Divine Will revisited.

The Lord’s Prayer

Why then to we pray "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven"? In the Catechism of the Catholic Church (2822 - page 677) we are taught that keeping the commandments of God is God’s Will for us. In heaven the angels and saints do not sin, and they are perfectly united in love with each other and with God. It is God’s Will that we do the same on earth. But to love is impossible without grace, so we pray for that grace to do God’s will. This has nothing to do with a Kingdom of the Divine Will.



The Kingdom of Heaven

We also pray "Thy Kingdom come … on earth as it is in Heaven" also. Catholic Doctrine teaches us that the Church is the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. It is a Kingdom because the King is in it. He is in every Tabernacle all over the world. It is a Kingdom on a journey to the Kingdom in the Heavens, but it is totally God’s Kingdom nonetheless. By praying "Thy Kingdom come" we are longing for the day that we will join the Kingdom on earth with the Kingdom in Heaven. But this will happen on the last day when Christ does away with this earth. We are also praying that the Kingdom on earth will be as holy and as united as the Kingdom in the Sky. We are not praying for an earthly Kingdom of the Divine Will.



Millenarism (Chiliadism)

This would be the same as praying for an earthly return of Christ to live with us for a thousand years on earth. This is a heresy that goes all the way back to the time of Saint John, the Apostle, called Chiliadism. It is known today as Millenarism. The second coming of Christ is not to make an earthly Kingdom, but to end the earth forever, and to bring body and souls up to the sky, and thereby create the union of spiritual and physical that will be the final end of creation.

 

Waiting for a specific quote from Luisa's writings and a specific quote from the Magisterium that they allegedly contradict, Mac; not your own interpretation of both.

Incidentally, I covered this concern on page 65 https://danieloconnor.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/the-crown-and-completion-of-all-sanctity.pdf

 

Why Divine Mercy?

One of the great devotions of the Twentieth Century, and a favorite of the Holy Father, is "The Divine Mercy" as presented to the world by Christ to Blessed Faustina. She wrote these messages in her diary in 1930 and died in 1938.

Luisa Piccarreta wrote her books between 1899 and 1938. It seems that both were writing at the same time.

To Faustina Christ was saying, "I am Love and Mercy itself. When a soul approaches Me with trust, I fill it with such an abundance of graces that it cannot contain them within itself, but radiates them to other souls."

To Luisa, at the same time, Christ was saying: "My daughter, whoever it totally in my Will is not subject to temptation, because the devil does not have the power to enter in my Will,"

If a soul is not subject to temptation, it does not sin. If it does not sin, it needs no Mercy. Christ is defeating and making obsolete the Divine Mercy at the same time that He is showing it to the world.

To Faustina Christ was saying, "Encourage souls to say the Chaplet which I have given you. Whoever will recite it will receive great mercy at the hour of death … Through the Chaplet you will obtain everything, if what you ask for is compatible with My will."

But to Luisa, at the same time in history, Christ was saying, "To the soul that … lives in my Will there is no death. … This is because the soul who does my Will is not subject to death, has no judgment, and her life is eternal."

Faustina wrote in her diary that the entire Divine Mercy devotion was centered in the Eucharist. "Oh what awesome mysteries take place during Mass! … One day we will know what God is doing for us in each Mass, and what sort of gift He is preparing in it for us. Only His divine love could permit that such a gift be provided for us … this fountain of life gushing forth with such sweetness and power. All the good that is in me is due to Holy Communion."

At the same time in history, Christ was saying to Luisa, "When souls live in this sanctity [the Divine Will] I will not need Priests to consecrate Me, not churches, nor tabernacles, nor Hosts, because these souls will be everything: Priests, tabernacles and Hosts; and my Love will be liberated. Every time a souls wishes to consecrate Me she will be able to do so, at any moment of the day or night, wherever the soul may be."

Since in the Kingdom of the Divine Will we will not need priests, tabernacles and Mass, why did Christ come to Faustina to show that the Divine Mercy is poured out in the Eucharist?

Could God contradict Himself at the same time in history? Both the Divine Mercy and the Divine Will cannot be true, since one contradicts the other. If you are to believe in the Divine Will, then you must hold that the Divine Mercy is false. For me, I will place my trust in the Divine Mercy of Christ as presented to St Faustina, and will bet that Luisa is never made Blessed.

