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What is a Liberal Catholic?

Discussion in 'Questions and Answers' started by Mac, Dec 3, 2016.

  1. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    It seems he said these things when he was a Bishop.

    "No type is more dangerous than this, and to be persuaded of it, it is sufficient to consider the obstinacy with which so- called 'Liberal-Catholics' cling to their false doctrine, trying to lure the Church herself into their way of thinking. Priests must watch against that hypocrisy which attempts to enter into the fold of Christ preaching Charity and Prudence, as though it were Charity to let the wolf tear the sheep to pieces, or Virtue to practice that prudence of the flesh which is reproved by God … Priests must watch, for the faith is threatened, less by open denial than by the subtlety and falsehood of those perfidious Liberal- Catholics, who, stopping scarcely on the brink of condemned error, find their strength in the appearance of pure doctrine.

    "Let priests take care not to accept from the Liberal any ideas which, under the mask of good, pretend to reconcile Justice with Iniquity. Liberal Catholics are wolves in sheep's clothing. The priest must unveil to the people their perfidious plot, their iniquitous design. You will be called Papist, clerical, retrograde, intolerant, but pay no heed to the derision and mockery of the wicked. Have courage; you must never yield, nor is there any need to yield. You must go into the attack whole-heartedly, not in secret but in public, not behind barred doors, but in the open, in the view of all."

    As Pope he wrote some great Encyclicals...http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10lamen.htm

    And Pascendi should be read by all...http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10pasce.htm
     
    little me and Carol55 like this.
  2. little me

    little me Archangels

    And where is this type of preaching and teaching today?! Nowhere. It is too rigid, too intolerant, judgmental, lacking mercy etc. Please, God, send us a pope who preaches the Truth!! Those of us who live only on Truth are starving. Where has Truth gone? Where have they put Him? While those who feast on lies and deceit are full to the brim.
     
    Beth B, Clare A, sterph and 1 other person like this.
  3. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Would the Bishop of San Diego qualify as a liberal Catholic? http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=30063

    "Bishop Robert McElroy of San Diego, California, has asked his priests to encourage Catholics who are divorced and remarried to consider whether “God is calling them to return to the Eucharist.”

    Following up on recommendations from a diocesan Synod held in October, Bishop McElroy instructed his pastors to post notices in parish bulletins, inviting divorced and remarried Catholics to “utilize the internal forum of conscience” in making their decisions whether they should receive Communion.

    Citing the deliberations of the diocesan Synod, the bishop also said that parishes should welcome gay and lesbian couples, and couples cohabitating before marriage. “The Synod pointed to the need to invite young couples lovingly, non-judgmentally and energetically into Catholic marriage and to provide mentors for them,” he said."


    Would I be a rigid legalist for asking what kind of Catholic marriage is available to gay and lesbian cohabiting couples? Please don't bother telling me that this is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

    I sure hope that everyone here is praying for Cardinal Burke because after the axe of mercy falls on him there won't be anyone left in the hierarchy to defend the faith.
     
    Beth B, picadillo, Mac and 3 others like this.
  4. CrewDog

    CrewDog Powers

    "The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
    Ronald Reagan
    The sad truth is just about all of us are sure of things that aren't so but ..... Liberalism these past 100 plus years has gotten a bunch of folks killed ... including 56 million babies in the USA and countless others elsewhere .... Abortion alone should be enough of an argument but "These Days" :mad: ........ and failed Liberal Policies in any Urban Area you can name and ... :(

    GOD SAVE ALL HERE!!
     
    Dolours likes this.
  5. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    God has already sent us plenty of popes who preached, teached and wrote extensively on the truth in the past 50 years. Few Listened! Why would having another Pope who teaches the fullness of the truth matter now? It is to late to look back and wish for what we had and ignored as Catholics. The plan of Satan to implant gay's and Freemason's in to the seminaries for the past 60 years worked well in his favor. But, the war for the soul is not finished. God has many other plans coming that will thwart what Satan has planned. For our part, we are called to be holy, stay in the state of grace, pray, fast and prepare for what scripture and prophecy have foretold. Little time left now.
     
    fallen saint and FatimaPilgrim like this.
  6. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    And so it begins out in the open.....
     
    little me likes this.
  7. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    That's the first thought that occurred to me. I'm surprised it is happening so soon. I thought they would wait maybe a year or so but I suppose that in a place like California (and probably parts of Europe) it's only rubberstamping what had already been happening under the radar.
     
    picadillo likes this.
  8. garabandal

    garabandal Powers


    Spot on - we are in the final, final confrontation.
     
