The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. AED

    AED Powers

    Who could deny what an ominous sign that was.
     
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  2. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    The irony with the Barros affair is that it is possible Pope Francis might have been right. One cannot have 'black-clad protestors' vetoing the appointment of bishops. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the Barros situation, it doesn't matter now. Pope Francis has been caught out denying something for which the 'proof', upon which he himself placed so much emphasis, has been unequivocally provided. At best, he can claim, for the unchallengeable chief executive of the world's largest institution, a very serious and damaging lapse of memory. At worst...
     
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  3. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    There are three alternative outcomes, among other less attractive ones, and I hope and pray for one of them.

    a). Pope Francis becomes demoralised and abandons all his progressive plans.

    b). Pope Francis undergoes a blessed reversion and chooses to distance himself from his previous policies and finishes his papacy as a conservative.

    c). Pope Francis resigns, of his own choosing or not, and is replaced by a new drain-the-swamp Pope, with a common man's accent (the latter not really essential, but it would be nice!).
     
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  4. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    [​IMG]

    Mon Feb 5, 2018 - 1:36 pm EST

    Pope Francis chooses pro-LGBT priest to guide Lent retreat who holds Jesus didn’t ‘establish rules’

    ROME, February 5, 2018 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Pope Francis has selected a Portuguese “priest-poet” to preach at his 2018 Lenten retreat who is an open promoter of the “critical theology” of a Spanish nun who defends the legalization of abortion and government recognition of homosexual “marriage” and adoptions.

    Father José Tolentino Calaça de Mendonça, vice rector of the Catholic University of Lisbon, wrote the introduction to the Portuguese translation of “Feminist Theology in History,” by Teresa Forcades, whom the BBC calls “Europe’s most radical nun.”

    In the introduction to Forcades’ work, Tolentino de Mendonça tells the reader that Jesus didn’t leave any rules or laws to mankind, an idea that he approvingly applies to Forcades’ “critical theology.”

    “Teresa Forcades i Vila reminds of that which is essential: that Jesus of Nazareth did not codify, nor did he establish rules,” writes Tolentino de Mendonça. “Jesus lived. That is, he constructed an ethos of relation, somatized the poetry of his message in the visibility of his flesh, expressed his own body as a premise.”

    When the Portuguese translation of the book was published in 2013 with Tolentino de Mendonça’s introduction, Forcades had well-established herself as an advocate for legalized abortion and the creation of homosexual “marriage.” In the same year she issued a video tribute to the Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chavez, who was then dying of cancer.

    Tolentino de Mendonça compares Forcades to Hildegard of Bingham, and says her theology is expressed in “a form that is symbolic, open, and sensitive about addressing the real” as opposed to the Church’s traditional way of speaking in clear, non-metaphorical terms, which he calls “the triumphal univocal grammars that we know.”

    “It’s necessary that the doctrinal narrative understands itself to be more of a reading than a writing, more like a voyage than a place, because the memory that transports is not reducible to a legal code, a vision, something automatic,” the priest writes.

    Such theology is given to us by Forcades, says Tolentino de Mendonça: “It is precisely here that the frightening [provoking] work of Teresa Forcades i Vila, Feminist Theology in History, which the reader has in his hands, comes to our aid.”

    In a 2016 interview with the Lisbon radio station Renascença, Tolentino de Mendonça blasted Catholics and particularly cardinals who have raised their voices in criticism of Pope Francis, dismissing their views as “traditionalism,” which he contrasted with authentic “tradition.”

    “Today, we see Pope Francis being contradicted by a more conservative wing of the Church and by some important names, even cardinals, which in a certain way are willing to place traditionalism above the tradition,” he said.

    Regarding Pope Francis “welcoming” attitude towards those who are stubbornly living in gravely sinful situations of homosexuality and adultery, Tolentino de Mendonça told the interviewer, “No one can be excluded from the love and mercy of Christ. And that experience of mercy has to be taken to everyone, whether they be Christians who are remarried, wounded by disastrous matrimonial experiences, whether it be the reality of new families, whether it be homosexual persons, who in the Church must find a space to be heard, a place of welcome and mercy.”

    Tolentino de Mendonca will preach and give spiritual guidance to Pope Francis and high curial officials during their retreat from February 18 to February 23 of this year.
     
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  5. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    Yep, but first they have to get that pesky Humanae Vitae out of the way.