 

First of all, Mac, it's plagiarism to copy/paste someone else's work without attributing him

Anyway, since Mac did not do the attributing, I will do it for him: the above is the work of "Unity Publishing," a group that has proclaimed itself the enemy of and decider on "false apparitions." It is especially zealous in opposing Medjugorje and Garabandal (deeming the latter "perhaps the most dangerous") as well as Fr. Gobbi, some of the Kibeho seers, "the Charismatics," Vassula Ryden, Poem of the Man God, the Servant of God Maria Esparanza, and countless others. Reminds me of Ron Conte.

Secondly, Mac, I'm still waiting

 

Why then to we pray "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven"?

Simply because that has not been accomplished as yet. God the Creator's intention from the beginning, and that intention has never changed, is for His Kingdom to finally be accomplished on earth AS in heaven....nothing about joining the places together or obliterating the earth completely at this time but renewing it, separate from heaven. That cannot take place BUT with all those worthy, living completely in His Divine Will as was intended. And this period will surpass the original Garden of Adam since Satan will be locked up....he still roamed in that former Garden. This life surpasses even the holiness of those who have merited heaven. Those who lived in the Divine Will will be known in heaven and stand out as martyrs stand out. Again, it is beyond our human estimation to grasp currently....that is why we also pray to the Holy Spirit to "come....send forth Your Spirit and we (humans) shall be recreated and Thou shalt renew the face of the earth"!! Big, big change!!

By praying "Thy Kingdom come" we are longing for the day that we will join the Kingdom on earth with the Kingdom in Heaven. But this will happen on the last day when Christ does away with this earth.

If there is no earth because it has been done away with then there is no earth to fulfill the intention of the Our Father....earth must continue to exist in order to have His Will done in the midst of creatures "on earth AS it is in heaven".

I think it's something completely new to speak of this "interim Kingdom" because it just has been passed over except by the very few and far between theologians of eschatology who reference the Early Church Fathers who themselves spoke of it....as they find in Scripture and pass on the traditional teaching of those Early Church Fathers....and also alluded to by approved mystics and saints. Remember this purification is NOT the end of the world....only an era, which is currently in a pretty abominable direction (the diabolical disorientation) that must be corrected before there is any possibility that the Our Father can be fulfilled...impossible without the intervention of that Holy Spirit's renewal...of us as well as the world. After the Warning a great number will long for it...since they will understand the reason for it as they see themselves as they lived without being fused with the Divine Will.

 

The Divine Mercy and the Divine Will are meant to walk hand in hand. There can be no fulfillment of the Divine Will without repentance. God hands us unbelievable graces/indulgences in this time of Mercy to return to Him...that's why it's considered "unfathomable"...not even the Angels can comprehend it. It is a gracious preparation for fulfilling and even desiring the Era of the Divine Will. We have up to the Warning for such Mercy to be received. Afterwards only Justice. Afterwards it will be the Judge/God Who will make the decision of who deserves His Mercy....who is working worthily to change their ways after they learn the Truth. Right now all we have to do is pray the chaplet for the sick and dying and Jesus will stand between the person and the Justice of the Father. Up to the Warning we simply accept these wondrous graces of complete forgiveness and can become like new born babies as He's promised through His messenger of this Mercy, Faustina. She was forming this portion while Luisa's portion was to learn just what this "renewal" of the Holy Spirit means in fact. Faustina did not have the mission to educate about what it takes to live the Divine will and thus this coming period of the Divine Will. They missions are completely linked. And Pope Francis extends at least the plenary indulgence throughout this "extraordinary" Jubilee Year of Mercy. Then what??!!! Does he want to prepare as many as possible for this Warning and the humility to accept God's forgiveness when it happens? Or is he simply being guided by the Holy Spirit but not knowing exactly why?

If a soul is not subject to temptation, it does not sin. If it does not sin, it needs no Mercy. Christ is defeating and making obsolete the Divine Mercy at the same time that He is showing it to the world.

You are speaking of two different times as we measure. Because of Divine Mercy one is helped now to enter into the New Era of living in the Divine Will. After the Warning while one undergoes the purification of tribulations one becomes completely purified of the attachments of the human will so that after the Warning those who did not benefit by the great indulgence/s of the Divine Mercy can "work out their salvation" by remaining faithful through the trials...as working off any punishment still due to their past sins. That punishment is no longer for those who fulfilled the requests of the Divine Mercy devotion. Then they both arrive at the point of receiving the preternatural gifts as Adam had originally been gifted with....or they could be taken to heaven. Those who have completely turned their backs on God's Mercy will be those to suffer without hope, by their choice, and then finally be removed from the earth since they cannot live side by side with those who will live in the Divine Will. That is why now this Mercy must be spread to everyone. And unfortunately the Church for the most part sleeps through it all. And thus it too must be purified via the Warning. Much to answer for here as well as not fulfilling the requests of Fatima which has been a grievous offense against the faithful. God doesn't send His mother for no reason!

