Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.
Powerful response DeGaulle. Thankyou.
Sanchez Sorando is a throwback to the 'intellectual' useful idiots from the West (who were also very hasty to mock any deplorables who might have questioned them) who sang the praises of Stalin's USSR, as the latter conveniently showed them around the carefully-orchestrated best and most 'progressive' parts of his country, while the ridiculously great majority of that benighted country suffered famine, oppression, forced labour, gulags, despair and the degradation of the NKVD.
Father Kiely, on the other hand, has, you can be sure, a realistic appreciation of horrors of persecution. His anger is obvious, understandable and justifiable. On the face of it, we have a Pope who has been found out telling an untruth; who is sympathetic to child-abusers, but hostile to faithful Catholics; who stabs the faithful in the back; who undermines the dogma of Christ Himself. What a mess, indeed.
Like some in the Vatican, the Chinese Communist Party are militant atheists, so this should hardly come as a surprise.
Anything that can wreck the Church and soothe satan, there are those who will try it. The lines are becoming clearly drawn.
There were, before the modernists set to work, many hugely influential women in the Church. They were nuns, the last great one being St. Teresa of Calcutta, a woman who put American Presidents and many others of the high and mighty, in their place.
Now, the most important issue seems to be salving the pride of uppity women, scalds who would chastise Christ for having the temerity to be a man.
If a Cardinal, why not a pope? If a woman, why not a homosexual, or a transexual? If the criterion is worldly human 'rights' (wholly unmentioned in Scripture, the Fathers or any worthwhile source) over theology, any abomination is possible.
The mind reels. This Judas and make no mistake. The Judas kiss. How offensive this is to Almightu God. Why aren’t I fasting and dressing in sackcloth and ashes. I should be! Weeping at the altar. It is happening so fast. A blow upon a bruise. Just in a few days. Chile. China. And now this.
These are the times our Blessed Mother warned us about.
Our Lady of Good Success, pray for us.
Remember Alta Vendita and Bella Dodd’s testimony?
As a great supporter of Pope Francis, I feel a responsibility to comment on the Pope Francis and Barros case in Chile. I reject almost all the endless criticisms of Pope Francis that are regularly made on this forum. However, this situation involving Bishop Barros concerns me because it seems to me the Pope's actions have been mistaken. They remind me very much of how Pope John Paul II would not accept the accusations made against Fr Maciel of the Legionaries of Christ, over many years.
At the heart of such resistance is, I think, a deep refusal of both Popes to make a judgement against someone without clear and definitive proof of guilt. In this area (of abuse), I think such an attitude is deeply flawed and mistaken.
Also, with regard to Pope Francis, I noticed a decision he has made about the appointment in Nigeria of a bishop who was of a different tribe to the population in the area. The original choice of bishop was made by Pope Benedict and I believe that decision was a mistake. Over time, it really did seem increasingly apparent that the decision had been a mistake yet Pope Francis has shown a lack of flexibility (in my opinion) in insisting that the chosen bishop must be accepted. There seems a degree of mistaken authoritarianism involved.
I don't know how the Chile situation will resolve itself but the decision of the Pope to send Archbishop Scicluna to pursue the matter is a good one. The Archbishop played a significant role in finally uncovering the abuse of Fr Maciel to the satisfaction of the Vatican hierarchy. I hope and pray that there will be a similar result in this case.
Thank you for your honesty David.
One thing I notice with Governments is whenever they are in trouble they always appoint inquiries.
The Vatican has already had endless inquiries into this affair and reached conclusions. In addition the secular authorities have investigated
Now the poor victims are to be questioned again, a great pity and shame.
I might add I have no confidence whatsoever in the Holy Father to handle this problem whatsoever, his previous form has been totally abysmal Which leads on to the question if he has totally messed this grave matter what else has he made a disaster off/
Absolutely disgusting! PF is the Obama of catholicism and he should step down!
If I had done at work what Pope Francis did I would have been instantly dismissed for gross misconduct. As well as this I would have been referred to the police for very suspicious behaviour.