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/v...apal-commission-exists-to-do-historical-revie
     
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  6. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    A glimpse at the Vatican's parallel universe: http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/new...catholic-social-doctrine-says-vatican-bishop/


    ‘China is the best implementer of Catholic social doctrine,’ says Vatican bishop


    by Staff Reporter
    posted Tuesday, 6 Feb 2018
    [​IMG]
    Bishop Marcelo Sanchez Sorondo (STR/AFP/Getty Images)
    The chancellor of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences praised the 'extraordinary' Communist state

    “Right now, those who are best implementing the social doctrine of the Church are the Chinese,” a senior Vatican official has said.

    Bishop Marcelo Sánchez Sorondo, chancellor of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, praised the Communist state as “extraordinary”, saying: “You do not have shantytowns, you do not have drugs, young people do not take drugs”. Instead, there is a “positive national conscience”.

    The bishop told the Spanish-language edition of Vatican Insider that in China “the economy does not dominate politics, as happens in the United States, something Americans themselves would say.”

    Bishop Sánchez Sorondo said that China was implementing Pope Francis’s encyclical Laudato Si’ better than many other countries and praised it for defending Paris Climate Accord. “In that, it is assuming a moral leadership that others have abandoned”, he added.

    He accused US president Donald Trump of being “manipulated” by global oil firms, and said that, as opposed to those who follow “liberal thought”, the Chinese are working for the greater good of the planet.

    The Vatican and China have been holding talks in recent years over the status of the ‘underground’ Church and the appointment of bishops. In November, the Vatican Museums also organised joint exhibitions with China in what was called “diplomacy of art”.

    As part of the diplomacy efforts, Bishop Sánchez Sorondo visited the country. “What I found was an extraordinary China,” he said. “What people don’t realise is that the central value in China is work, work, work. There’s no other way, fundamentally it is like St Paul said: he who doesn’t work, doesn’t eat.”

    Bishop Sánchez Sorondo concluded by saying that China is “developing well” and now has “many points of agreement” with the Vatican.

    “You cannot think that the China of today is the China of [the time of] John Paul II, or Cold War Russia,” he said
     
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  7. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    In the Third Temptation of Christ, the devil offered Our Lord the Kingdoms of the World. The Vatican is falling for it. They have come to see that, for them, food, health and worldly comforts represent 'transcendence'. This is the philosophy of the atheist. It is the antithesis of what Christ preached and what His Church has always taught. If this is the priority of the Church, why do we need it, at all? This so-called 'social doctrine' is a heresy and has nothing in common with that promulgated by Pope Leo XIII, who condemned socialism as an evil.

    This red bishop praises China that its economy doesn't dominate politics. This is true. In China, politics, in the guise of an all-powerful state, dominates everything else. The price for collaborating with this state, the Church will find, is that she will, on pain of elimination, have to pay homage to the state gods, whatever they are deemed to be. It is upon the refusal of her martyrs to pay this homage to the gods of Rome that the Church was built. It will be her corrupt, supine, cowardly eagerness to indulge the gods of the Chinese state and the rest of the secular world that will see the Church dismantled. Come, Lord Jesus.

    I doubt, when admonishing slackers, that St. Paul meant that work was the 'central value'.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
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  8. sterph

    sterph Archangels

     
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  9. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    View attachment 7434
     
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  10. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Most prophesies of chastisement speak of fire raining down. Perhaps God is going to put 'phasers on full'.
     
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  11. David Healy

    David Healy St Pio Son

    Times are growing ever more serious. I just watched a video on Our Lady of Akita. I believe it completely. As I do Fatima. We must pray and stay awake. Extra masses, rosaries, confession, adoration. Our Lady has been and is warning us. People of high rank suppressed the third secret of Fatima as they have tried to do with Akita. They cannot win, despite their hubris and arrogance against the Mother of God, Our Blessed Mother. She has already crushed his head. It will be spectacular to witness Our Blessed Mother crush him. The time is coming. There will be great pain and fear before that however. God in His infinite goodness and mercy is giving us more time. More time for people to wake up and turn back to him. His Arm has been stayed for a long time, thanks largely to the intercession of Our Lady, those devoted to Her and Her Son, Our Lord, those who have been praying and trying to remain faithful in these very trying times. The chastisement will be more devastating than the flood. Neither priests nor the faithful will be spared. Whatever one’s ecclesiastical title it matters not before Almighty God. Now is the time to work. Get the message out. Get people praying the rosary. Encourage people to go to confession, Adoration and extra masses. Spread the word.
     
