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The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Very important point in both of these posts!
    Thank you!
  2. Don_D

    Don_D Powers

    It is interesting and I find it somewhat cunning that an honor such as this Pontifical honor is awarded to a person such as this. It undermines the validity of such an honor by awarding it to such a person.
    When awards are given to those who do not merit them what do we have?

    Medals with no merit.jpg

    I have been asking myself if this is not the purpose in the first place. Surely I can not know what is in a persons heart, however, actions after a time become a telling act in themselves. I remember when President Obama was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. The prize itself was soiled by this action which had no merit, relegating it to peoples minds as something of no intrinsic value. Who has paid any attention to it since then? It is a telling sign IMO. One bad apple...
    Light, AED, Mary's child and 4 others like this.
  3. josephite

    josephite Powers

    Are passive aggressive gestures, an indication of a disguised fraudulent intent?

    Passive-aggressiveness, as the word indicates, is a tendency to engage in indirect expression of hostility through acts such as subtle insults, sullen behavior, stubbornness, or a deliberate failure to accomplish required tasks.

    A person is said to act with fraudulent intent when he either with a view to benefit himself or his ideology, does by misleading others through statements, omissions, undertakings or representations that which he knows to be false or that which his office is required to uphold

    Just a thought in regards to the confusing statements, the opposing moral stances and conflicting gestures that we are trying to decipher!
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
    Light, AED and DeGaulle like this.
  4. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    Hmmm...doesn't "that one will be accursed" (i.e God will act) differ from "let that one be accursed" (i.e., whoever the false gospel is being preached to accurses the said preacher)?
  5. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    Yes, he indeed is most definitely a demonstrable material heretic, and I DO NOT need any Churchmen to tell me that.

    The day may come when cardinals grow a spine and formally charge him with obstinate and formal heresy. He has certainly already done enough to be charged as such and the cowardice of Churchmen to act in the face of these facts does not change the fact that, yes, he is a heretic.
    SgCatholic likes this.
  6. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member


    More proof that Francis’ pontificate has been ‘hijacked’ by the ‘Gay Lobby’
    Christine de Marcellus Vollmer
    giulio napolitano / Shutterstock.com
    January 12, 2018 (LifeSiteNews) – The revelations of homoerotic, blasphemous art in the Cathedral of Terni, commissioned in 2006 by Archbishop Paglia, now the head of the dicastery that oversees the St. John Paul II Institute for Studies in Marriage and Family worldwide, had already raised several vital issues that needed to be urgently addressed.

    The exposition of homoerotic art in Archbishop Paglia’s Cathedral from 2006 left the world asking the important question of how he could ever have been chosen to lead the Pontifical Council for the Family and later the Pontifical Academy for Life and the John Paul II Institute for Studies in Marriage and Family, when he clearly opposes the Church’s teaching on sexual morality.

    This question in itself requires an inquiry as to the intentions and criteria used within the Vatican for appointments under Pope Francis.

    Archbishop Paglia’s use of homoerotic art reinforced the earlier views presented to the Vatican by several Catholic mental health professionals, that Archbishop Paglia should be suspended from his responsibilities at the Vatican and be required to undergo a mental health evaluation.

    This evaluation would correspond to the Dallas charter concerning Sexual Abuse and further required because of his role in the development of the grossly erotic Meeting Point online sex education program when he led the Pontifical Council for the Family. That damaging program for youth is now under review and, hopefully, reform.

    But Paglia was promoted.

    Already Public concern about the policies placing Catholic youth at risk of abuse had been intensified by Pope Francis’ restoring to priestly ministry an Italian priest who was laicized by Pope Benedict for homosexually abusing adolescent males. This priest relapsed, homosexually abusing a youth, and was arrested.

    The rumors of the Vatican being in the clutches of a ‘gay lobby’ seem each day to be further confirmed. Parents will increasingly retire their children from religious-run schools and parochial activities. A sad result of what is billed as ‘compassion’ and ‘mercy.’

    The protection of Catholic marriages, families and youth depend upon a correct resolution of these scandals.

    Even more alarming, however, is the teaching coming out of a series of conferences being held at the Gregorian University on Humanae Vitae.