  9. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    When the Rainbow people are invited into a Church near me I am out the door.

    Perversion masquerading as a virtue.

    Male homosexuality is one of the greatest insults to the beauty and dignity of women.

    There is clearly a demonic infestation in the 'pride days' they participate in - the depths of hell opens on earth but even the demons are embarrassed by their filthy practices.
     
    Clare A likes this.
  10. CrewDog

    CrewDog Powers

    This looks kie a good a place as any for today's verse? Death & Darkness is all about us but we have the Light & Life of Jesus always with us :)

    HeartLight Daily Verse - 4 December


    John 8:12
    When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said,"I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

    Thoughts on today's verse:
    Darkness is more than a symbol, it is a pervasive way of living and viewing the world. Darkness is the place of deception, evil, crime, predators, sin, and death. To follow Jesus means to bring him our heart and let him cast everything from the darkness that plagues us on the inside so we don't have to be afraid of the darkness on the outside. In this way, Jesus gives us light, but it is a light that does more than fill a dark room. This is a light that illumines the heart.

    Prayer:
    Holy God who lives in glorious and irrepressible light, I praise you for sending Jesus to cast away the dark fears that so easily envelope me. I pray for strength and courage to not only live in the light, but show others their way to the light. In Jesus name I pray. Amen. Visit heartlight.org for more

    GOD SAVE ALL HERE!!
     
    Carol55 likes this.
  11. Clare A

    Clare A Archangels

    I read a very fine article, which I stupidly didn't save, about the reasons why Trump won. The author is Jewish - I wish I could remember his name. Anyway, he made the point that liberalism is based on emotion. AS in 'they love each other, why shouldn't they be married?' I had not considered this before, but there is a deep truth there. Liberalism pretty much always appeals to 'feelings' and emotion. Even if it's just the emotion of the person proposing, as in "We should welcome a million new migrants to our shores because they are suffering". This panders to the feel-good mood of the speaker but makes no provision for the likely repercussions. 'Liberal Catholics' (a contradiction in terms) are always about fluffy good feelings which trump actual doctrine. 'The faith is too hard', 'we should listen to the experiences of those people who [supply illicit practices here]'.

    There are either orthodox or heterodox Catholics and frankly I have more in common with many Protestants than the libs. Cardinal Ratzinger is reported to have said of Hans Kung that he was really a Protestant, 'and a very liberal one at that'.

    I don't like the 'neo-Con' and 'rad trad' labels btw. They are American in origin and don't speak to us in Europe. But that's a rabbit hole and I should just shut up.....
     
  12. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Neither do I like those labels along with the "far right" or "far left" labels because it presupposes that the person attaching the labels to the group being demonised is the arbiter of who or what is the centre. Today's "centre" as determined by the powers that be and their journalist hacks was considered "far" or "extreme" not so many years ago, and whether that extreme was to the right or the left depended on the prevailing power.

    I think that the article I linked to about San Diego is giving its own interpretation of what the Diocese actually said. Trouble is that the actual statement from the Diocese is about as clear as AL, so one interpretation is as valid as another. I don't think that even the most blinkered among us is unaware of where this new definition of mercy is leading us.
     
  13. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    We are truly living in the 1st chapter of St. Paul's letter to the Romans:

    [17] For the justice of God is revealed therein, from faith unto faith, as it is written: The just man liveth by faith. [18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and injustice of those men that detain the truth of God in injustice: [19] Because that which is known of God is manifest in them. For God hath manifested it unto them. [20] For the invisible things of him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made; his eternal power also, and divinity: so that they are inexcusable.