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  12. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    But an official trip to China with all the pomp and ceremony and attendant publicity would be the crowning glory of his papacy. He could retire after making sure all the ducks were in a row to ensure a like-minded successor. Just imagine all those members of the Official Catholic Church being given the day off to hail their faith leader. Millions of them out on the street waving their Vatican and Chinese flags at the Pope and the Chairman. A win-win for the Pope and the Chinese government. What matter about those underground Bishops who have gone home to the farms after giving a lifetime's service and suffering to Christ and His Church. What's a few peasant bishops in comparison with all the bums on seats in shiny new offical state-approved church buildings?

    Y'know, I never paid any attention to the prophecy of St. Malacy, buying the line that it's a fake. Now I'm not so sure. The prophecy for the last Pope on his list is distinct from all the previous popes because it gives a name. LittleVoice pointed out to us that Peter the Roman was the actual name (not the papal name) of an anti-Pope when St. Malachy was alive and St. Malachy was a strong supporter of the real Pope. St. Malachy could have been prophecying that the last Pope would be another Peter the Roman - an anti-Pope. Then there's the prophecy of St. Francis:

    Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it under foot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor, but a destroyer.
    Those two prophecies are beginning to look genuine. I know that both those prophecies are dismissed but that's par for the course on prophecies about apostate prelates. What if they're genuine?
     
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  13. David Healy

    David Healy St Pio Son

    No matter what happens keep the faith. Stay in the barque of Peter no matter how bleak and bad things might seem. Live a simple faith. Keep your peace. Let’s encourage and support one another. Encourage anyone you can to get really serious now with prayer, the Sacraments etc. Encourage those who have fallen away to come back. Do not let yourself be scandalised and discouraged by events in the Church. Easier said than done I know. Counsel, educate, warn and evangelise. If they will not listen, move on. Let the dead bury the dead. As our Blessed Lord advised. Time grows short. Very short. Keep to the tried and tested faith of our fathers. Pay no heed to novelties or departures from the ancient and perennial teaching of the Church. There is no new gospel. There is only one gospel and we are told that even were an angel to preach a new gospel to ignore it. Pray, pray, pray. Keep it simple, mass, rosary, adoration, confession. Good works of spiritual or corporal mercy where possible. Let those charged with high office look to themselves. God is fully in control and will not be mocked. We are in a time of testing and sifting. The Lord holds His winnowing fan. He will not let anyone who is trying their best to cling to Him be lost. Trust in Him. Come Lord Jesus. Pray for those who have gone astray for their time too grows short.
     
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  14. David Healy

    David Healy St Pio Son

    Evangelisation is hard, very hard. Many people are comfortable, complacent even. But deep inside they are, I believe, troubled. They can feel things are unstable, not quite right. They sense it. But are in denial. Interestingly, when the false alarm in Hawaii recently of an incoming missile was sounded, people in their droves flocked to the churches for confession and prayer. Sometimes this is what it takes to get people to wake up. God knows this very well. In His permissive will He is allowing great evils in the Church and the world to take place. This in the desire that people will realise that something is very wrong and react accordingly. Sin brings its own punishment we know but God desires not punishment but conversion and our salvation. Evangelisation will get easier as things unfold. Which they will steadily. People will become scared and confused. Hold fast. Be strong to help them.
     
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  15. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    After watching Our Lady of Revelation part 8 - 2 for the third time in two days this comes as no surprise about many in the Church's thoughts concerning Chinese societal enforcement. As to the idea of no poverty in China this is absurd. China enforces travel bans in which people in abject poverty can not even travel from the country to the city to find gainful work.

    They are also very gracious neighbors to their starving NK brothers and sisters. This is why they have 300k soldiers stationed at the border to repel them because of their great societal love.