I suspect it would be the same nearly anywhere. I have never believed in Pope's resigning but this awful conduct would tempt me to reconsider. The damage he has done to the reputation of the Church in this matter is incalcuable.
May God forgive Him for this.
But my thoughts are with the victims of clerical child abuse everywhere who must feel as if through the Holy Father's words and actions they have been abused once more.
What, in the Name of God was he thinking?
You are smearing Saint Pope John Paul II with this comparison. There is no comparison between not accepting an allegation and actively overturning a verdict that has already been made, under the proper procedures of the Church. On what authority, and upon what evidence, did Pope Francis over-turn the decision of the CDF to bar Barros? This CDF decision, undertaken with the universally lauded procedures instigated by Pope Emeritus Benedict, is also supported by the verdicts in the Chilean legal process and the testimony of the victims, testimony that has been considered by both the Chilean courts and the CDF to be acceptable and believable. Not only did Pope Francis reinstate Barros, despite the CDF decision, he also cruelly condemned the victims as calumniators. Due to the consequent outrage, he modified this to condemning them merely as slanderers.
I do not trust this latest investigation. The verdicts of two sound investigations are already in. Almost everyone accepts them, on the evidence, except Pope Francis. Are we to expect the truth from an investigation called for the benefit of a man who has already given his own contrary verdict? If, in the great unlikelihood that Pope Francis does a u-turn on the issue, what are we to think? Will he publicly apologise to those he, in the light of such a reversal, will have shown himself to have publicly calumniated? Would such an admission of appalling error lead him to admit his even more egregious errors in his dismantling of the state-of-the-art Vatican system for dealing with clerical child-abuse, so patiently and painstakingly built up by Joseph Ratzinger, initially as head of the CDF and continued in his papacy? Would such an unlikely admission of error induce him to cease surrounding himself with notorious facilitators of those who would abuse, almost entirely male, children?
I would just like to know Pope Francis' reason for being so facilitating to the most creepy and, frankly, perverted groups imaginable, without making any condemnation of behaviour for which Our Lord had no hesitation in saying that, rather than engage in it, one would be better to find oneself thrown into the sea with a millstone around one's neck.
Just a thought. We know that within the Church at a very high level are those who hate Christ and His faithful. Some of these may surround the Holy Father and may be advising him. Behind and informing their words and actions would definitely not be the good of the Church or Her name and reputation. Neither would it be concern for any alleged victims. Rather it would be to operate in such a way as to cause great damage to the Church. How might they accomplish this? They know that the Church is vulnerable in this sensitive area. Very vulnerable indeed. They might recommend to the Holy Father that such and such a person not be promoted or appointed to a particular office or position. They might then recommend that on second thoughts such an approach is unjust and that the appointment should go ahead. So the Holy Father acts and reverses his original position. Cue media outrage. This is all in the full glare of the media spotlight. The damage is further increased by the Holy Father attempting to explain this turn of events by saying that he needs proof in order to act in a certain way. This is seen as tantamount to calling the alleged victims liars. Meanwhile in the background, unobserved, the enemies of Christ and His Church rub their hands with glee at the opprobrium that’s heaped on the Church. The Holy Father may be completely innocent in this. Certain persons may be manipulating him and badly advising him for their own agenda. I don’t know, just speculating.
I make no judgements in this as quite simply I am not fully conversant with all the facts of this particular case. It all seems very murky. Matters should be fully investigated, impartially and independently. Any victims must receive justice.
My main concern is infiltration of the Church. It is this infiltration which is the root cause of the massive damage suffered by the Church in my opinion. Yes there will have been bad behaviour and scandal owing to our fallen human nature and the fact that we live in a fallen and imperfect world. However the sheer scale of the devastation suggests strongly to me that there have been and are very powerful, hidden agents and forces at work in the Church whose mission is to weaken and damage it, all in a planned, controlled and coordinated manner. These are agents ultimately of Satan. There needs to be a forensic examination of all of those in all tiers of the Church, particularly in its upper echelons for any links to Masonic and similar organisations. I am convinced that the third secret of Fatima is that basically, simply put, the Freemasons have gained essentially almost complete control of the Vatican. The Bride of Christ, at least in its official organ in the Vatican has to all intents and purposes been kidnapped and is being held hostage by the enemies of Christ. This has been the long game. Instead of overthrowing the Church, her mortal enemies have infiltrated her and are savaging her from within.
