Sign after sign after sign...

I will go with choice #3, which is there is something wrong with the world and there has been for more than a few decades. But to read the majority of posts here, one would think it is pope francis alone and these issues are new and if I am a fallen away catholic trying to find my way back and I read some of the threads here...one might have a great chance at falling back away. I feel the result of the constant chipping away at pope francis can lead to an erosion of ones faith. To me, that is not really defending the faith.

 

Lutherans

I hear what you are saying PS.
But for those returning to the Faith, what do they think the Faith is?
Do they think that Lutherans can receive communion?
Are they returning because they think those in adultery can receive?
Are they in the majority of Catholics who think gay marriage should be accepted?

That is not the Catholic Faith.
Should we bring people in with a false impression of what the Faith is?
That type of convert only adds to the problem.
They would not be converts at all.

 

I am not sure how you can interpret my sentence you quoted as condenscending, but sorry if you did. And I actually did not assume you were not already praying or making sacrifices. But if you are as upset as you seem to be by your posts, you might want to consider praying more. That is what I do when I am upset with something so it is a sincere suggestion.

Of course I have concerns you and others have raised about our faith. But the constant barrage of related articles and somewhat related articles and articles 2 years old presented as if current news is a bit much. And as I said in an earlier post, the constant dinging of the pope who inherited a huge mess does not help the situation. But prayer and fasting does, which I suggest we all do a bit more of.

 

I don't think the average convert is really concerned about lutherans receiving or adulterers receiving...but even if they were...what do you mean by "that type of convert"? I guess that would be the type of convert I was since when I first started to come back to the faith I was pro-choice. But God of course set me straight over time. God will do the same with those who may have mis-conceptions about our faith due to our church leaders. To say "they would not be converts at all" tells me you don't think it is God who converts people. For all the pope francis errors that have been posted here, you have to say he opened the door a crack to God for more sinners than many other church leaders, as he is reaching out to sinners like no other pope in my lifetime, and God does the rest, does He not? That's my opinion anyway.

 

Well said Potatosack.

 

All I can say at the moment on this matter is that I am so happy to have the Faith at this time when we have such a wonderful Pope. What would concern me deeply is if the next Pope had a mindset like Brian and his friends. I would seriously worry about the future of the Church. Pope Francis' approach to the Lutherans and his attitude to their reception of the Eucharist is, I am sure, an approach that makes Jesus happy.

 

Most here would try to say he never intended Lutherans to receive.
At least you can see the truth.

 

I do think God converts sinners.


It just seems to me to try to get converts through false pretenses ...ie Lets get Lutherans' in 'by admitting them to communion while they do not believe in the real Presence is wrong.
Suggesting to the divorced and remarried they can receive is wrong.
That is not a door of mercy. That is a door of Diabolical disorientation.

The door of mercy has always been open. And it wasnt opened by Pope Francis.

 

I don't honostly think the pope has an agenda to get lutherans in or get whoever in by letting them receive the eucharist. And you have taken one quote about the divorced and re-married that could be interpreted in many different ways and keep throwing it out there with your own interpretation to justify your constant negative posts about the pope. I understand posting a few times on the subject to get your opinion and feelings expressed, but continuously is over the top. It is the constant negativity toward the pope that can erode one's faith and confidence in God that is a concern for me.

 

Signs....

This is sacrilege and scandal. This is heresy. This was coordinated by the pope. It can't be spun. No mental gymnastics or emotional appeals to Mercy can excuse this. This is an attack on Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. Are you simply going to attack those pointing out these grave issues or are you going to actually wake up and face the reality around you?

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/lutherans-receive-communion-at-vatican-after-meeting-with-pope-report

"After an audience with the pope, the delegation was present at a celebration of the Catholic mass. According to a Lutheran bishop who was present, at the time of communion the non-Catholics placed their right hands on their left shoulders, a traditional way of indicating that they were ineligible to receive the Eucharist. However, the celebrating priests insisted on giving them communion.

"Lutheran bishop Samuel Salmi told Kotimaa 24 that “I myself accepted it [Holy Communion].” He added that “this was not a coincidence,” and nor was it a coincidence when last year the pope seemed to accept the notion of a Lutheran woman receiving communion with her Catholic husband."

 

Signs....this was deliberate and coordinated at the top.

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/lutheran-group-reportedly-given-holy-communion-in-st.-peters-basilica
Lutheran Group Reportedly Given Holy Communion in St. Peter's Basilica
A Lutheran group from Finland, led by their bishop, Samuel Salmi of Oulu, reportedly received Holy Communion in St Peter’s basilica this week, despite indicating to the priests present that they were ineligible to do so.

According to Finnish news agency Kotimaa, and reported here in Estonian, the priests celebrating the Mass were aware that they were Lutherans.

The report said that at the time of Communion, the Finnish Lutherans put their right hand on their left shoulder to show they could not receive the Eucharist and wanted to receive a blessing instead.

The Finnish Lutheran bishop said the priests distributing Communion ignored the sign and offered the Lutherans Communion anyway. The bishop also received the Eucharist.

The report said the youth choir from Finland sung at the Mass, and Bishop Salmi was asked to greet those present on behalf of the Finnish Lutherans. So there was no doubt who they were.

Bishop Salmi said Pope Francis was not present at the Mass, but said the Pope had repeatedly indicated he would like to develop unity between different denominations. The bishop, who in 2011 said homosexuals should have "full rights" in the Lutheran church, also told the news agency that Pope Francis has theological enemies in the Vatican and so may be limited in how freely he can speak.

In November, the Pope said that a Lutheran woman married to a Catholic should "talk to the Lord" before receiving Holy Communion, although Francis himself did not give her permission to do so.

The Pope's words were understood by Rome's Lutheran community to mean that Lutherans could receive Holy Communion, in accordance with their conscience, although such a reading was later refuted by Cardinal Gerhard Müller, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

 

This is disturbing.

Canon 844 of the Catholic Church’s Code of Canon Law only permits the Eucharist to be given to Catholics in the state of grace, except in cases of non-Catholics who request communion and who are from churches that are approved by the Holy See as holding the same faith as Catholics regarding communion. Lutherans have traditionally been seen as not holding to the same faith as Catholics on the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

What the heck is going on?

 

The God of surprises. SURPRISE!!

 

Signs....

And there's no way Cardinal Sarah would have willingly promulgated this today. Pope JPII and Pope BXVI were clear that this was not acceptable.

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/new...ens-holy-thursday-foot-washing-rite-to-women/

 

Wow

Wow.

This is not right.

I'm all for opening dialogue and bringing them back into the fold. But this is not right at all.

 

I read somewhere that the original dispute between Luther and the Catholic Church and the statement he published in his day listing what he objected to was discussed and resolved in recent years. It appears the only thing left to do is get the news out to the general Lutheran believers, that the cause of excommunication had been resolved.

Of course as far as actually believing in the Real presence, we have to admit many so called Catholics have long since lost Faith in the Real presence in Holy Eucharist. I think a lot see Eucharist as a symbol nowadays; otherwise there would be a lot more silence in our Churches. Just a thought.

 

So we Must Pray and hope and not worry, Gods Will be done.

God will give us strength.

Lord Have Mercy.
Christ have Mercy.
Lord Have Mercy.

 

"SIGNS"

“A nation that kills its children has no future.”

http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=adf1a83154acea60d091b413c&id=af035c6baf&e=3b7c597bb1

"These 7 Actresses are Celebrating Killing Babies in Abortions"

http://www.lifenews.com/2016/01/21/...-are-celebrating-killing-babies-in-abortions/

GOD SAVE ALL HERE!!

 

God have mercy on us.