     
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  16. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Typical "catholic" social doctrine under Pope Francis. Only a "catholic" bishop in the Vatican today could call China (the greatest butchering of unborn babies the world has ever known), as the "best implementer of Catholic social doctrine". Could you imagine a bishop in the Vatican during the reign of St. Pope John Paul II or Pope Benedict saying this???? I have often wondered how these social justice clergy (and I have had them for 28 years as pastors) rarely if ever mention abortion within their social justice homilies. Yet 90+ percent of their homilies will speak to the poor and the immigrants. Unborn babies don't really matter to the social justice minded clergy. Sad, sad times. Our Lady of Sorrows pray for us.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
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  17. Booklady

    Booklady La Dolorosa

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  18. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    https://onepeterfive.com/breaking-point-papacy/

    A Breaking Point in the Papacy?
    Maike Hickson February 6, 2018 23 Comments
    [​IMG]
    At the beginning of 2018, Steve Skojec predicted that this year would mark “the beginning of the end” of Pope Francis’ power. It is now becoming increasingly clear that this pontificate might be facing several distinct points of fracture. Francis’ international standing is being undermined. There are at least five areas where the pope has become vulnerable: the Cardinal Marx scandal; the Bishop Barros abuse case; the Chinese crisis; the controversy concerning the upcoming World Meeting of Families in Ireland; and the growing resistance to Amoris Laetitia.

    Cardinal Marx and Homosexual Unions

    Let us first consider Cardinal Reinhard Marx’ welcoming comments concerning the idea to bless homosexual couples in the Catholic Church. While inviting such steps only for individual parishes, he made it clear that for him, homosexual acts are not any more a sin. This new “Marxist move” has caused much indignation among faithful Catholics in Germany, among them Mathias von Gersdorff.

    But Dr. Markus Büning – Catholic theologian and book author – has also lost his patience after the recent German push on the homosexual front. (Büning had, not long ago, and after an initial support of the four cardinals’ dubia, made a turn and signed the recent Pro-Pope Francis initiative.) Now, Büning has called upon Pope Francis to rectify the chaos caused by Marx. He is astonished that “one of the highest-ranking collaborators in the Church’s senate – Munich’s Archbishop, Cardinal Marx – can proclaim in front of the world a grave moral heresy” while merely proposing such a “liturgical affirmation” on the local level. Büning comments:

    It is rather funny that this kind of Catholic “case-by-case logic” would not also apply to those Catholics who now, after these scandalous demands of a bishop, seriously, for sure, consider leaving the Church of the “Church Tax” [“Kirchensteuer”-Kirche]

    While he does not propose to exit the Catholic Church, Büning makes it clear that this contradiction shows the “mercilessness of these shepherds.” The German theologian then proceeds to call out to Pope Francis to correct Cardinal Marx:

    In my view, it is now clearly up to him who holds the highest teaching office in the Universal Church – the pope. If he is silent with regard to such a demand – supposing that he knows of this bold demand of the C8 [sic] – Cardinal Marx [member of the pope’s council of cardinals] – one necessarily has to conclude that he approves of it. Then also the pope has a problem! […] Did the pope do it [approve of this Marxian approach], he would not fulfill his office and mission to preserve the unity of the Universal Church in questions of Faith and Morals in a credible manner.

    The Bishop Barros Scandal

    Some similar tones of concern come to us from Guido Horst – Rome Correspondent of the German Catholic newspaper Die Tagespost – who is also known for his usually conciliatory attitude toward Pope Francis. In the wake of the papal trip to Chile, Horst entitled an article with the words: “The Papacy at a Turning Point?” In it, he wrote about the papal visit to Chile and pointed out how this visit seems to have become a pivotal moment for Francis, inasmuch as he has earned much criticism for his demeaning remarks about those victims of sexual abuse who criticized him for protecting Bishop Juan Barros, accused of actively witnessing said abuse and doing nothing about it. Francis, says Horst, appointed Barros, “even though the Vatican Congregation for the Clergy, as well as the Chilean Nuncio, both had already come to the conclusion to ask Barros to resign.” The rumors against Barros as a man who covered up the misdeeds of his spiritual leader, Father Fernando Karadima, never stopped. According to Horst, Barros himself even offered his resignation, but the pope would not accept it.

    After the papal remarks in the airplane, where Francis demeaned the victims of abuse, Cardinal Seán O’Malley – the pope’s own top adviser on clergy sexual abuse – criticized the remarks, calling them “a source of great pain for survivors of sexual abuse by clergy.” As Horst comments:

    For the first time, it happened that one of the closest collaborators of the pope distanced himself from Francis; and that the pope himself backed off. Many had done the same earlier – the cardinals Joachim Meisner, Carlo Caffarra, Raymond Leo Burke, Walter Brandmüller, Robert Sarah, Gerhard Müller, or Janis Pujats of Riga. Francis ignored them all, but not the Capuchin O’Malley.

    In Horst’s eyes, the pope seemed to have “lost the favor of the media and of the public” in Chile.