Please check my post on the thread about Ireland. I found some astonishing info on YouTube related to wiki leaks the so called Catholic spring plot and what some prominent Catholics are asking if Pres. Trump. Hard to prove I guess. But they say it with such conviction and given what we've seen of the deep state cabal up to this point I don't entirely discount it. It explains a great deal.
This view is not implausible. However, Pope Francis didn't simply say he lacked proof, which it seems was available for him at the CDF, he took it upon himself to condemn the victims for calumny. Now, if one is going to impose standards of proof, a pope, of all people, should be aware that the same standards apply most of all to himself-yet he issued a notoriously public condemnation and where was his proof? Not the behaviour of an innocent.
The view that Pope Francis is some innocent naif may be plausible, but would it really survive a good shave with Ockham's Razor?
The best we could hope for on this hypothesis, I am sorry to say, is that, instead of a rogue for a pope, we have a complete incompetent. I think the former the most likely and retain the hope that prayer may yet produce conversion and repentance, accompanied by a very public disavowal of all this poison. An incompetent pope in the hands of these devils is little better for the Church than one who is in the swing with them.
I couldn't agree with you more.
Sadly, look at the odds. There are about 5,000 bishops in the world. The number of them who have chosen to sign up to Bishop Athanasius Schneider's recent noble defense of the Truth of Marriage currently stands at eight, most of these retired.
Just as the problem is preternatural, the solution can only be Supernatural. Dear Lord, bring it on.
The Holy Father is very,very highly educated.
He is very experienced in Pastoral matters as a Cardinal Archbishop.
He has the prayers of millions of Catholics around the world.
As a Catholic, never mind a Pope, he would be expected to be a man of very deep prayer.
Would it be too very much much to ask that if he were in the presence of evil men that he might know they were evil men? Would it be too much to expect that if evil courses of action were suggested to him that he would reject them?
Those in High Spiritual Office must be held to the highest standards. I am afraid I do not think any wool has been puled over the Papal Eyes. I assume he is a normal , functioning adult. I am concerned about his mental state, which is highly problematic, but that is another matter, it does in no way excuse him.
I have long, long since gone past the stage of trying to find excuses for him.
The whole thing is a catastrophe , a total disaster for the Church. His election to the Papacy has caused and will continue to cause total devastation.
He is a serious accident always waiting to happen.
Even a child learns from it's mistake; he appears incapable of even recognising them.
This was and is the very worst Papacy in the entire 2,000 history of the Church by a long way and he gives all appearances of just getting warmed up.
I could go on.....but what's the point?
( By the way this is my most charitable assessment. I have very dark, much darker suspicions, but charity forbids; I am just sick to death of the whole sad, sorry buiness. I am so glad my parents are not alive to see these agonising, awful days)
You may be right Padraig. I reserve judgement. I’m wary of making that call. That’s all. The devil is extremely cunning after all. I may not be his biggest fan but am loathe to attribute malice to him. I simply don’t know. It’s all extremely confusing. I stick to my simple faith. I’m not called to anything beyond that. I’m a simple, humble pewsitter. I don’t have the insight or knowledge to pronounce one way or another. May God forgive me if I’m in any way neglecting my duty. I don’t think I am however. I follow st Pios advice, pray, hope and don’t worry. Any wolves Among the flock or hirelings or false Shepherds will answer to God one day. Of that we can be sure.
By the way I know very well that that there are higher clergy reading these posts, for I have been told so. You, as well as I will have to answer to God for what we do and say in these grave times. Don't think for one moment that you will not have to account before the Just Judge for your guilty silence in these terrible, terrible times which you committed in the name of false , 'Prudence'.
The Lord Jesus will be very,very hard on you for this silence. You may very well be sent to hell.
Take Warning Father Bishops
Speak out while you still have time.
Separate names with a comma.