 

I have not read much of this thread but one thing I will say is that it is an actual grace to be able to understand what living in the DW is all about! I was introduced to this way of praying some years ago and couldn't understand it until Our Lady prepared me (unknowingly) to receive the grace. Up to then I was just arguing about it and dismissing it from a human point of view.
Now, when I meet people who are still dismissive of it I give them over to Our Lady for preparation........

I still find it overwhelming to think that you who are reading this are already benefitting from my prayers in the DW, because the more I try to pray in this way the more I am including everybody from Adam up to the last person to be created!

 

I should have left a link Daniel.
But dont think I was stealing the work for my own.
After I Emailed Unitypublishing last night ,it was Kelly who sent me the link this morning....

Mac,
Please read this.

http://www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/DivineWill.html

[FONT=Verdana, Sans-Serif]Kelly Salbato
National Directory of Emergency Services
​

 

We have genuine messages, which fail to mention Luisa and her new revelation, and quite a contradiction...



Sister Lucia also wrote in Lent 1943 to the Bishop of Gurza on this subject as follows: “This is the penance which the good Lord now asks: the sacrifice that every person has to impose upon himself is to lead a life of justice in the observance of His law. He requires that this way be made known to souls. For many, thinking that the word ‘penance’ means great austerities, not feeling in themselves the strength or generosity for these, lose heart and rest in a life of lukewarmness and sin. “Last Thursday, at midnight, while I was in the chapel, with my superior’s permission, Our Lord said to me, ‘The sacrifice required for every person is the fulfillment of his duties in life and the observance of My law. This is the penance that I now seek and require.’”http://www.fatimacrusader.com/truestory/pdf/tspg76.pdf



From the Divine Will ...Know that those who refuse to learn how to live in the Divine Will have placed an insurmountable roadblock before God's loving designs, preventing Him from accomplishing what He really intended to do in us from the beginning: to divinize all our acts right here on Earth in order to make us into other Jesus's, perfect images of Himself. https://www.divinewill.cc/divine_will_summary.htm

 

Nice to hear from you BC. Haven't seen you post for quite some time. I am trying to take baby steps every day in DW. I try to say little snippets about it to friends and family but I am not confident about it as I struggle myself to make it part of my life. The DW thread is really helpful as I don't have much time for extensive reading.

 

God touches each soul differently. Every saint has the same finish line but follows a separate path. Some people try to follow the path of a specific Saint but in the end one follows their own unique journey. St John of the Cross is different then St Teresa of Avila but they lead to the same place. The argument that two Saint can't be lead on a separate journey is nonsense. We couldn't handle all of Gods mystical knowledge therefore each Saint gets a little taste.

May Gods Will be Done

 

A message directed to me

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/new...hristians-become-spiritual-mummies-says-pope/

 

Yeah, when I read it I thought of you too Br Al.

 

I can say, that I sort of agree with you, just as I can say......that I sort of agree with Lusia writings or new age theorys or buddhism or mystical surfism or other eastern religions to a point! yes there is some truth in these beliefs or a meaning I can see in this theory or that statement which can mean the same in part, of what a Catholic believes.

However as a Catholic we have been blessed with the full truth and no more can be added!

Jesus came and said I am the truth!

Gods inordinant Love for humanity, had Him proving His Love by taking our human will and our flesh!

In Our Lords Church, the Catholic faith, we have the fullness of truth!

Jesus being the fullnes of truth means His teachings are the full revelations of truth which are made clear through the action of the Holy Spirit "acting inside the Church", however, these teachings can not be added to.


Jesus trully Man and trully God.

The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus indeed had a Human Will and a Divine Will; which were never in opposition but were also two natural operations indivisibly, inconvertibly, unfusedly and inseparably 'in our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, our true God! COUNCIL OF CONSTANTINOPLE III 680-681 (DS 556-59)


That is, the divine operation and the human operation, does what is proper to itself with the mutual participation of the other;

the Word doing what is of the Word and the flesh accomplishing what is of the flesh"

 

I see the same Truth in both of the quoted statements.

I am sure Jesus is quoted in the Gospels as saying the Kingdom of Heaven is already in our midst. And that was two thousand years ago. But it is our job to accept Gods' will (Kingdom) in our lives. Or... live in His Will.

When Jesus said, "Thy Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven." I understand this to say to us. In Heaven God's will is done in all things perfectly, and who would ever argue that Heaven is not the best of all places anyone would want to live.
If we take these same words "Thy Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven." and address them to Jesus, we are asking Jesus, the second person of the Blessed Trinity to take care of everything on earth as the Father takes care of everything in Heaven. Isn't that part of Jesus mission until all things are under His feet when the Keys will be handed over to God the Father. ??

