Bart, I will pray for the Holy Spirit to immerse you in His joy, peace, and wisdom. Safe in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!
Joe Crow? Hello! I was wondering who Aloysius was, seemed familiar somehow... I'm glad you are back, I missed you.
Thanks Mario. I'm at a fantastic Catholic conference this weekend and the following phrase was part of a talk last night. It has stuck with me since and I feel it must be repeated here: "Where there is no hatred of heresy, there is no holiness." Any Catholic group that is willing to permit the free expression of heresy, or persecute those defending the Faith and orthodoxy, in order to establish some semblance of peace, will attain neither true peace nor holiness.
Thank you Mother and thank you Padraig. I had unfriended all the Pope haters and bashers a month ago on Facebook because I just did not want to see all their "crap" spewed over my page any more. It is one thing to disagree with what the pope says or get angry at what he did not say but there is a fine line to where many of these conversations dance up to and eventually cross. That fine line is anti-pope or antichrist talk. I don't see anything wrong with defending tradition but I do have a great unease about attacking the pope always. "Oh Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee. And for those who do not have recourse to thee, especially the enemies of Holy Mother Church!" Amen.
Brian, I have known who you are since my days back with Roman Catholic Faithful and the fight against pedophilia in the church. I have always admired your orthodoxy, especially at a time when we had NO friends or help among the catholic community. I believe that fight changed us forever and I am not sure that I am still fighting that "last fight". I know with the things I discovered I will never be the same and neither will my "blind" faith in the human aspects of the church I love and was willing to die for (as I am sure you were). As the late Fr Malachi Martin told me, you are fighting against principalities and you will never get rid of the "stench" on you. God bless and good luck, maybe it is time to stop fighting the last "war" for me.
Thanks Pinecone Jill Interesting times. Hope your move is going well. Just waiting for more news on the predicted economic collapse. From what I can see on non religous sites everyone thinks its inevitable. Some are even saying it is happening or on the point of happening. Things should become clearer soon. We have just turned our clocks on one hour so I better get going. Look forward to your comments. Joe Cro
There is a world of difference between well reasoned critique and open organised attacks, especially by those with a Sedevacantist agenda. I understand that difference and will respect it. 'The term "sedevacantism" is derived from the Latin phrase sede vacante, which literally means "the seat being vacant".[3] The phrase is commonly used to refer specifically to a vacancy of the Holy See from the death or resignation of a pope to the election of his successor. "Sedevacantism" as a term in English appears to date from the 1980s, though the movement itself is older.[4]' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedevacantism
I also understand that there may be a few, very few, but they are there who cling to false seerers such as , 'Maria Divine Mercy', who claim that the Pope is the anti Christ or not the true Pope, I have them in my sights as well...
Sedevacantism owes its origins to the rejection of the theological and disciplinary changes implemented following the Second Vatican Council (1962–65).[7] Sedevacantists reject this Council, on the basis of its documents on ecumenism and religious liberty, among others, which they see as contradicting the traditional teachings of the Catholic Church and as denying the unique mission of Catholicism as the one true religion, outside of which there is no salvation.[citation needed] They also say that new disciplinary norms, such as the Mass of Paul VI, promulgated on 3 April 1969, undermine or conflict with the historical Catholic faith and are deemed heresies.[8] They conclude, on the basis of their rejection of the revised Mass rite and of postconciliar Church teaching as false, that the popes involved are false also.[1] 'This is a minority position among traditionalist Catholics[2][9] and a highly divisive one,[1][2] so that many who hold it prefer to say nothing of their view,[1] while other sedevacantists have accepted Episcopal Consecrations from sources such as Archbishop Pierre Martin Ngô Đình Thục.