my husband: DvH: I fear the Church has been infiltrated. Bella: You fear it, dear Professor; I know it! When I was an ardent communist I was working in close contact with four cardinals in the Vatican working for us; and they are still very active today. DvH: Who are they? My nephew Dieter Sattler is a German stationed at the Holy See. But Bella, who was under the spiritual guidance of Archbishop Sheen, declined to give him this information. The only recourse we have now is prayer, and the firm conviction that the gates of hell shall not prevail. St. Matthew ch. XXIV has warned us. In union of ardent prayers. I am, dear Father, respectfully yours in Christ, Alice von Hildebrand http://motheofgod.com/threads/alice-von-hildebrand-sheds-new-light-on-third-secret-of-fatima.9185/
Brian, Big deal...when I was in seminary the lines were also drawn. Half the seminary was liberal...but they did like the pompous attire. 25% were moderate and 25% were conservative. The Church has always had these issues. The politics within the church are way more vicious then secular politics. It doesn't take a seer to tell you some bishops have hidden agendas or might even be possessed. But so was Judas...and he was a living witness to God Himself. Stop the scare tactics...God allows free will even in the Church. But the truth cannot be destroyed. Even with all the nonsense that happened after Vatican 2. God has gradually brought his church back. The liberal orders are a dying breed and the conservative orders are flourishing. Maybe Vatican 2 was a way to bring out the liberals for there gradual demise. To all those that fear there are bad bishops. Yes there is...but the Holy Spirit has it under control. May Gods Will be Done For those that ask why doesn't our Holy Father get rid of them. I leave the question...why didn't Jesus get rid of Judus?
I was glad to escape Rome at Christmas,such an atmosphere of pure evil, but God will crush their schemes
Resorting again to sarcasm Brian? A tried and trusted tactic of the bully. Our school bully was sorted by my best friend who was half his size. Perhaps my half sized brain is being put to good use by a Power much greater than the good Cardinal. God bless Pope Francis.
FS, I believe if you were a victim of clerical abuse you would not say the Holy Spirit had it under control. It went on for years under holy popes and knowledgeable/enabling bishops/cardinals.
You went past sarcasm to damning souls to hell a long time ago. (And the SSPX is an internal Church matter - they are far more "Catholic" than the fools pushing the sacraments for d&r.)
Whosoever shall say "Thou fool" shall be in danger of hell fire. Matt 5.22 that's not me giving the warning. Those who push communion for the unrepentant and non-integrated d & r are damning themselves. Our Pope has never ever done this. I have neither need nor desire to damn anyone's soul. Those whose thoughts words deeds and omissions falsely accuse Our Holy Father of promoting mortal sin are perfectly capable of doing that for themselves.
Then why the uproar throughout the orthodox Catholic world? We're simply posting articles written by leaders and writers in the Catholic world. Are they all upset over nothing, unable to comprehend like you the pope's clear intent (that is mirrored in his footnotes)?
Those who push Communion for the unrepentant and non-integrated are Cardinals whom the Pope has praised as great theologians. They are his inner circle. They push for open Communion using the same type of safe, legal and rare argument that was used to promote abortion. We saw what that argument did to the bodies of unborn babies. Now it is being used against the Body of Christ in the Eucharist. I'm beginning to understand why the Bishop of Rome lauded Italy's most notorious abortionist as a forgotten great. That was the writing on the wall letting us know what was coming down the tracks, and he's on a roll now that he has the secular press and Christmas Catholics on board. Sadly, on board with Pope Francis doesn't equate to bums in the pews. The "Jesus ate with sinners" excuse has been done to death, as has the "Jesus didn't get rid of Judas". Jesus didn't run his plans by the Romans before informing the faithful as did the Pope with his atheist journalist friend. Jesus knew that Judas' days were numbered and didn't praise him as a brilliant theologian, leaving him to spread error among the faithful. He warned all the apostles what was about to happen. I'm sick of the Pope's tactics of defending his inner circle by heading off at the pass all criticism by referring to faithful Catholics and concerned clergy as Pelagians, Gnostics, hypocrites or, his latest favourite, the Prodigal's elder brother. We all should be crawling on our hands and knees to receive the Blessed Eucharist and the Vicar of Christ should be at the forefront of defending Christ's Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, not talking as though it were aspirin for a headache. It's the Pope's duty to make sure that ALL the senior clergy are preaching and practising the same Catholic faith without deliberate error. As the visible head of the Church on earth, he needs to be honest with the faithful and not contriving ways and means of giving cover to errant Bishops who see themselves as their own magisterium..
The only uproar is that created by your Catholic consortium which thank God is most likely not representative of the Church known and loved by the vast majority of the Faithful.
