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Who will go to heaven?

Discussion in 'Questions and Answers' started by fallen saint, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    In the Apostles Creed, it says “thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead”
    So apparently some will be living then
    gracia likes this.
  2. Carol55

    Carol55 Powers


    I am not certain about this idea, of course.

    What I was trying to explain is that there is a possibility that the Illumination of Conscience could in fact be the judgment of the living because Saint Faustina stated that Our Lord will be coming as the King of Mercy although we know that Our Lord will not be coming in a glorified body until the judgment of the dead, Rev. 20.

    It is also interesting that Saint Faustina stated that the Illumination of Conscience would occur shortly before the last day. The Garabandal seers also stated that we would be entering "the end of times". So there is a connection between the Warning/Illumination of Conscience and the end. I am simply wondering if it could be possible that it is in fact the judgment of the living and Our Lord would be coming in spirit. Then this event would be separated by an unspecified number of years from the judgment of the dead in which Our Lord would be coming in a glorified body at the end.

    It is a leap from what we are accustom to thinking so I don't expect this idea to be well accepted but I am not so sure that there is solid proof that this idea opposes what the Church teaches.

    There are three scriptures which state Our Lord will judge the living and the dead and none of them specify when this will occur. In addition, as I stated in my other post I believe that Revelation 20 only speaks of a judgment of the dead.

    It's something to consider but not something to get hung up on. I believe that this is possible and I wanted to provide this idea for consideration especially for the people who question the Warning/Illumination of Conscience.
    sterph likes this.
  3. fallen saint

    fallen saint Baby steps :)

    Some remote place...might be your backyard.

    Look at Los Angeles, Chicago or New York...you will see truly lost Cities. Abortion seen as a human right. Billboards, magazines, TV and movies all promoting anti-Christian philosophy. Changing our speech where the narrative is a lie...but it is promoted as the truth.

    Where can the lost, truly find God? Most of us are afraid to stand up for our faith and for sure, we don't evangelize as God asks.

    So maybe those remote pagan areas are really our back yards.

    Evil is growing by the day...

    Dolours you seem to attack my statement. Hopefully my posts open some eyes or at least makes one contemplate the bigger picture. I never said what was wrong or right. I just mentioned what I believe my sister is doing with my nieces and nephews. Do I agree...no. But I understand her philosophy.

    And your last statement...inferring that I am making God stupid or a pushover...shows your arrogance. I have no idea how this will all end. No one does...but by the grace of God...we have faith and hope.

    Brother Al

    davidtlig and sterph like this.
  4. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    Dolours was not arrogant.
    To not ask prayers for your sisters conversion shows yours.
  5. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Modern Catholic Dictionary
    by Fr. John A. Hardon, S.J.

    IGNORANCE. Lack of knowledge that should be present. Relative to imputability, the ignorance may be either culpable or inculpable, technically called vincible or invincible. (Etym. Latin ignorantia, ignorance, want of knowledge or information.)

    IGNORANCE OF FACT. Lack of knowledge that should be present. Relative to imputability, the ignorance may be either culpable or inculpable, technically called vincible or invincible. (Etym. Latin ignorantia, ignorance, want of knowledge or information.)

    IGNORANCE OF LAW. Lack of knowledge of some provision of law, civil or ecclesiastical, of its meaning or application in a given case. Culpability, then, will depend on how morally responsible one is for one's ignorance.

    CULPABLE. Morally responsible for an evil action. Culpability assumes sufficient awareness and (internal) consent to the evil done. It is identified with formal guilt or sin. (Etym. Latin culpabilis, blameworthy; from culpare, to blame.)

    Lack of knowledge, either of fact or law, for which a person is not morally responsible. This may be due to the difficulty of the object of the knowledge, or scarcity of evidence, or insufficient time or talent in the person, or any other factor for which he is not culpable. (Etym. Latin in, not + vincibilis, easily overcome: invincibilis.)