On much reflection I am beginning to think, we will all have a different understanding of Eucharistic Jesus after the Warning/Illumination. We will be inspired as to His real presence in Holy Eucharist, and what we know by Faith now will become a conviction that I believe will be overwhelming for us.

I take some of the writings used from Luisa Picaretta with caution; because I have read there are badly translated versions out there, and it would not do God a just service to make decisions on our own , in case we have been misinformed. Caution not criticism would be the safest argument it seems to me.

 

Julia,
My opinion is that after illumination one will still have to make a choice for Christianity. Once we see all our sins, all the sins we caused and all the world sins. It will be devastating. But like a flash we will go back to normal. Then we will have to seek and find answers. God is not forcing us to him. It is one of His last gifts to man. Some that have faith will run back to Catholic Church, some will gradually forget and return to there everyday life, others will deny saying it was a mass hallucination, some will create a scientific term and say are minds are evolving and finally some won't care and continue their evil ways.

Christianity has no easy way out. God loves us so much we all have to make the choice. God cannot force His way on us. Illumination will be one of His last warnings.

Brother al

 

Daniel,
Thank you for your kind response,

I think all Catholics and even most people of other christian faiths believe..............

When the Church teaches that Public Revelation itself is complete, that does not imply that all of the things referred to in Public Revelation has already been fulfilled. Far from it, of course! We still await so much that is spoken of in Scripture.

Yes Of course, we are all awaiting the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary and we are all awaiting the fulfillment of St Johns Revelations as well as the second coming of Christ.

I can only say that as a people of God we must be very careful with how we interpret New teachings; that in my book, walk a very fine line on the remote outskirts of the Catholic faith, where if a wrong footed step is taken one can fall off the preverbal cliff.

I prefer to remain in the bosom of the teachings of Our Lords Catholic faith where it is safe! and not court, any potential danger.

I also believe Our Lord deliberatly made His Church a safe place, so we don't have to flirt with danger!

Matthew 6:34 So do not worry about tomorrow: tomorrow will take care of itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.'

I hope you understand my position and my analogies.

God Bless you and all of us on our journey home.

 

F

Firstly, I want to thank you for starting this thread. Every post, on both sides, has helped illuminate my understanding.
I see so much wisdom in this post of yours. Not every devotion or way is for every soul. And probably some devotions would be dangerous for some souls, in a similar way some people become addicted to things others find inocuous.
We are all so different, with vulnerabilities and strengths peculiar to ourselves. Even the timing of acquiring certain knowledge can have a greater impact than the actusl knowledge itself.

Praise be to God for tailoring all graces for all souls.

 

Thanks Josephite; nothing I can disagree with there. All I'd add is to remember that the line we are called to walk; while it is indeed (as you beautifully say) a thin one, is still nevertheless a balance; that is, a "golden mean" between the extremes of, on the one hand, recklessness (which you here speak of avoiding) and on the other hand, paralysis. Sticking only with what we can know with the certainty of the Deposit of Faith as Magisterially defined by the Church is indeed safe, but is it really what God desires of us? That would entail dismissing all private revelation (for even a fully approved private revelation does not enter into the Deposit of Faith): Fatima, the Rosary, O.L. Guadalupe, Sacred/Immaculate Heart devotion, the Divine Mercy of St. Faustina, etc. I know there is a large number of Catholics who will at least take it one step further and say that they'll follow private revelation but only go with what is fully approved, but the same question still applies: is this really what God desires of us? If no one followed Private Revelations before they were approved; then there would be no approved private revelations (the Church only bothers investigating after there is a significant lay following). No one would have even showed up for the greatest public miracle since Moses lead Egypt through the red sea (that is, the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima). Safety is indeed a legitimate concern. Missing out on extraordinary graces due to an excess caution also is.

God bless you!!

 

The answer: Yes. This is really what God desires of us. Since this is what the Church requires, God does not go beyond the Church's rules. Public revelation is what the Church requires of us, all that the Church requires of us; therefore, it is what God desires of us.

I find Luisa interesting but troubling in the details. I have limited time in this life, and choose to spend it doing other things than pondering her work. I would never suggest to anyone that there is a problem with that. I've gone to Medjugorje; I would never suggest someone's spiritual life is lacking if they did not make that journey.

I fear some people may get the very mistaken impression that they are going against God's desire/will for them if they aren't sufficiently up on whatever private revelation is being promoted. Not so.