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This is what really bothers me

Discussion in 'Pope Francis' started by Dean, Jun 17, 2017.

  1. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Christina, this is why this is such a horrible Chastisement. The laity are caught in a catch-22. I am not qualified to field all the answers and quite frankly I don't know if anyone here is. Let me clarify something though. No Catholic is obliged to follow anyone in authority above us if we are told to sin or if we are told sin is okay.

    So it is not only the Pope we are supposed to follow, but all those in authority over us. A local Bishop, for example, may issue a proclamation that we are to avoid attending a certain Church because it is schismatic. We are obliged to follow the Bishop in this decree. If the same Bishop was however sexually abusing a child and we knew about it and he ordered us not to tell, we would have no obligation to follow him because he is ordering us to aid him in his sin.

    So if anyone tells you we are to obey Pope Francis (or any Pope) no matter what he says this person is wrong. That is not now and never has been the Catholic position. Blind obedience is not a Catholic teaching. If a Pope handed you a gun and told you to murder your neighbor you would not be obliged to do it.

    The Pope is under the protection of the Holy Spirit. He will not directly tell you that you are bound under the magisterium to sin. What is happening is the Bishops are being allowed to go wild and institute all sort of horrible and sacrilegious practices. They should be stopped. (Note: obviously there are many good Bishops, not all of them are participating in this.)

    If you are confused by something that comes out of Rome or the local Bishops then refer to the Catechism of the Catholic Church. That will tell you the true teaching. For example the CCC says that contraception is wrong under every circumstance. Period. Don't worry if a local Bishops conference says it is okay. Just stay away from it. It is intrinsically evil.

    I think as Mario pointed out in another post that if they do "reinterpret" Humanae Vitae it will most likely not come out and say that contraception is okay now. What it might come out and say is it is okay "under certain circumstances" possibly depending upon the culpability of the person using it and/or their conscience. I doubt they will rewrite the Catechism though so just refer to the Catechism and you will still see it remains always sinful.
    christina77, Dolours and sunburst like this.
  2. AED

    AED Powers

    I think this is what Malachi Martin meant when he said that if Satan got control of the Vatican it would (potentially) tear our faith to pieces. I remember his words: draw the shades out on sackcloth and ashes and pray to be spared.
  3. AED

    AED Powers

    Areghhh. This phone. Should read "put on sack cloth and ashes"
    Praetorian likes this.
  4. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Yes, and thank you for pointing it out. It's too late now for me to edit that post but let me be clear that of course we don't have the authority or right to declare any Pope an anti-pope.
    Praetorian and AED like this.
  5. dcana

    dcana Angels

    Like this? :

    Today there are numerous Catholics in many countries who have recourse to civil divorce and contract new civil unions. In fidelity to the words of Jesus Christ - "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery" the Church maintains that a new union cannot be recognized as valid, if the first marriage was. If the divorced are remarried civilly, they find themselves in a situation that objectively contravenes God's law. Consequently, they cannot receive Eucharistic communion as long as this situation persists. For the same reason, they cannot exercise certain ecclesial responsibilities. Reconciliation through the sacrament of Penance can be granted only to those who have repented for having violated the sign of the covenant and of fidelity to Christ, and who are committed to living in complete continence.

    Catechism of the Catholic Church #1650
    SgCatholic, Don_D, Praetorian and 2 others like this.
  6. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Katfalls, sunburst, Tanker and 2 others like this.
  7. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Thank You!

    Look to the Catechism and avoid "novelties" introduced by local Bishops that might go against what the Church has always taught.
    I hate to even say that but souls are at stake!
    AED likes this.
  8. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Fr. Martin also said something to the effect that what is coming would test the faith of the greatest Saints. That is a scary prospect because there are not many saintly people today. What will become of those weak in faith? Or even those of moderate faith?
    fallen saint and AED like this.
  9. Don_D

    Don_D Powers

    Well, I can tell you all as someone who is awaiting going through RCIA I pray daily for the wisdom and guidance of the Holy Spirit as well as Christs Mercy to see us all through this. It is a terrible time it seems for Chrsitiandom but it is our hope to endure to the end.

