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This is what really bothers me

Discussion in 'Pope Francis' started by Dean, Jun 17, 2017.

  1. Dean

    Dean Archangels

    I don't think Pope Francis is evil or anything like that. I don't think he is an anti-pope etc etc..

    But here is my issue. Another tweet this am about the environment.

    The biggest threats facing our church right now are radical Islam, secularism, and the attack on the family. yet he continues to go after the environment as an issue that is so far more important.

    I just don't like his priorities with public statements. Climate change is real, it has been happening for 4 million or billion years however long the earth has been here. But radical Islam, secularism and attacks on family and truths are what is killing our society and will continue to damage the church if we dont get a handle on it.
    gracia, Tanker and sterph like this.
  2. Tanker

    Tanker Principalities

    I agree. I pray for him daily. I think he is a holy person however, I think he is careless with his words. He seems to say things without much thought which leads to confusion. Carelessness can cause a lot of damage and this is what I see. Just my opinion of course.
    Carol55 likes this.
  3. Don_D

    Don_D Powers

    Agreed Dean, that said I suspect that Pope Francis and the church sees climate change and the nations coming together as an opportunity for the church to weigh in. I don't believe that it is purely political in nature because we know that it is good stewardship that is required of us for the Earth. Purely my conjecture of course but without this gathering of nations around a common cause we have fracture and division. Nations going this way and that, serving their own ends. I don't know that it is a great thing to rally around but it seems to be the opportunity given at this time.
  4. Byron

    Byron Principalities

    It's just another false church.
  5. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    I'm wavering on whether he is an anti-Pope. I don't know how he can be Pope while believing that God needs us or that souls not going to Heaven are annihilated. That's in addition to some of his other weird statements along with the disgraceful and deliberately ambiguous language in Amoris Laetitia concerning remarried divorcees receiving the Sacraments. The Climate Change stuff wouldn't top the list of my concerns.

    There's a limit to how much can be discounted as poor translations, misrepresentation, etc.
    gracia, HeavenlyHosts and BrianK like this.
  6. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    "Climate change" is the propaganda tool the socialists/Marxists/population controllers/New World Ordo are trying to use as a vehicle for global domination of mankind. It is evil.

    For a pope to cheerlead this agenda, he must be a complete imbecile, and thus unfit to lead the Church, or he must be evil too.

    Take your pick. My money is on the latter.
    gracia and HeavenlyHosts like this.
  7. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Add population control to climate change as another tool
    And the rainbows
    Right now I can't think of another but there are other platforms
    Sad but true
  8. the first option (not evil) and poorly trained in seminary with marxist theology which was standard in the seminaries of South America
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
    Byron and BrianK like this.
  9. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Please Dolours (and anyone else) for the good of your soul do not take it upon yourself to make personal decisions as to whether a Pope is valid or not. The laity have no authority to decide this. It only risks separating yourself from the Church through schism. Schism is an ecclesiastical crime and can result in excommunication. This excommunication can only be lifted by a Bishop.

    Schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him." [Code of Canon Law c.751]

    There have been many anti-popes in Church history, but to my knowledge there have only been anti-popes when there have been other claimants yying for the papacy. Some point to Benedict, but he is not vying for the papacy. Indeed he acknowledges Pope Francis as Pope.

    This is risky business.
  10. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    Yes we must be careful - but having a "valid" pope who is a rank heretic and unopposed by the Cardinals is, IMO, more dangerous to the Faith than Holding the mental reservation that we might have an antipope.

    If a Catholic is faithful and well formed he risks the very real problem of the Church and Jesus seemingly lying when the promise of indefectability is examined. If he is a typical Catholic he risks literal perdition in following this pope.

    Frankly the mental reservation that he may be an antipope may preserve the Faith of ardent souls at this point. At this point if I didn't have that mental reservation my Faith would be in jeopardy because of this "pope's" rank heresy in light of the promises regarding the Church.

    So in the back of my mind I HOPE he turns out to have been, in hindsight, an antipppe.

    And the fact is that we DO have a valid emeritus pope who very may well have been pressured to resign, so his resignation would have been invalid and the conclave "electing" Pope Francis null.

    I'm fairly well convinced that in hindsight, this is what they will say.

    SgCatholic likes this.
  11. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I was worried about Dolours statement:
    "I'm wavering on whether he is an anti-Pope."
    I do not mean to put words in her mouth but to my mind this seemed to be a thought that might come down one way or the other.

    Wondering if a Pope might be an anti-pope is an entirely different thing from giving it thought and making a decision for ourselves. I only caution this because I have seen plenty of people come to this conclusion on their own. They flatly state that they have decided he is an anti-pope. The laity have no right if any kind to come to that conclusion. That reeks of Protestant "personal interpretation" and "personal conscience".

