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“Through him, with him, and in him"

Discussion in 'On prayer itself' started by "Quis ut Deus", Oct 15, 2016.

  1. For some time now when the priest gets to that part of the mass, my heart stirs a very strong, proud and energetic beat a feeling of a realization I also feel a sense that this particular verse is not to be taken lightly and should be itself taken very very seriously by the priest who is saying those magnificent words..Its no surprise then that I found the extract below it must be the carmalite prompting of my heavenly sister..:):love:

    “Through him, with him, and in him in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all honor and glory is yours, Almighty Father, for ever and ever.”

    With these solemn words, the priest ends the eucharistic prayer at the center of which is the mysterious event of the consecration.

    These words at the same time encapsulate the prayer of the church: honor and glory to the triune God through, with, and in Christ.

    Although the words are directed to the Father, all glorification of the Father is at the same time glorification of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

    Indeed, the prayer extols the majesty that the Father imparts to the Son and that both impart to the Holy Spirit from eternity to eternity.

    All praise of God is through, with, and in Christ.

    Through him, because only through Christ does humanity have access to the Father and because his existence as God-man and his work of salvation are the fullest glorification of the Father;

    with him, because all authentic prayer is the fruit of union with Christ and at the same time buttresses this union, and because in honoring the Son one honors the Father and vice versa;

    in him, because the praying church is Christ himself, with every individual praying member as a part of his Mystical Body, and because the Father is in the Son and the Son the reflection of the Father, who makes his majesty visible.

    The dual meanings of through, with, and in clearly express the God-man’s mediation.

    The prayer of the church is the prayer of the ever-living Christ. Its prototype is Christ’s prayer during his human life.

    St Teresa Benedicta of the Cross (1891-1942)
    Sam, Mario, Booklady and 3 others like this.
  2. Light

    Light Principalities


    A beautiful post!

    A Blessing from Vatican 11; we truly would not be able to participate in the Mass to the same depth, if it were said in a language we did not immediately understand. Neither would the reality of the sacrifice that was involved, be as powerful in impacting our souls during the Eucharistic prayers & especially during the Pater Noster.

    I consider the sign of peace a disruption.

    God Bless
  3. josephite

    josephite Powers

    Quis ut Deus,
    I thought this thread would be a good place to post my thoughts below as I think they dovetail into your beautiful meditation above.

    When Jesus walked the earth He was a man of prayer and it must have been something to behold .

    Because the Apostles who were able to closely witness Jesus' and saw Jesus heal the sick, cure the lepers, give sight to the blind, command evil spirits, feed the multitudes, walk on water and raise the dead, never said.......Master teach us how to how to cure the sick or raise the dead or walk on water.

    They asked Jesus....... Master teach us how to pray!

    When Jesus prayed it impressed them more than all His miracles. So Jesus at prayer would have been the most sacred and holy revelation which must have taken hold of their souls in wonder and awe.
    Dolours likes this.
  4. I would imagine that the world stopped and their hearts skipped a few beats when Jesus began to pray...wow

    I have listened to those words being said so so many times in fact when I was growing up the people used to say it with the priest and I have to say I miss that, some priests rush the prayer but now and then I am overjoyed at that special priest who says those most precious words with such love,force,honour and respect... truly special :love:
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  5. josephite

    josephite Powers

    I agree Light!

    Although I am in 2 minds when it comes to the sign of peace.

    When we say the Pater Noster after the consecration we are acknowleging this beautiful prayer and praying as Our Lord has taught us! So with the sign of Peace we acknowledge Our Lords words of peace that He stated after His resurrection ( Luke 24:35-48.):

    I think this should be the time that we look at those close around us and offer them peace while also acknowledging them as our brothers and sisters in Christ. However, I think that some people get distracted at this point and the beautiful meaning of Our Lords peace can be lost especially if it distracts from the presence of Our Lord on the Altar!

    So the sign of peace can unwittingly be a cause of distraction from the divine for some people and so it may be more efficacious in the mass, to allow Our Lord at this time, to speak of His peace to our hearts!

    The General Instruction of the Roman Missal states:

    There follows the rite of peace, by which the Church entreats peace and unity for herself and for the whole human family, and the faithful express to each other their ecclesial communion and mutual charity before communicating in the [Blessed] Sacrament.