    These critical words of Horst have been followed now by a much more stunning report from the secular press, namely that, already in 2015, Pope Francis had – against his own claims – received a piercing description of Barros’ involvement in the sexual abuse cases.

    The American Catholic journalist Michael Brendan Dougherty writes today at the National Review that no matter how one looks at the way the letter was handled, it signals a serious problem in papal leadership. And further: “The leaks about the hand-delivery of this letter to the pontiff may be evidence itself that senior churchmen are losing confidence in his pontificate. The barque of Peter sails into choppy waters.”

    The China-Vatican Compromise

    Additionally, Pope Francis is coming more and more under pressure for giving a friendly hand to the Communist-appointed bishops in China, and then even asking some faithful and suffering true bishops to resign. La Nuova Bussola Quotidiana‘s Riccardo Cascioli from Italy thus entitled one of his recent articles: “The Vatican’s ‘Long March’ Towards Surrender to China.” Scholar Steven Mosher, a Catholic author and expert on Chinese Communism, just effectively repeated this sentiment in an interview with EWTN’s Raymond Arroyo, saying that the Vatican’s negotiations with China are nothing more than “simply negotiating the surrender of the underground Church” to the false church created by the Communists.

    Con’t
     
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  19. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    Ireland and LGBT

    On top of all of these troubling developments, the pope is now being pushed into making a decision about where he stands with regard to the LGBT issue. At the beginning of February, the story broke that Mary McAleese, the former President of Ireland, had been barred by Cardinal Kevin Farrell – the head of the Dicastery for the Laity, Family, and Life – from speaking at a conference on women that was to take place on Vatican grounds. This act on the part of Cardinal Farrell has now provoked the indignation of the Archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid Martin, who claims not to have been consulted prior to this decision. McAleese is a prominent promoter of homosexual “marriage” and other progressivist agendas such as the ordination of women. Archbishop Martin himself is now concerned that his message of “inclusion” for the upcoming August 2018 World Meeting of Families – see our story on the homosexual imagery and themes in the program for this event here – would be negatively affected by this recent act of “exclusion” on the part of the Vatican. He insisted that this event – which Pope Francis has also been expected to attend – “will be an inclusive event, open to all families and family members.”

    In Ireland itself, pro-LGBT groups are so indignant about the recent decision by Cardinal Farrell that they now even advocate a removal of support for the World Meeting of Families and Pope Francis’ planned upcoming visit to Ireland.

    This seems to put Pope Francis at odds with both Ireland as a state, as well as with Archbishop Martin as the organizer of the upcoming Catholic event. On the other side, if he were to make a gesture toward them, he would have to make a signal of approving of the LGBT agenda. Only time will show how Pope Francis will resolve this conflict, a conflict where he will have to show where he truly stands in this matter.

    The Ongoing Resistance to Amoris Laetitia

    Last but not least: Amoris Laetitia does not stop causing serious disruptions in the Catholic Church, so much so that the number increases of those bishops who now have publicly come out to support the initiative of Bishop Athanasius Schneider – and two of his fellow bishops from Kazakhstan – to reject the idea of giving Holy Communion to adulterers. Just yesterday, Bishop emeritus Elmar Fischer, of Austria, added his name to the list of signatories; the other signatories are Bishop emeritus Andreas Laun (Austria), Auxiliary Bishop Marian Eleganti (Switzerland), Cardinal Janis Pujats (Latvia), the former Apostolic Nuntio Carlo Maria Viganò (Italy), Archbishop Luigi Negri (Italy), Bishop emeritus René Gracida (U.S.). Thus, the number of signatories has now increased to ten, with possibly more to come, according to our sources.

    It appears that these potential cracks in the pontificate of Francis could lead to a breaking point; one that could potentially stop — or at least weaken — the papal agenda of adapting the Church to the modern world in such a way that the fullness of the Catholic Faith is no longer recognizable. If so, it might bring needed relief to the many souls at stake.

    This post has been updated.
     
  20. Dean

    Dean Archangels

    Bullcrap, bullcrap bullcrap. Stop with this nonsense. This is so disrespectful to a living soon to be Saint. This man would have given his life for the Church, he was a man of courage not affraid of any fight. So you are saying he was so weak and a coward so he stepped down because politicians may have threatened him? Im sorry, but that is EXACTLY what you are saying. You will say no, this is not on him, but if he stepped down from pressure that is exactly what happened. If he stepped down because of pressure he was a coward not a fighter for Christ. And Pope Benidict was not that.
     
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