I also want to point out that the same church that said there is NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CHURCH EVER......said after VII that there is salvation for others outside of the church......speaking mainly of Protestants here who are baptized. Although it was worded in a way that didn't go against the previous thoughts on this. My point is that certain teachings of the church have evolved over time. They do not change dramatically so to speak but the church in the last 100 yrs has seen that everything is not just a CUT AND DRY BLACK AND WHITE issue. Abortion ....YES ......always is evil but this discussion is about ALL CONTRACEPTION ......is it always evil when dealing with diseases and many types of marital issues.
Of course, we human make mistakes and that is why Christ instituted the tribunal of mercy of the confessional box for us sinners. You are a good person doing your best and God is your loving Father. But two wrongs never make a right. The Church cannot and will not change its stance on contraception because contraception is and of itself intrinsically evil. The marital act is both procreative and unitive in its very essence and nature - it is when humans divorce the two that denies the truth of the very act and indeed the very act becomes a lie. No one judges another by stating a truth. So in stating the truth about contraception I do not judge you or your situation. God is the only one who can judge. Unfortunately, we live in an ungodly age of darkness when many minds are dimmed to the truth of the Gospel. Many people live selfish lives according to the urges of the flesh and not in the spirit of God. These people need conversion and our sacrifices and prayers. Rosary going up!!
DO YOU THEN BELIEVE THAT IF YOU EAT MEAT ON FRIDAY OTHER THAN AT LENT .....THAT YOU ARE GOING TO HELL if UNCONFESSED? THE CHURCH TAUGHT IT WAS ALWAYS A MORTAL SIN. But after VII it was overlooked and not given importance anymore. THIS WAS A STRICT TEACHING IN THE CHURCH. Men and women who lived over 100 yrs ago ......TRULY BELEVED THEY WERE GOING TO HELL IF THEY BROKE THAT RULE. NOW.......ANY PRIEST TODAY or BISHOP or CARDINAL WILL TELL YOU THAT YOU WILL NOT GO TO HELL but that you should TRY and adhere.
This teaching on eating meat on Fridays all year through was considered to be very serious and a MORTAL sin and if unrepented .....would lead to hell. The point is that the church changes it's teaching in ways over time. In some instances ...like this dietary rule and on salvation outside the church......the church changed its teaching dramatically. Would you call this change evil?
I would also like to add that the gospel does not teach about birth control on issues of life threatening issues or communicable diseases passed to children. Only in the old testament is this addressed by ONAN .....which is now today called ONANISM ......which is the spilling of mans seed. But even in the old testament this killing of ONAN has been disputed by many as to the reasons WHY onan was killed by GOD. Was it his act spilling of his seed or because he refused to listen to GOD in an order that GOD gave him.?
I know someone in a very similar situation to yours, and I believe that the Church could and should make a better effort to address such situations. As far as I know, although I could be mistaken, in cases where a married couple both fall away from the faith and one of them returns to the church while the other persists in practising ABC the spouse who has returned to the Church is permitted to receive the sacraments. In cases such as yours, the issue of abortifacient pills could be avoided by the husband having a vasectomy. The Zika virus issue is different because it isn't a matter of life and death. Rather, it is about the prevention of the birth of disabled children and opens a pandora's box of problems about the value of human life.
Bravo, Sparrows, for bravely telling us of your situation. You will not get much sympathy from the traditionalists but your decisions are, I believe, absolutely in keeping with your faith. I have no doubt that Pope Francis would support your position but more importantly, I am convinced Jesus IS happy with your belief and practice. I think that your biggest temptation will be to judge those who will criticize you. They are convinced that they are right and that Pope Francis is a bad pope. They are choosing to listen to the devil's whispers instead of the Holy Spirit. It is their choice and the freedom God gives to all of us.
Of course this is a sensitive pastoral situation but from the sounds of it it is your husband who may need therapy. The priest has failed in his pastoral duty towards you and for that he will have to answer before the supreme tribunal of almighty God. There are aspects of your story that can mitigate the guilt imputed to you bit nevertheless it is your conscience that must be reconciled to the truth. NFP is not the terrible burden some make it out to be. Surely your husband loves you for more reasons than the sexual service you provide him. It is this absolutising the sexual value above all others that has been disastrous for many married relationships.
Another point we need remember is that Christ's blood has not gone anemic. it is He who provides the Grace for us to live our lives in accordance with his holy law. This is a point that has unfortunately been left to the way side in recent debates on the Church's teaching. Grace gives us the power to do that which we could otherwise never do. This is the whole point of the coming of Christ. We are not simply left to "heroic" human virtue
I have just read these posts and instead of stomping over old ground I would suggest you get yourself a good book or two on the Catholic faith. Start with the catechism and I'm sure others will recommend their favourites. The catechism does a fairly goid job explaining what mortal sin is and may help your confusion. Also look at the distinction between formal and material evil and the various levels of Co operation with same.
One cannot directly do evil that good may come from it. No intention however noble can make an act that is evil by virtue of its very nature a morally licit choice. The whole principle of double effect is built around this premise.