    We all must stay close to the teachings and traditions and not shrink from defending the church. I am so thankful that everyone here is so well versed in the tradition and dogma of the faith. I love you all.
    SgCatholic, sterph, AED and 1 other person like this.
  10. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    Even Pope Liberius, who somewhat entertained Arianism to avoid a schism inthe Church, was never an anti pope. The laity of the time, who were everything but lukewarm, were so disgusted with that pope that in Rome they avoided the public baths because they didn't want to be 'contaminate' by the party of Liberius.

    "Liberius, returning to Rome, found the mind of the mass of men alienated from him, because he had so shamefully yielded to Constantius [the Emperor pushing for Arianism]. And thus it came to pass, that those persons who had hitherto kept aloof from Felix [the rival Pope], and had avoided his communion in favour of Liberius, on hearing what had happened, left him for Felix, who raised the Catholic standard." Baron. Ann. 357. 56. He tells us besides (57), that the people would not even go to the public baths, lest they should bathe with the party of Liberius."

    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
  11. AED

    AED Powers

    Yes! He said it would test the faith of Catherine of Siena. Yikes. I think the only way to pass through it is to stay very little very humble and very charitable and forgiving of our enemies. And just utterly abandon ourselves to the Blessed Mother.
  12. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    Total abandonment into the hands of Our Mother Mary for he greater glory of God, yes!
    AED, Don_D and Praetorian like this.
  13. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels


    What an amazing quote Fr Clovis chose.

    BrianK likes this.
  14. Don_D

    Don_D Powers

    This is an incredibly precise explanation of what we are currently facing. Thank you Padraig. What an incredible Priest!
    Dolours likes this.
  15. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Wow! We must pray that God will send us more priests like Fr. Clovis.

    Thanks, Padraig, for posting the link.
  16. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Very interesting link, Jarg. Thanks for posting it.

    Do you know whether there was any controversy surrounding the election of Pope Liberius? There will always be a cloud hanging over the Francis papacy because of the background to his becoming a candidate and the fact that he stepped into the shoes of an apparently healthy Pope who resigned because he didn't have the strength to remain in office. None of it gives the impression that the Holy Spirit had anything to do with it.
    BrianK likes this.
  17. djmoforegon

    djmoforegon Archangels

    Dear fellow MOG'ers, we are all suffering from battle fatigue. I think it hurts the most in the spiritual realm, but I'm also fairly exhausted from the daily clashes in the political world, the cultural insanity, and family rifts and spats. And, as a side note, who knew Rocky Mountain Spotted ticks had an affinity for women with green eyes and freckles??

    There is a very wonderful Dominican who is parochial vicar of a parish in "Keep it Weird" Portland, Oregon. If the shrine to Our Lady of Lourdes isn't being vandalized, he wouldn't know what to do with his time. He feels personally charged by God to lead all of his congregation to heaven by the solid teaching of Catholic doctrine. He has faithfully instructed the flock concerning every piece of news coming from Rome. But today he had a different response and I quote, "I'm so tired. The author says he can confirm the rumor and he gives details. I hope he's wrong. I just don't have the energy for this anymore."

    So we are all exhausted and this is just the warm-up exercise. I am almost glad that I am not 20 years younger...a rocking chair on a porch in Purgatory has my name on it. (I pray.)

    By the way, I am so happy to have "met" all of you; you are my strength, my encouragement, and my comic relief!
    CathyG, Don_D, fallen saint and 5 others like this.
  18. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    I've taken it to Confession too. I asked the priest, "What are we supposed to do about this pope?!"

    His reply? With a smile and a wink, "I don't know about you, but my pope is BXVI."

    And yes, he is a priest in good standing and in full union with the Church. But he's not dumb. Neither should we be. Yes, he was joking, but every good joke is built on a kernel of truth.
    SgCatholic, AED and HeavenlyHosts like this.
  19. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    It is very disconcerting for a Catholic to be out of step with the Pope. I, too, have raised it in Confession a few times. The last time I raised it, the priest reminded me that in the past it was the faithful who stepped up to the plate in defence of the Faith. Looks like the very tiny remnant of Catholics in Holland have decided that enough is enough: http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=31885.
    AED, SgCatholic and Mac like this.
  20. padraig

    padraig New Member

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