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Trump, a shocked Vatican, and ‘papal’ climate change

Discussion in 'Pope Francis' started by BrianK, Nov 16, 2016.

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  1. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    November 16, 2016
    Trump, a shocked Vatican, and ‘papal’ climate change
    By Matt C. Abbott


    It appears that many Vatican officials are unhappy with Donald Trump’s presidential victory.


    From the National Catholic Register:

    Corriere della Sera reported Nov. 10 that, according to its research, most in the Vatican were backing Hillary Clinton as the ‘lesser evil.’ Trump, on the other hand, was considered ‘unelectable’ due to his ‘aggressive chauvinism,’ in addition to his threats to deport 11 million illegal Mexican immigrants and ban Muslims from immigrating to the United States.​

    Now that the ‘greater evil’ has won, the Vatican is viewing the United States as ‘angry and radicalized,’ Corriere della Sera wrote….​

    A ‘lot of incomprehension’ and ‘bitter shock’ were generally prevalent for many in the Vatican, agreed one U.S. official who spoke with the Register. Based on ‘failings of reporting,’ he said, Clinton was represented as far preferable to Trump, who was portrayed as a ‘buffoon,’ and reporting about Clinton’s shortcomings ‘never sunk in.’

    Due to a general lack of understanding of the U.S. ‘culture wars’ in Italy, Clinton’s radical pro-abortion-rights position also hardly figured at all in media commentary.

    I can’t help but wonder if the Vatican is becoming the enemy of authentic Catholicism. It sure seems that way. As for Pope Francis, I was certainly willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in the early months of his pontificate, as were most other orthodox Catholics. Sadly, his pontificate has turned out to be a huge disappointment.

    He loves to give off-the-cuff remarks to members of the media about important moral matters that deserve far more serious and thoughtful treatment; he thrives on ambiguity in his speech and writing; he prides himself on being humble and merciful – “Who am I to judge? – yet his words and actions toward orthodox clergy and laity have been insulting and arrogant.

    And he has seemingly embraced the left’s political agenda.

    From Catholic World News:

    The international community has a ‘serious ethical and moral responsibility to act without delay’ in combating climate change, Pope Francis said in a message to COP22, the UN climate conference taking place in Marrakech, Morocco.​

    I concede that Francis has said some good things over the last couple of years, but the perplexing and bad have outweighed the good.

    Dare I say that President-Elect Trump just might be a bit more humble than the Jesuit from Argentina?
    little me and picadillo like this.
  2. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Submission by Charles Cardinal Maung Bo of Burma on global warming - not one mention of God.

    Charles Cardinal Maung Bo

    Archbishop of Yangon Archdiocese, Myanmar (Burma)

    Your Eminence,

    Your Excellencies,

    Dear Friends,

    Greetings from Myanmar, Burma. Coming from a small country in South East Asia, I am honored to present our people’s views to this August Assembly.

    The world is crossing through a now or never moment. The Paris agreement and COP 21 performed a diplomacy master class. The resolve of the world leaders pulled the world from what one said “ecological suicide”. The world, I do hope, is passing through its pivotal moment in history urged by the moral voice of our Pope through “Laudato Si’”. From the tunnels of despair, the world community has boldly climbed the first mountain, hoping to reduce the global warming by 2°C. We do hope tempo of the Paris will be accelerated in the COP22.

    I stand here the representative of Myanmar people. For the last six decades, man made disasters created IDPs refugees and unsafe migration. Millions of our youth were driven to modern forms of slavery.

    But in this orgy of oppression by man-made disasters, sadly nature is contributing heavily. Pope has brought to the world notice the dangerous cognac of economic injustice and environmental injustice.

    Many of the poor live in areas particularly affected by phenomena related to Global warming and their means of subsistence are largely dependent on natural reserves and eco system services like agriculture, fishing and forestry.

    ( “Laudato Si’” Chapter 1, Para 25).

    This is our first great challenge to my people in Myanmar.

    German Watch: Myanmar ranks at a very dangerous Global Risk Index (GRI) among the countries most affected by climate change (1994-2013). We are one of the poorest countries in the world but our risk index is climbing dangerously in the last ten years.

    We have had three cyclones, the first one Nargis (2008) killed more than 150,000 and impacted the livelihoods of 2.8 million people. We have had earthquakes, land slides and historic floods that destroyed town after town in 2015 impacting the lives of 1.6 million people.

    We never had a cyclone for 75 years before the tropical storm Nargis attacked us. Our people are very poor, their shelters are miserable and when nature attacks them, our poor die silently. World has recognized that our suffering is a man made disasters, through its violent intervention into nature. We are near Bangaldesh, a country that has been regularly attacked by nature. Both the countries are very poor.