[2] Traditionalist Catholics other than sedevacantists recognize as legitimate the line of Popes leading to Pope Francis.[10] Some of them hold that one or more of the most recent popes have held and taught unorthodox beliefs, but do not go so far as to say that they have been formal heretics or have been widely and publicly judged to be heretics. Sedevacantists, on the other hand, claim that the infallible Magisterium of the Catholic Church could not have decreed the changes made in the name of the Second Vatican Council, and conclude that those who issued these changes could not have been acting with the authority of the Catholic Church.[11] Accordingly, they hold that Pope Paul VI and his successors left the true Catholic Church and thus lost legitimate authority in the Church. A formal heretic, they say, cannot be the Catholic pope.[12] Sedevacantists defend their position using numerous arguments, including that particular provisions of canon law prevent a heretic from being elected or remaining as pope. Paul IV's 1559 bull, Cum ex apostolatus officio, stipulated that a heretic cannot be elected pope, while Canon 188.4 of the 1917 Code of Canon Law provides that a cleric who publicly defects from the Catholic faith automatically loses any office he had held in the Church. A number of writers have engaged sedevacantists in debate on some of these points. Theologian Brian Harrison has argued that Pius XII's conclave legislation permitted excommunicated cardinals to attend, from which he argues that they could also be legitimately elected. Opponents of Harrison have argued that a phrase in Pius XII's legislation, "Cardinals who have been deposed or who have resigned, however, are barred and may not be reinstated even for the purpose of voting", though it speaks of someone deposed or resigned from the cardinalate, not of someone who may have incurred automatic excommunication but has not been officially declared excommunicated, means that, even if someone is permitted to attend, that does not automatically translate into electability.[citation needed]'
There is however a new form of Sedevacantism which claims that Pope Bendict is still Pope and Francis is not Pope. This is as bad as the other kind. It is Schismatic.
Good. We should all have ZERO tolerance of false prophets, especially those for which the Church has spoken. MDM was easily discernible and no faithful Catholic should have ever fallen for her. Sedevacantism. Ugh. I've only personally met three. One was Mel Gibson's father's pastor here in PA. There's a reason Mel Gibson did the movie "Conspiracy Theory." At times it seemed autobiographical.
What a battle we're in. My child who is a senior at our state university texted me last night: "The Pope's visit was necessary. He reminded us what topics are universal and shouldn't be polarized. Caring for the disenfranchised, caring for our environment, and trying to better our lives. That dude from Fox News said it best. Any conservative who is trying to challenge his (Francis) meaning doesn't understand his message. Great visit. Smart guy." God is working on the youth, liberals by means of the holy Father's visit but when I read his "conservative" correction, I texted back: "He connected the liberal approved subjects always gently with the rejected Truths in both the speech before Congress and the U.N. Example: Man must respect life from the beginning (conception) to the end of life and in the next sentence. Capital punishment is no good, wrong, a liberal view. Smart guy."
I don't know anyone who actually believes that. However there are some who, while recognizing Pope Francis as pope, out of legitimate concern that the upcoming Synod may embrace heterodoxy, have extended that theory for future consideration. The Faithful would then have an understanding of the situation and would not despair, in the unlikely case the progressives prevail next month. The problem with advancing that theory is that some folks might misinterpret it or upset the Faithful simply for ruminating on the subject, an offense against prudence and a possible source of scandal. Fortunately if that crazy rare individual exists today who thinks BXVI is still pope, he would not be a sedevacantist, because in his opinion the chair would not be empty. He would believe there is a pope and an anti-pope. Not impossible, because it's happened so many times in history, but not at all very likely.