    Added to the deviant suggestions made and over-ruled at the Synods on the Family, the same subtle, but insistent, approval for homosexuality is making its way again toward what would seem intended to be acceptance of what was expressed by one speaker, French Jesuit Father Alain Thomasset, as “homosexual relationship lived in stability and fidelity can be a path of holiness”

    One need not be an expert to see the incremental presentation by Vatican ‘authorities’ of homosexuality as a legitimate use of sexuality, even by priests and religious. Priests recently “come out” are praised by their bishops, further splitting the Church in matters of Christian morality.

    New evidence of the collusion of privileged prelates and special friends in the priesthood toward the destruction of Catholic moral teaching surfaced in the Gregorian University conference on Humanae Vitae.

    A certain Father Maurizio Chiodi was allowed to present the entirely heretical theory that objectively evil acts do not exist; that all is subject to the judgment of the individual.

    On that basis, he went on to declare that “contraception can be a good and even a duty.” It is obvious that, if uncorrected, this is a sign of two important things:

    1. A clever strategy to demolish the 2000 years of Catholic morality assembled in Humanae Vitae and Veritatis Splendor, and thereby permit all deviant sexual practices, and
    2. Apparent proof that Chapter 8 of Amoris Laetitia does, in fact, contain heretical teaching. Chiodi bases his entire argument in favor of relativism, situation ethics and contraception upon this chapter. There is no other authoritative teaching that would allow him to do this.
    There is concern worldwide that the Pontificate of Francis has been hijacked by the ‘Gay Lobby’ so discussed of late and that he is manipulated by homosexual prelates.

    It is time that Pope Francis take a firm stand in favor of Catholic Moral Doctrine, distancing himself from those who favor homosexuality as an alternate form of ‘love’ and from the notion that ‘anything goes, if you feel good about it.’

    Editor's note: Christine de Marcellus Vollmer is president of Provive and a former member of the Pontifical Academy for Life as well as the Pontifical Council for the Family.
    josephite and SgCatholic like this.
  7. Mario

    Mario Powers

    I have yet to fathom the burden of horror which we have now been asked to carry. This is an opportunity par excellence to embrace redemptive suffering. The following is from Fr. John Hardon's Pocket Catholic Dictionary:

    p. 421 Its purpose, however, is not only to expiate wrongdoing, but to enable the believer to offer God a sacrifice of praise of his divine right over creatures, to unite oneself with Christ in his sufferings as an expression of love, and in the process to become more like Christ, who, having joy set before him, chose the Cross, and thus "to make up all that is still to be undergone by Christ for the sake of His Body, the Church (Col 1:24).

    Part of this suffering will entail ruffling others' feathers when it is necessary, and making a stand or even ultimately embracing martyrdom. For if the suppression of the Eucharist (the Abomination of Desolation) is soon to be upon us then let us rejoice in this opportunity to give witness as did the English martyrs, or even as those in the Middle East have done in recent years.

    This is the real thing!:eek: I have decided to follow Jesus...no turning back!

    Safe Under Mary's Mantle!
    Light, AED, Mary's child and 9 others like this.
  8. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    In some translations, 'anathema' is used instead of 'accursed':

    Galatians 1:8-9Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
    8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.

    9 As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.

    According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary:
    Definition of anathema
    1a : one that is cursed by ecclesiastical authority
    b : someone or something intensely disliked or loathed —usually used as a predicate nominative
    • … this notion was anathema to most of his countrymen.
    • —Stephen Jay Gould
    2a : a ban or curse solemnly pronounced by ecclesiastical authority and accompanied by excommunication
    b : the denunciation of something as accursed
    c : a vigorous denunciation : curse
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  9. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I am afraid this is so. It is really, really sad, but it is so. I know he is Pope and folks want to cut him loads of slack, but this can only go so far.
  10. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Yes, I try to look for silver linings and be positive Terry. Some positive effects on my own spiritual life is that it has forced me to use my head rather than my heart a lot more. To do a lot of reading and study, to be less solitary and more communal in my attitudes. To question more to reflect a lot more, to pray a lot more for the Pope , for priests for others, to reach out more, to be more reflective. These are no bad things.

    But they come with a very,very high price tag. It s not really Pope Francis that worries me so much ; it is the guy(s) they are going to elect next. Once you leave the door open and a stray dog wanders in you might end up with a house full of stray dogs. Pope Francis is electing more and more of his own stamp as Cardinals; it scares the life out of me.
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  11. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    I agree with DeGaulle.

