The Warning, Or Illumination Of Conscience

Brian,

You will recall that I raised this issue with you in posts 78 and 79 of my thread here: http://motheofgod.com/threads/evil-empire-or-russia-consecrated.6827/page-4

I asked you to provide a transcript or a primary source of this alleged interview with Ratzinger and I am still waiting.

Plus, the very words of Ratzinger you cite can be used to disprove your own argument, when Ratzinger tells Gruner to "conform himself to the magisterium of the Church, recognizing that the Consecration of Russia is done according to the will of the Madonna..."

The fact is that this alleged interview with Ratzinger could be interpreted multiple ways, and we need to see a primary source, an official transcript. I am still waiting for that from you. Once we have a full, official transcript of this alleged interview, we will be able to interpret the context.

It doesn't matter what Mr. Ferrara or Father Gruner thinks on this matter of the Consecration. What matters is what the Church authorities have said and what Sister Lucia herself has said in documented interviews with Father Fox and Cardinal Bertone.

 

But Pope Benedict said Cardinal Bertone has deceived himself . And therefore you.

"Fatima is all in the past." Cardinal Sodano

Tarcisio Bertone, ....
The decision of His Holiness Pope John Paul II to make public the third part of the “secret” of Fatima brings to an end a period of history marked by tragic human lust for power and evil, yet pervaded by the merciful love of God and the watchful care of the Mother of Jesus and of the Church.



Pope Benedict XVI said on May 13, 2010: "He deceives himself who thinks the prophetic mission of Fatima is concluded."

 

If Our Lady asked that all the Bishops in the world participate in the Consecration of Russia, would that also mean that the Orthodox Bishops be included as well? Was this even possible in 1984 or now?

 

I put in several calls and sent several emails at the time but did not hear back. Regardless, I'm satisfied its true and have no reason to believe it was made up out of thin air.

If you'd like to disprove it, be my guest.

 

This is a sick joke. Honestly, an end to human lust for power and evil???

Tarcisio Bertone, ....
The decision of His Holiness Pope John Paul II to make public the third part of the “secret” of Fatima brings to an end a period of history marked by tragic human lust for power and evil, yet pervaded by the merciful love of God and the watchful care of the Mother of Jesus and of the Church.

 

First, you reject the words because you do not accept the validity of the video provided, then you use a partial quotation to undermine the position.

Please note the rest of the quote:

"He could make this proposal [i.e., the Consecration of Russia] but he should also be capable of being sufficiently generous to accept that the Magisterium has her reasons to not do it immediately, but to wait a little, and above all for the maturation of the process [of canonization] of the three shepherds."

This is obviously future tense.

I don't desire to debate this point. Anyone who wants to argue the Consecration has been done must then prove Russia has been converted, the Triumph has occurred and we're experiencing an Era of Peace. If that is your position I suggest reading the headlines to disabuse yourself of such a notion.

 

I am confused . com.

I thought Our Lady of Fatima asked us to stop offending Our Lord. I think in a nutshell that means keep the 10 Commandments.

Then I thought Our Lady of Fatima asked us to practice the devotion of five First Saturdays; First Saturday Confession, Communion, Rosary and 15 minutes meditation on Rosary Mysteries in atonement for sins and outrages against Blessed Mother.

I did not ever hear Our Lady of Fatima asked US to Consecrate Russia to her Immaculate Heart, was it not the Holy Father who was requested to make the Consecration.

Why am I never finding incredibly long posts about the failure of the laity to practice the five First Saturdays as Our Lady requested. How come there are no Videos with Theologians, Lawyers, Bishops et al making great well attended speeches about why we need to get our brown scapula's donned, get started in response to Our Lady's request and leave the Holy Father and the Magisterium to God.

We are failing in our part of the bargain, why do we gorge ourselves on what we feel the Pope should do.

If 3 junior school children got it. Why can't the rest of us.

 

Amen sista! Keep it simple and just do what SHE requested of US.....First Five Saturdays, Rosary, Frequent Reception of Sacraments, Brown Scapular....

 

Intresting point, Great question.