I don't know if anyone is interested in hearing this. But I remember back in the 70's and 80's when the Latin Mass debate was as hot as charcoal. I was very scared by it all. I mean to the point of wondering if we were in a schism. We had a parish Priest who asked our congregation if we could please attend the parish Holy Mass, as this was faithful to Rome and Holy Father. He said those who felt the Latin Mass was the only True Mass, could if they felt that strongly go also to the Latin Mass; but it was important to stay faithful to Holy Father. I went to see the Priest in charge of those who said Latin Mass and asked him what was going on. He told me the Catholic Church was on the high road to hell, and we all needed to go to the True Latin Mass. I need not tell you how utterly terrified I was, with a young family and a husband who had no been brought up as a practising Catholic. In utter desperation, not knowing what was the right thing to do in Gods' eyes. I got the Bible out and opened it randomly to try and find some direction; because I was so utterly terrified about what was going on. I found, or should I say the Lord opened the Letter of Jude for me and verses 8, 9 and 10 restored my peace totally. For the very simple reason that Saint Jude speaks about Saint Michael when he engaged in argument with the devil about the corpse of Moses. His strongest language was "Let the Lord correct you." I straight away recognised in this the charity and kindness with which our Parish Priest addressed the problem which surfaced in our parish over the Latin Mass. I also realised with horror the strong scary threat of the poor Priest who was holding on to the Latin Mass. And I trusted our Parish Priest, whose way was clearly mirrored in the Letter of Saint Jude. The reason I share this with you is, from what I am hearing and reading, I fear we will face another crisis of this nature in the near future. And I cling to Holy Mother Church along with all Priests, Bishops and those united with Holy Father. I don't think the crisis will be Holy Mass; but other changes talked about. I know there was a few years when we were told it was ok to eat meat on Fridays and give up something else. We carried on with abstaining from meat on Fridays. And lo and behold they have advised us to return to the practice of abstaining from meat on Fridays. Well we sailed through, because we never stopped the practice. I think the best way to deal with changes which may surprise us IF they happen is to carry on in the way we have been. For example hold on to your marriage. Keep your head down, and hopefully we will all come out the other end in one piece. God willing. Just sharing my private concerns.
That’s fair Padraig, you are the owner of the house after all. If you’ve been told by Our Lady to do that, then you will have to it. She always knows what is best. However, you will have a big task in your way at these prophetic times of “diabolical disorientation” when defending the Catholic “dogma of faith” is often seen as a schismatic tendency or an attack to the Holy Father. At the same time, all the iniquities that opposed the Holy Roman Catholic Church during twenty centuries are not that bad anymore in the eyes of the people, sometimes they are even called virtues. The worst insult that we can do to His Holiness is to link him with the approval of grave sins and heresies. The Holy Father will never do that because that has been promised by Jesus Christ. Pope Francis is our Pope and we must pray so he never ceases to be so. My biggest fear at this moment is what the people, inside and outside the Church, are actually hoping, asking or even praying for him to do against the everlasting Truth of Jesus Christ. God help him! At this moment, the Truth, Jesus Christ Himself, is being betrayed, punished and humiliated publically in such a sophisticated manner unseen before. I think we must protect Him with all we have, with our lives if necessary. God help us! I believe that my temperament and attitude doesn’t match with the criteria that you want for this forum so I have decided to bow out. May God give you the wisdom that you need Padraig because the Iniquity is a big Mystery. Disclaimer: I hate bullfights but I do admire the “forcados”, like above. These traditional groups of fearless men, from the south of my country, always appear in the arena after a bullfight, when the bull is wounded and vicious, with the only objective of holding it with their own hands. It’s dangerous and sometimes goes wrong. It’s just a craziness like any other kind but, sometimes, we can learn even from crazy people. I have watched this video many times but it can still make me drop some tears. Good beye brothers in faith. Watch and pray, don’t fall asleep.
We used to have Latin Mass in our hose for many years, Julia. One of the priests who came to say it ws a real living saint, Fr Wilders. The Tridentine Mass is lovely but I guess I just went because it was in our front room and it saved the walk to Church . The people who came struck me as very,very good devout people too. I would say many of them were Sedevacantists.
To be honest I would prefer the Tridentine Mass, if I could wave a magic wand and take us back. The Old Rite was much richer and the Liturgy was butchered in the Novus Ordo. The Orthodox consider us a laughing stock because of this. Old Pope Benedict knows this quite well. But there you go I wouldn't make a big issue about it.
Yes I agree Padraig. Its strange that the rebellion and disobedience of SSPX has blocked access to this sacred celebration of the sacrifice of Calvary, the very thing they wish to preserve.