    The devil will try to peel people from the Church on the left and the right.

    All I am saying is be very careful. This is a minefield.

    We are bound to accept as Pope the man presented to the Church by the conclave and accepted by the faithful. That is Pope Francis.
    gracia, Don_D, AED and 1 other person like this.
  12. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

  13. padraig

    padraig New Member

    gracia likes this.
  14. christina77

    christina77 New Member

    I have a genuine dilemma here. If as many on this forum say, Pope Francis is to be obeyed no matter what he says then a) if a person has divorced and remarried recieves communion,without any intention of living as brother and sister, will he/she be condemned to hell? What about obedience to the pope then? b) if Humanae Vitae is modified to include Artificial contraception as acceptable in "Exceptional Circumstances" what happens to couples who follow the church teachings in this matter? Are they condemned to hell as well??
  15. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    Benedict XVI is still called an (emeritus) pope. He still dresses like a pope. He still lives within the Vatican walls.
    His personal assistant Bishop Ganswein talked about the abdication resulting in an “enlarged Petrine ministry,” with Pope Francis serving as the “active” and Pope Benedict serving as the “contemplative” member.

    To me, the answer is clear.
    BrianK likes this.
  16. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Yes, Praetorian, it is a minefield. And you're right that attacks on the Church come from the right as well as the left. You're also right that we as individuals or a group have the authority to declare Pope Francis an anti-Pope but we don't lose our use of reason when we're baptised.

    This Francis cult is not Catholic, yet it's pervading the Church like a disease no matter what he does or what he says to undermine the Deposit of Faith.

    The Church that I was born into and raised in is headed by Jesus Christ, son of the living God and second person of the Holy Trinity. That Church teaches that Sacred Scripture is the inspired word of God. Scripture warns me against listening to anyone, even an Apostle or an Angel from Heaven, preaching a different Gospel. Despite the Francis cultists, no Pope or Bishop has the authority to overturn the faith passed down from the Apostles and protected by the Magisterium for 2000 years. The Church I was born into doesn't preach one thing as objective Truth and promote the opposite in pastoral practice.

    If I had the authority to do so, I would run Pope Francis and his band of brothers out of the Vatican to prevent them reducing Christ's Church to just another NGO. I don't have that authority so I have no choice but to wait him out as previous generations of Catholics waited out the terms of bad, heretical and dangerous Popes. But don't ask me to accept that a man who believes that God needs us is a true successor of St. Peter who gave his own life to pass on to us the teachings that Pope Francis is undermining at every opportunity.

    I'm not leaving the Church but neither will I be silent when people like David accuse me of heresy while they embrace and excuse heretical statements and practices that were simply unthinkable for Catholics prior to this papacy. Jesus will protect His Church as He has done in the past but I'm afraid that He is letting us stew in our own juices as this Francis cult plays out.
    gracia, BrianK, djmoforegon and 3 others like this.
  17. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

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  18. AED

    AED Powers

    Yes. It is quicksand and no doubt part of the worst of the chastisement. It is anguish for a devout Catholic. I think the answer is this. Until God reveals otherwise PF is Pope. And therefore we owe him filial obedience in everything but sin. We owe him respect In Everything but sin as we would our own father. It is potentially seriously sinful to make antipope judgements on our own and I have taken this to Confession more than once. When asked we can certainly object to heresy and warn others but always keeping charity and always as much as possible giving the benefit of the doubt. And always praying for PF for protection and sanctification. My two cents. :confused:
  19. AED

    AED Powers

    Yes Dolours. This is a horror from start to finish. Jesus has permitted this for His own inscrutable reasons. I don't get it. I hate it but it's the hand we've been dealt. And we mustn't endanger our own souls. We know our faith we know what is happening is diabolical but we are between the Rock and the hard place. We must endure and preserve our peace and stay in a state of grace and pray like a soldier in the trenches in the middle of a battle to the death. We are left to stew--and I guess offer it up. I am holding to the Blessed Mother as my ticket home. This minefield can blow us all up. Oh Mary help of Christian's rescue us.
    gracia, Mario and sunburst like this.
  20. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Hi Dolours,

    I have more to respond to on all of this later, but I am pressed for time now. I just wanted to clarify something. I know you wrote the above sentence as by mistake, but I had to point out the error in case a casual reader becomes confused and misunderstands my position.

    I did not say we as individuals have the right or authority to declare Pope Francis an anti-pope. I said the exact opposite :)

    We the laity have no authority or right to declare any Pope an anti-pope. :)
    No authority whatsoever.

    I know you meant to say that and just mis-typed but I had to correct it :)

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