    [21] Because that, when they knew God, they have not glorified him as God, or given thanks; but became vain in their thoughts, and their foolish heart was darkened. [22] For professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. [23] And they changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of the image of a corruptible man, and of birds, and of fourfooted beasts, and of creeping things. [24] Wherefore God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness, to dishonour their own bodies among themselves. [25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie; and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    [26] For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. [27] And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error. [28] And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient; [29] Being filled with all iniquity, malice, fornication, avarice, wickedness, full of envy, murder, contention, deceit, malignity, whisperers, [30] Detractors, hateful to God, contumelious, proud, haughty, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

    [31] Foolish, dissolute, without affection, without fidelity, without mercy. [32] Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them.
     
    Mac, BrianK and Dolours like this.
  14. MMM

    MMM Principalities

    When asked which is the greatest commandment, Jesus said "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind," before also paraphrasing a second passage; "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."

    To me the first commandment is very conservative which is to put God first and hence follow his commandments. The 2nd one is arguably very liberal, to love others as thyself.

    As Peter said, "Above all, love one another deeply, because love covers a multitude of sins". I don't believe he meant love only your christian brothers and sisters but all people.

    I believe if someone was following God's will perfectly (yes impossible it seems), they would be conservative by the fact that the commandments are deemed as such but would also be doing acts that would be deemed liberal (at least by today's weak political definition) by their love and giving of self to others. I think the good Samaritan is a good example of this. True love sees the soul of the person that God created beyond their actions and sins. Of course a Catholic can't condone sinful actions but they also can't draw a line such that they will not associate, help or even pray for those living a life of sin. This is a personal thing attempting to follow God's will.

    Defining conservative as meaning right (as in right/wrong) and liberal as meaning wrong is a mistake especially when done in a general sense. People love to lable and put others in boxes, we all do it but it's not healthy because we don't know God's plan for even the worse of sinners or how even the most "conservative" of His followers can fall from grace.

    If God's asks us "what did your do for your fellow man/woman?" at time of death these acts of love He is looking for may very well be deemed liberal by these boxed political definitions.


     
    davidtlig likes this.
  15. picadillo

    picadillo Powers

    I have always believed Catholicism is both left and right. Social justice (catholic definition) and the law. Here is a biblical story for me that puts it in perspective. Unfortunately today, the hierarchy is being led by the pope to only one side:

    Gospel of Luke[edit]
    [​IMG]
    Georg Friedrich Stettner: Christ at the home of Martha and Mary
    According to the Gospel of Luke:

    As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord's feet listening to what he said. But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, "Lord, don't you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!" "Martha, Martha," the Lord answered, "you are worried and upset about many things, but only one thing is needed. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her."[3]

    Interpretation[edit]
    Mary chose listening to the teachings of Jesus over helping her sister prepare food. Jesus responded that she was right because only one thing is needed, "one thing" apparently meaning listening to the teachings of Jesus. This goes in line with words by Jesus that Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God (Luke 4:4), and The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life, meaning eternal life (John 6:63).[4] To simplify, this is frequently interpreted as spiritual values being more important than material business, such as preparation of food.
     
  16. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    The secular terms "liberal" and "conservative" have been imported into the Church to replace the more accurate "orthodox" and "heterodox" and serves merely to lend an air of respectability to the heterodox and belittle the orthodox.

    I'm inclined to agree with Cardinal Pell's recent statement that it's only in matters pertaining to sexual mortality that any leeway is claimed or given to the internal forum (I'm paraphrasing Cardinal Pell, but his full statement is available online). For example, love of neighbour means that we daren't say or do anything that suggests a person could be endangering his immortal soul by engaging in what has always been sinful sexual relations because to do so makes us appear rigid and judgemental because we aren't allowing for their internal forum. At the same time, if our internal forum is telling us that throwing open our borders to countless immigrants will have a detrimental effect on our already up to 50% unemployed youth and stressed social services, people condemning us as unChristian or lacking in love for our neighbour would never be labelled as rigid and judgemental. Oddly enough, those who are very generous with other people's money and hospitality tend to fall into the liberal category and tend to be the same people who prioritise the internal forum on sexual morality.
     

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