    VINCIBLE IGNORANCE. Lack of knowledge for which a person is morally responsible. It is culpable ignorance because it could be cleared up if the person used sufficient diligence. One is said to be simply (but culpably) ignorant if one fails to make enough effort to learn what should be known; guilt then depends on one’s lack of effort to clear up the ignorance. That person is crassly ignorant when the lack of knowledge is not directly willed but rather due to neglect or laziness; as a result the guilt is somewhat lessened, but in grave matters a person would still be gravely responsible. A person has affected ignorance when one deliberately fosters it in order not to be inhibited in what one wants to do; such ignorance is gravely wrong when it concerns serious matters. (Etym. Latin vincibilis, easily overcome; ignorantia, want of knowledge or information.)
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
    Mario likes this.
  6. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    I didn't attack anyone or anything. I merely pointed out that you gave two examples in your question about who would get to Heaven. I took it that you were using personal experience to make a broader point. Nowhere did I mention your relatives because I don't know them and don't know the accuracy of what you related to us about them. I merely addressed the broader question of whether people living in a country where knowledge of the faith is easily available to those co-operating with God's grace can excuse as invincible ignorance their failure to respond to that grace. That I would give the possibility of an alternative and perhaps more accurate perspective on invincible ignorance isn't arrogance. I didn't claim that mine could be the only interpretation of invincible ignorance. How very rude, intolerant and unChristian of you to make such an accusation especially in the holy season of Advent. Shame on you.
  7. fallen saint

    fallen saint Baby steps :)

    Illumination of Conscious won't be automatic ticket to heaven. It will actually be a line drawn on earth. You will need to make a choice on EARTH. That entails accepting God on earth and all its ramifications. And if it is during the anti-christs reign...what day to day sacrifices will it take, to accept God on earth.

    The Illumination of Conscious comes with a price. It is not a get out of jail card. It might be a follow me and the cross on earth or join the anti-christ.

    That will be a very real and difficult decision for many.


    davidtlig likes this.
  8. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    Thank you for your posts, FS. You won't get much encouragement here but there are more people viewing the forum as guests than members. Your good heart shows through.
  9. Mario

    Mario Powers

    soldier of christ,

    Thank you for this simple and transparent answer. God alone knows the particular graces that have been given to us personally, and He will judge us according to how we have responded. There is no earning of salvation, for God provides both the grace to embrace and the grace to respond. How a person is judged who has not heard the Gospel preached and who lives in the remote jungle, will be judged accordingly. Those of us who claim to know the fullness of truth and attempt to live and share it, are much more accountable. That reality makes me tremble a bit.

    Luke 12:48 To those who have been given much, much is expected!

    Philippians 2:12...Work out your salvation in fear and trembling!
    fallen saint likes this.
  10. Mario

    Mario Powers

    A passage from Jonah drives home this point of responding to grace. The prophet first preached the message of repentance to the Ninevites. How do we know they responded?

    Jonah 3: "By the decree of the king and his nobles: Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; let them not feed, or drink water, 8 but let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and let them cry mightily to God; yea, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence which is in his hands. 9 Who knows, God may yet repent and turn from his fierce anger, so that we perish not?" 10 When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil way, God repented of the evil which he had said he would do to them; and he did not do it.

    Perhaps this is where the saying comes from: Actions speak louder than words!:)

    Safe in the Flames of the Sacred Heart!
  11. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Thank you
    That is a lot to digest
    Carol55 likes this.
  12. Carol55

    Carol55 Powers


    You don't have to digest it, just give it a passing thought.:LOL:

    Whatever happens is in God's control and when the Warning/Illumination of Conscience occurs I don't think that he will confirm what I have stated anyway.

    IOW, he won't flash a sign for us that says, "This is the judgment of the living." :LOL:

    Those who are members on this forum are probably more prepared than most people for any of these future divine events, that's the most important thing.

    Peace to you!(y)

    Oh and back to the title of the thread. Ultimately God will decide, "Who will go to heaven" but we know that. I think of the prodigal son and God's mercy for mankind. We should try and do our best and we do have responsibility for the lives we have brought into the world. I believe if we think we can fool God, well, I think we will find out that we cannot but I truly feel that God will offer and has offered every means to save us.

    Peace to you too fallensaint!:)
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
  13. Mario

    Mario Powers


    Thank you for the link to that very informative site!:D

    Safe in the Barque of Peter!

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