The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    The Vatican heretics are so radical that the world itself has been outpaced. In their hubris and impatience, they have managed to over-estimate the wickedness of the world. Quite an extraordinary achievement in itself, but that's what comes from continually looking in the mirror and telling yourself you see the 'truth'. They might have anticipated that world was ready for the 'sanctification' of man-boy 'love', but they will find that not so many as they thought are as far gone as they, in their closed little world. Of course, this sort of thing often happens to people who ignore criticism.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  2. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    I recommend again the excellent item
    And that is the problem of those who keep repeating criticisms and then 'liking' each others posts without any attempt to understand another point of view.

    The problem is perfectly illustrated in the item I posted at http://motheofgod.com/threads/the-vatican-has-fallen.10058/page-258#post-200903


     
  3. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    Very perceptive comment. Here´s proof:

     
  4. padraig

    padraig Powers

    :)
    David, you have admitted you , yourself are troubled by the Pope's handling of the Chilean sex abuse cover up row. If, as you admit Pope Francis cannot handle the relatively simple matter of sexual abuse , in the greater scheme of things a relatively minor matter might there not be some doubts as regarding his insightful brilliance in much more important matters, such as , leading the entire Church in a 'Paradigm Shift?

    Also if the Holy Spirit is illuminating the Holy Father in ways beyond us poor plodding ordinary mortal capacity to understand ( apart from similiarly illuminated and brilliant individuals such as your good self) why then has the same Holy Spirit also not given this toweringly Holy, prophetic individual Light on Medugorje? Surely if the Holy Spirit could Light him to lead us in a 'Paradigm Shift ', the same Holy Spirit might have given him some light on these apparitions?

    Anyway my congratulations to yourself in reaching a place or personal holiness and insight in penetrating the goings on of this intellectual and spiritual collussus. Perhaps you might give very ordinary mortals a few pointers on how we too might reach such a stage of Illumination? Or at least some pointers as to where exactly we are going wrong on our intellectual/spiritual journey?

    Many thanks in advance.

    Err doesn't the direct comparison between the Holy Father to Jesus Christ on Earth seem a little ..well...over weening? By inference of course is Francis is a second Jesus then by implication you as a loyal fan must be compared to whom? The Apostles?

    Isn't all this a teeny weeny bit over the top?:eek:

    Luke 16:10

    "Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much.

     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  5. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    Padraig, yes Pope Francis seems to have made mistakes over the Chile situation but we don't know, currently, how serious the mistakes are. Crucially, we do not know if he actually read the letter he was given from Juan Cruz and , if not, why not.

    His action now is good, as abuse survivor Marie Collins has stated:

    “It’s a pity the Pope did not do this before making his recent comments. However it is good he has now looked anew and taken this step,” Collins said, in response to questions posed to her in her Twitter feed. “Archbishop Scicluna has a positive record on abuse and hopefully will be enabled to do a thorough investigation.”
    Archbishop Scicluna has since confirmed he will meet Cruz face to face before going to Chile. As I pointed out earlier, Scicluna was heavily involved in finally getting the Vatican and Pope John Paul II to finally accept the truth about Fr Maciel of the Legionaries of Christ.

    So I am hopeful that this matter will be resolved properly and also quite soon as I believe the Archbishop will be travelling in the next day or two. I firmly believe that the Pope will accept whatever Scicluna tells him.

     
  6. padraig

    padraig Powers

    What reason do you have for , 'Firmly believing', this, given his past history in this debacle? How has this towering intellectual / spiritual giant might such a hash of things?
     
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  7. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    There is no doubt that Pope Francis has believed the word of Bishop Barros and he seems to have not seen evidence to overthrow that trust. He is now clearly committed to finding the truth of the matter.

     
  8. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    A truer statement there has never been.
     
  9. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Are you attempting to understand our point of view?

    I sure as heck have tried to figure out yours and I honestly cannot.

    I think you are far too dismissive of the viewpoints of those who disagree with you. Something of which you are quick to accuse others. You also often show classic psychological projection in your posts. Seeing your own faults in others.
     
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  10. picadillo

    picadillo Guest

     
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  11. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Jesus Christ is not a 'point of view'. He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Not phoney Francis, not anybody else. We were wisely warned not to listen to any other gospel.
     
  12. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    I understand them totally, Praetorian. I don't have any problem whatever in understanding your points of view! I just disagree with them!

    I realise that but I don't think I can speak more clearly than I already do.

     
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  13. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    Absolutely!

    Now try to accept that others follow Jesus even though you don't see things the same way.

     
  14. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I guess perhaps I worded that poorly. I can understand your point of view, in that I can understand the arguments you lay out.

    What I cannot understand is the mindset that can reconcile all of this with Catholicism.
     
  15. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Not all points of view are valid or worth discussing or accepting.

    Someone who believes that contraception, an intrinsic evil, is okay to use is wrong. Period!

    Someone who believes we should "bless" same sex "unions" is wrong. Period!

    There does not need to be any discussion with these people.
    They are at best extremely confused and at worst heretics and not even Catholic anymore.

    The Arians claimed to follow Jesus as well.
    We did not need to try to understand and accept their point of view.
     
  16. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    I am not going to follow Jesus Christ in any other way than that of the Church he founded two millenia ago. Doctrine, as laid down by Him has not changed and cannot change. Adultery is so forbidden that it was given to Moses as a Commandment. Christ amplified this law by specifically forbidding divorce. Pope Francis seeks to overturn this doctrine given to us directly by Christ. Therefore, I have to choose between Christ and Pope Francis. I choose Christ and since, according to the law of non-contradiction, I cannot accept both, no matter how hard I try, I have to reject Pope Francis' new paradigm. I do not accept, and never will accept others who 'don't see things the same way', because they are choosing to contradict Christ and therefore exclude themselves from His Church, no matter how high their ecclesial office and no matter how much power they possess.
     
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  17. padraig

    padraig Powers

    But how has such a towering intellectual/ spiritual giant managed to err in this massive, tragic way, David? is it not rather out of character? Where was the Holy Spirit leading Him onwards and upwards to this ,'Paradigm Shift'; where the intellectual brilliance? Where they momentarily dimmed?

    Can we expect them to switch on so things may be fixed? Who will turn his lights back on again? How can we poor, plodding, confused, doubtful mortals be sure?
     
  18. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    Your statement is untrue.

     
  19. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    The pope is a sinner as he told us at the start of his pontificate and as we all are.

     
  20. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    That surely does not give him the license to dismantle the Church
     
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