    Unless rich countries agree to reduce the global warming, more people will die. This to me is a criminal genocide, when the poor and the weak are exposed violent nature created by unrestricted use of fossil fuels by rich countries.

    So we ask COP 22 to build on the good will of the COP 21 to help poor countries like Myanmar, Bangladesh and Honduras with the carbon credit. AS the Pope as indicated this is a moral crisis – the casualness with which we deal with the death of poor in natural disasters. Rich countries need to pay their penalty to the poor countries where millions have lost their livelihood. This is even in selfish interests of the rich countries. Apart from the conflict refugees, we are increasingly meeting environmental refugees. They will soon start knocking at the doors of the rich countries if their livelihood is destroyed. This could be done through establishing monitoring institutions strengthened as the Pope Francis as indicated:

    Because the stakes are so high, we need institutions empowered to impose penalties for damage inflicted on environment. (Laudato Si’, Ch: 6 Para 214).

    My last plea is this: the most affected people are the indigenous people. I come from a rainbow nation of 7 major tribes and 135 tribes. They live one of the most beautiful natural biodiversity areas but increasingly looted by modern capital. This is not only the nature is destroyed. For the ethnic people the ecosystem is sacred, every tree, every rivers, every land mass is animated by spirit and they worship nature.

    Myanmar lost 30percent of the forest last five years, making thousands of ethnic people traumatized. Nature is deeply spiritual to the indigenous people. Market economy has destroyed their meaning system, forcing many to seek succor in drugs. Myanmar is the second biggest producer of Opium, since natural forests are destroyed.

    I urge COP 22 to urge countries to sign the UN protocols and conventions on indigenous people. The indigenous people own the resources. Returning the resources to these people will promote greater environmental protection. Indigenous people and the first people are to be our co pilgrims in this great challenge.

    COP22 I hope will undertake seriously the role of indigenous people in environmental protection. I also urge countries that have taken resources from the indigenous people pay penalties and restore the eco system.

    In summary: We are a nation at the brink. A poor nation, now having Global Risk Index of 2. We have suffered under man-made disasters. We have become refugees, IDPs not only because of war, but because of the destruction of nature. Kindly compensate this poor country, kindly make the world powers to recognize that indigenous people and their rights over resources.

    Thank you
  3. padraig

    padraig New Member

    little me and picadillo like this.
  4. Wow.

    little me and picadillo like this.
  5. Dean

    Dean Archangels

    I'm sorry, I was no Trump fan. I did not vote for him. BUT anyone who thinks HRC was the lesser of two evils is either completely out of touch with what is going on with the moral fabric of the US and abortions or is evil themselves.
  6. picadillo

    picadillo Powers

    The last sentence is starting to be assumed by more and more catholics. Right now, he is ignored by most of the catholic world.

  7. Yeah, my mom is a lifelong Democrat and I think this is the first time that she just hasn't voted for president, but just for local elections. My dad did the same. I gleefully filled in my circle next to Trump (there may or may not have been maniacal laughter involved). :)
    CathyG, Sunnyveil and sterph like this.
  8. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    I'm kinda on the fence over this climate change issue. I don't think there's any doubt that the climate is changing. The question is whether we can do anything to prevent it. I wish we could hear both sides of the argument from scientists. The 99% who agree that humans are the cause are 99% of how many? Is that 99% of all the world's climatologists (if there is such a profession), or 99% of scientists who benefit from efforts to reverse global warming, through return on investments in alternative energy projects, funding for university research projects, job prospects, etc? I would like to hear, even occasionally, from the 1%, otherwise I suspect propaganda and suppression of free speech.

    Whatever the cause, the world's powers do need to address the plight of people living in areas affected by the changing climate. Long term projects won't help people suffering now, but we aren't seeing huge resources being put into helping them while awaiting the promised positive effects of limiting CO2 emissions or whatever else is purportedly causing the problem.

    Irrespective of any change in climate, we do need to figure out and implement methods of cleaning up the oceans.
  9. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    The point of my post above was to point out that the good Bishop managed to write a letter about the global crisis and the particular challenges in his country without once mentioning prayer penance or God.

    An atheist may as well have written that letter!

    Notice how often bishops and cardinals now sound like politicians in public addresses like this. Too many sound like unbelievers to me. There is no power in their words because they are fixated with worldly problems.

    The crisis in the world is primarily spiritual. The remedy is spiritual - a return to God.

    An anaemic letter from the bishop of Burma will change nothing.
    Dolours likes this.
  10. padraig

    padraig New Member

    We will maybe keep the forum open but give internal Church matters a rest till after Christmas. :)

    I think actually events are fast moving beyond us and the Cardinals and Bishops will be doing a lot of talking themselves. So I am going to freeze threads on internal Church matters. We can get back to this after Christmas.

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