Hello forum members....after a hearty night of sleep I would like to offer my apologies to all members. I was a bit hasty and should not have written my two posts....I may not be the most theologically smart of all of you....I am doing my best to keep up with things. I am very prayerful...I will give you that. I pray my rosary every morning and try to go to adoration and mass as often as possible. I am discerning third order Carmel (this is my discernment year in my group).....I pray the divine mercy chaplet daily....I suppose I am a worker bee in the Catholic hive...I was raised 12 years in Catholic schools in the 60's when they were taught by the religious and I know my basic catechism. I can't quote from the bible or the catechism. I try to do corporal works of mercy daily in my nursing career.....I fall short everyone. Last night I fell short. I understand everyone wants to get to the bottom of what the Holy Father really said and I admire your tenacity in defending the faith. But like Potato Sack said (Cathy), I am quiet, calm and pray like a crazy woman when the stuff hits the fan. We all have different approaches to things. Little Me and Brian K, you have your approaches and I have mine. My apologies to you if I offended you. Please forgive me.
To all, please pray the timely Collect from today's liturgy for the Feast of Chair of Peter, Apostle: Grant, we pray, almighty God, that no tempests may disturb us, for you have set us fast on the rock of the Apostle Peter's confession of faith. Through our Lord Jesus Christ, your Son, who lives and reigns with you in the unity of the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever. Amen. AMEN!!
As I mentioned before once I knew for certain that that Pope was actually saying it may be ok in extreme cases that contraception was an option, I was not ok with this. Contraception is NEVER and option...period. Many of you know that my first child had a severe neurological disorder. Ever day until her death was a struggle but every day without her is a day I struggle with and wish I could have just one day with her again. God has a plan for all people He decides to create. It is not up to us to decide on or interfere with this plan. Whether we have our children for 1 hour or thousands there is a purpose for all. In even one hour of life, a parent is filled with that joy of life and then the suffering but yet that suffering has great graces and meaning for our lives and the lives of others touched by that life. I really wish the Pope would come out and retract what he said because I don't think he realizes what he is saying here. Further more, I am troubled by the Catholic media who is covering this up. Just today I was listening to Catholic radio and they were talking about this incident but all they ever mention is what he said about the abortion part and do not address the contraception part. This is wrong to me and needs to be addressed. I am proudly a "Pollyanna". I do give people the benefit of the doubt and try to see the good first, but I am not a Pollyanna when the truth is known. Then we must stand by our principals. I am troubled by this comment but refuse to see a darker more sinister agenda because I am a Pollyanna and I trust in the direction the Lord is taking us and the church and trust that he will bring light to all the dark corners on His schedule. What else can we do but trust and surrender all our troubled feelings to the Lord. Bring them to the cross. If I am wrong there then I will come forward and admit I am wrong. Being a Pollyanna should not be used in a derogative way though. We are all different. The world needs the Pollyanna as much as it needs all other types.
I’m an “active” blogger here and over at TNRS. As most have you have figured out I’m also an old curmudgeon-n- renegade Catholic or perhaps just an old black sheepdog that you might get a glimpse of as I circle the “camp fire”. Anyway! I’m no expert on The Magisterium nor do I want to be! They pay people Big-Bucks to be experts and you can watch them daily on EWTN. I’ll just keep the simple Faith that was handed down to me by my folks and the good Sisters pre-Vatican II. On both of these sites I see a bunch of chatter about this and that and I find much of it interesting but ….. It could be that my “mission” is to try to keep people focused on that “Here-n-Now”. I’m going deaf but I’m hearing the thunder of “The Devil’s Herd” coming our way! I thinks it’s too late to do much about what’s going on in Rome, London, Paris or DC. So much of what I see people getting worked-up about might well become matters of no consequence ... soon!? Oh! I’ll vote this November and put in my Two Cents on the Blogosphere but I’m spending more-n-more time cleaning off the “Cosmoline” and taking stock of my larder …. and gently encouraging my Family/Friends to do likewise …… and trying to figure out what The Lord wants me to do in The Storm!!?? GOD GUIDE AND SAVE ALL HERE!!
I think you should go and re read his posts, from Jan 25 he states "i'm sent to be a sort of sherpa, a guide through treacherous times, to help encourage and rally people to endure – to trust that rescue will come. I was not given mystical wisdom in some easy, quiet, gentle way."
In case anyone missed it among all the posts on this thread, I'm just posting a link to the excellent Amy Welborn piece that MotherSuperior7 quoted in full in earlier posts https://amywelborn.wordpress.com/2016/02/21/against-popesplaining/ I will be adding this lady's blog to my favourites.
Lately I've been praying for equanimity - e·qua·nim·i·ty ˌekwəˈnimədē/ noun mental calmness, composure, and evenness of temper, especially in a difficult situation. What a wonderful gift and habit for life in the midst of this storm!
Kat; I think I've read everything he's written. He speaks very little about angelic visitations, and very much about manning our own post, acknowledging God, taking the next right step, and being a sign of hope for others. I would guess there are many on this forum who have had angelic visitations, locutions and/or infusion of knowledge. None of us are here to convince others of the veracity of our spiritual experiences, but to hearten each other on the narrow path. I believe we all have our assignments for this time; Charlie has his, and so do I. If any here do not know their assignment, take it to prayer and it will surely be made known.
I think Charlie wrote last year that if you were going to run about getting involved in other people's business and losing your wits as the storm rages, then you'll just be a danger to yourself and worse yet, to others around you. Equanimity. Great word! We each need to man our own station as God has given to us. Keep your head down and take one step at a time and concentrate on doing your task well. If each of us can do that, we can keep our composure when things really get bad and literally help save lives. But if instead we are running around losing our composure about what Pope Francis said in an answer on the plane how are we going to keep it together when, as Crewdog points out, the devil's herd arrives at our doorstep?