    Only God can help us with this grave crisis, the worst the Church has ever endured.
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  12. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    We must be careful here. I don't agree with you that we can declare him a material heretic, again he's been very careful. But your original post does not make that vital distinction. You also charged him with 'teaching' heresy. Is it logical to accuse a material heretic of teaching it-doesn't the awareness to teach imply formality? Again, I stress we must be careful. The meaning of words means nothing to those who can make two two's five, but it is essential we get it exactly right.
    HeavenlyHosts, AED and Mary's child like this.
  13. Mea Kulpa

    Mea Kulpa Angels

    This is the reality of the situation just because "God has it under control" and we must "wait for God to sort it out" it does not mean we are exempt from doing anything instead of seeing these times with eyes of fear or our hearts being troubled instead we should see them as a time of grace and oportunity of redemptive suffering through authentic christian/catholic witness by witnessing to the truth we would be helping to save souls
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  14. josephite

    josephite Powers

    Hi DeGaulle,
    Thank you for your like for my post #4283:)

    I have a few questions!

    Why do you think Pope Francis is being wily?

    And what is a reason someone would be wily?

    Do you think that behind the seeming passive aggressive insults to our faith, PF may very well have fraudulent intent?
    Or do you think there is no ulterior motive to his undertakings?

    I think this is the whole crux of the matter we are discussing....................................What is his intent?

    I have never sat on uncomfortable fences, and yet it feels like I am forced to watch from the sidelines [a narrow wall of razor wire], as my church is being ripped apart by ravenous, feral wild dogs. And my prayers for the Church seem to be going unanswered!

    I feel alone!

    I suffer like most here on the MoG forum and other catholic people, with many family members living worldly lives and the pain one goes through to even get them to listen is astronomical! yet we are expected to carry this cross without any consolation! without any help! without Our Dad, Our Papa, Our Pope!

    I feel like a toddler after his father [pope] dies and his mother [Catholic Church] has run off with the milkman.

    What happens to that poor child and his siblings?

    This is just a rhetorical question.

    God Bless.
  15. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    Anyone who knows their Faith can recognize material heresy. Making exceptions to the exceptionless teaching of the Church that those living in objectively grave sin must not approach Holy Comminion IS material heresy! Period.

    I don’t need a cardinal to tell me that. A well catechized grade schooler can identify this kind of material heresy, and this pope IS teaching such through AL and his subsequent words and actions regarding chapter 8 of AL.

    This is material heresy, and this pope is teaching it. There is simply no debating this!
    SgCatholic likes this.
  16. An Guilbneach

    An Guilbneach Mane Nobiscum Domine

    Just a thought on the Papal award that was given. Is it the case that Pope Francis wants to move away from these awards. To give it to to someone who appears not to have earned it renders the award meaningless
  17. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    This is in my opinion, is the larger concern for the Church today. At this point it is obvious those silent Cardinal's, to the constant teachings of the Catholic faith, are the in the majority. They have not rallied around the truth. Because of this, I see clearly what many credible messengers from God are saying today as a direct warning to us to prepare for much worse events to come. The Church and the world will be purified in a large way for its apostasy to God's unchanging truths. Once it is scattered, it will open up the door for an antipope to be elected and I believe, as so much credible prophecy foretells, the Antichrist. Does the church or the world deserve better? I think not. The Church that Christ founded has lost its salt and just like, last supper picture I have from my grandparents shows a salt shaker tipped over in front of Judas and the salt spilled on the table, so it seems with many, if not most of the bishops and cardinals today. They have lost their salt in their silence! Does King Henry and his apostate bishops of England ring a bell? The Church will split, the good will be martyred and evil will seem to have won the day.
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
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  18. Mary's child

    Mary's child Archangels

    Amen and agreed. Thanks Fatima.
  19. AED

    AED Powers

    Like like like like!!!!
    josephite likes this.
  20. Don_D

    Don_D Powers

    And Saints will both raise their voices and be created in martyrdom for the Truth if it pleases God. A bit off topic but it came to mind after reading your post.

    (109) (7*) From the wedlock of Christians there comes the family, in which new citizens of human society are born, who by the grace of the Holy Spirit received in baptism are made children of God, thus perpetuating the people of God through the centuries. The family is, so to speak, the domestic church. In it parents should, by their word and example, be the first preachers of the faith to their children; they should encourage them in the vocation which is proper to each of them, fostering with special care vocation to a sacred state.

    I think it is this Church which they are truly after. The destruction of the family. If the Church no longer teaches truthfully or defends the sacredness and Holy virtues of the Family is it preaching the Gospel?
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