    As for the actual sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by the conferences of bishops in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. However, it is appropriate that each person, in a sober manner, offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest (GIRM 82).
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2016
    Light likes this.
  6. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Yes, the Doxology is a glorious prayer. And on most Sunday Masses we, as lay participants, have the opportunity to sing the Great Amen in response!

    Safe in the Flames of the Sacred Heart!
    "Quis ut Deus", Light and josephite like this.
  7. Light

    Light Principalities


    The "sign of peace" was not in the Latin Mass. I believe there may have been good intentions for the adoption of its practice, but I recall Fr. Mitch Pacwa said on EWTN one time, at the crucifixion or death of Jesus, no follower of Jesus was shaking hands or singing "kumbyA". At Mass, we are at Calvary's Hill mourning the crucifixion and death of Jesus with Bl. Mother and St. John.

    Some priests give directions to look and smile at the face of the person beside you and give the sign of peace. I do not feel like smiling at that part of the Mass. Now some parishes are asking that all communicants stand until the last communicant has received. The brain that conceived this and the rationale that is used to justify it is perverse. We are being indoctrinated to deflect our minds away from whom we have just received. A slow erosion is being caused to the soul.

    God Bless
  8. josephite

    josephite Powers

    I believe the sign of peace was introduced with good intentions by our Holy Fathers in the faith.

    Our Glorious mass consists firstly of the Introductory Rite with the entrance Antiphon and the petition for mercy in the Kyrie and praise and blessing with the Gloria as the opening prayer and moves on to the beauty of the Liturgy of the Word which is followed by the Liturgy of the Eucharist.
    The Liturgy of the Eucharist
    concludes with the Eucharistic Prayer - and this is the center and high point of the Mass that makes Christ present for us in His Passion, Death, and Resurrection. During the Eucharistic Prayer, the entire assembly joins Christ in acknowledging the works of God and in the offering of Sacrifice.

    The wonders of the Eucharistic prayer include the introductory Dialogue, Preface, Sanctus, Eucharistic Prayer, Thanksgiving, Acclamation, Epiclesis, Consceration, Narrative and Consecration Anamnesis, Command of Christ through the Apostles Offering and Intercessions and then the Final Doxology Memorial Acclamation and the Great Amen!

    The logic of introducing the sign of peace at the Communion rite which follows the Great Amen was I believe to emphasise two things.

    Firstly Our Lords teaching on Peace!
    Colossians 3:15
    Galatians 5:22
    Hebrews 12:14
    1 Peter 3:11
    James 3:18
    1 Peter 3:9-11
    John 14:27
    2 Thessalonians 3:16

    Secondly Our Lords words.... that we must be one in communion to be in communion with Him!
    Philippians 2-5
    John 17-21
    1 Corinthians 10:17
    Ephesians 4:5
    1 John 1:7

    This is where the troublesome sign of peace finds its origin.

    I believe it was intended to be a Holy act and for some it is!

    But for those that are just weirdly smiling at others, while they mindlessly sing [ something thankfully I have never had to endure] it is indeed perverse!

    What was intended as a Holy act of peace and a holy act of being one with another before communion with Jesus is no doubt corrupted by these people. I conceed sadly it would be best to accomodate for these people and remove the sign of peace.

    God Bless
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2016
    Light likes this.
  9. Light

    Light Principalities


    I agree that it was "intended to be a Holy act" but primarily through lack of catechesis, it has turned into a "circus" (I think I have seen some people walk across the aisle to give the sign of peace, with high-fives & big broad smiles). Surely there is little point in going to Mass, if I do not already forgive or even if I hold a grudge against anyone. I find it has become very much an irreverent act, effectively, we are being required to submerge the awesome event that has just taken place on the Altar, from our consciousness by this formula. This coupled with other practices creeping into the Mass disturbs me.

    You may recall that a few years back the Church re-considered the sign of peace question and (unfortunately) decided to retain it at the same part of the Mass rather than change it. God's will be done.

    God Bless
    josephite likes this.
  10. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    If I was Pope I would get rid of the sign of peace immediately. Today!
  11. davidtlig

    davidtlig Powers

    I just have to come in here and, unusually, agree 100% with Garabandal! :D I offer my suffering each Mass for the Holy Souls......
    josephite, garabandal and Light like this.
  12. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    It genuinely is a suffering(y)
    josephite likes this.
  13. josephite likes this.

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