Fr Apostoli answering a question on all the Bishops not present or participated in the consecration on Sunday Night Prime answered recently ... Jesus had one disciple stand below His Cross, the rest fled. Doubters of the consecration argue a few Bishops didn't fufill their duty so the consecration is invalid...

Jansenism is alive and well with the LeFeber movement

 

confused.com...

 

The video in your link is the most convincing I have seen. Now I have my doubts. At the same time, the children of Fatima were ever obedient to the Church, and I'm inclined to follow their example. We have to make allowances for diplomatic and inter-religious constraints on the Pope. There's the Russian Orthodox Church to be considered. Maybe the Hierarchy have some lingering doubts about the apparition's authenticity and are simply afraid. Anyway, if Our Lady is not happy, her Son will see that we all do what she asked for.

Some of what I have read from the conspiracy theorists is way OTT and bordering on the scurrilous, which I don't think would please Our Lady. How often do they remind us about the Five Saturdays when they complain about the consecration and the real content of the third secret? I had forgotten all about the Five Saturdays until I read about it on this forum.

I have never been to Fatima. No point trying to get there for the centenary but I might look into taking a short trip sometime this year.

P.S. to Infant Jesus of Prague: I think some of the problem is that the Russian Orthodox would consider it an insult that they need to be converted. They are very proud of their Apostolic succession.

 

Indeed. What better way to build ecumenical bridges with our Eastern Lung of the Church, which is so powerfully devoted to preserving the beauty of their Divine Liturgy and defending their Holy Eucharist from profanation, than to admit a pro-homosexual female Lutheran "bishop" to our Holy Eucharist, and change the Holy Thursday celebration of the founding of our Sacred Priesthood to include those who can never be priests?
View attachment 4172

 

if im not mistaken, the Russian Orthodox have valid succession, and Sacraments.

Careful on the videos posted here, Ferara (sp) from Brian k, hes a mouth piece for the remnant newspaper , supports the excommunicated Arch Bishop Lefeb. Hes from NJ, were I grew up. When I used to attend the Tridentine Mass in Trenton Diocese, 2 men who were working on me to become sspx were friends, close friends of Mr Ferara... buyer beware
Follow the Blue Army/ World Apostolate of Fatima... only Fatima group with Vatican approval of the Fatima message.

 

mmm 'sista', point taken, but if The President of a country was advised that certain specific course of action had to be taken to avoid war do you not think it incumbent on the electorate to protest until that course, not an alternative, was taken.

 

I am convinced God will accomplish what He set out to do through the apparitions at Fatima with or without the full commitment and co operation of the Hierarchy and or the Laity.

The thing that concerns me most is that this will happen either through the doors of Mercy (Our Lady's way) or through the doors of Justice (Wars, persecutions, weather upheaval, economic difficulties etc).

This year of Mercy is more important than anything in my living memory. Jesus, I trust in Thee.

 

Im reading some ask, what Pope has said the consecration is done? as this is a proof JP2 and Lucias confirmation Heaven accepted is null and void

So, turn the table, show me a Papal statement the consecration of Russia is not done...
I searched as well... No results

 

Yes, the Orthodox do have valid sacraments through Apostolic succession. That's the reason any suggestion that Russia requires conversion to Roman Catholicism is a touchy subject. Now, had the consecration been done at the height of the Communist era, they would have had little grounds for complaining that Our Lady was offended by the Soviet brand of atheism. The longer it dragged on, the more problematic it became. At least, that's how I understand it.

With regard to schismatic groups, my bottom line is that there is only one true Church. For all that I gripe about some of our Bishops, I see no sense in cutting myself adrift. I had started the Five Saturdays but missed one, so have to begin again in February. Maybe Our Lady will surprise us if we all do our bit.

 

View attachment 4174

 

Just to clarify, No message from our Lady of Fatima says Russian Orthodox will convert to Catholicism, But Russia will be converted. SSPX followers believe conversion is to Catholicism...Our Lady never said such

Christian Faith in Russia is alive as we speek

 

Guess the topic was due for another round ay IJoP.