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The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    Pope Francis Awards Architect of Safe-Abortion Fund with Pontifical Honor
    Michael Hichborn2018-01-12


    On January 12, reports began surfacing on Twitter that Lilianne Ploumen, former Minister for Foreign Trade and Development Cooperation in the Netherlands, was honored by Pope Francis with the title of Commander in the Pontifical Equestrian Order of St. Gregory the Great. The Lepanto Institute was able to confirm from a December 22, 2017 Dutch radio broadcast that Ploumen indeed received the honor. In a brief video clip promoting the broadcast, Ploumen displays the medal while saying that she received it from the Pope.

    Here is the video:

    Here is a crude translation of the exchange:

    BNR – And this is the umpteenth prize that Lilianne Ploumen observes, won in 2017 and from whom they came.
    Ploumen – Yes, it is a high distinction from the Vatican; from the pope.
    BNR – From the pope.
    Ploumen – Beautiful.
    BNR – Yes.
    Ploumen – It is Commander in the order of St. Gregory.
    BNR – And that despite that you are pro-abortion.
    Ploumen – Yes you can check.

    To say that Lilianne Ploumen is “pro-abortion” is an extreme understatement and doesn’t even come close to the scandalous reality of her activism.

    [​IMG]In January of last year, after US President Donald Trump reinstated the Mexico City Policy, Ploumen launched a new NGO called She Decides to provide mass amounts of funds to organizations that would no longer receive funds from the US government. The Mexico City Policy automatically denies US funding for international organizations which perform or promote abortion.

    Referring to the Mexico City Policy as a “Global Gag Rule,” Ploumen stated that the intention of She Decides was to continue support for existing programs being run by organizations such as the United Nations Population Fund (UNPFA), the International Planned Parenthood Federation and Marie Stopes International. She said, “These are successful and effective programs: direct support, distributing condoms, making sure women are accompanied at the birth, and making sure abortion is safe if they have no other choice.”

    By July of 2017, Ploumen’s program had raised over $300 million.

    In October of 2017, Ploumen wrote an article for the Financial Times, in which she emphatically stated, “America’s regressive policies on abortion are a calamity for girls’ and women’s rights that the rest of the world must counter.”

    Ironically, just a few days ago, Ploumen was awarded the Machiavelli Prize “for her campaign for the safe abortion fund SheDecides.” The article on the award indicates that “The Machiavelli prize is awarded to a person or organization which the jury considers has excelled in public communication. In particular, the jury praised the speed at which SheDecides was set up and went global.”

    It is worth noting that from 2004-2007, Ploumen was the Director of Programs and on the Board of Directors for CORDAID, the Dutch Catholic aid relief agency that was caught funding Planned Parenthood and dispensing contraception.

    [​IMG]But Ploumen’s anti-Catholic activity isn’t restricted to abortion. In September of 2017, Ploumen participated in the United Nations LGBTI Core Group. As the first speaker at the event, Ploumen noted that “LGBTI rights are human rights.” In her opening remarks, she said, “We cannot be complacent. [Today] in more than 70 countries homosexuality is still criminalized…stigma against LGBT people continue all over the world.”

    In 2014, Ploumen ended foreign aid to the country of Uganda for passing a bill banning sodomy and same-sex “marriage.”

    In February of 2010, Ploumen called on LGBT activists to descend upon and disrupt Mass at St. John the Baptist Cathedral, wearing pink triangles with the words “Jesus excludes no one.” The reason? She and other pro-LGBT activists were protesting the Church’s moral teaching regarding homosexuality.

    The Pontifical Equestrian Order of St. Gregory the Great was established in September 1831 by Pope Gregory XVI. The honor of membership in the Order is conferred on individuals for their “personal service to the Holy See and to the Roman Catholic Church, through their unusual labors, their support of the Holy See, and their excellent examples set forth in their communities and their countries.”

    It remains to be seen what service Lilianne Ploumen has provided for the Catholic Church or the Holy See, given her staunch support for homosexuality, abortion and contraception. Given that the one thing that Lilianne Ploumen is known for in the past year is the establishment of a fund that provides hundreds of millions of dollars to organizations that commit abortion and dispense contraception, it is difficult, if not impossible, to separate her recent Pontifical honor from this grievous and scandalous act.
  2. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    The attack on marriage and the Real Presence in the eucharist, the open attack on Humanae Vitae, the use of Vatican organizations to spout global warming and population control agendas diametrically opposed to our Faith, giving awards to known abortionists and abortion promoters, the constant harangue of orthodox Catholics?

    I'm fed up!

    He will get no more of this overly scrupulous deference from me.

    He is a heretic and an enemy of the Gospel!
    SgCatholic and maryrose like this.
  3. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Well that is something I cannot do in good conscience.
    And that is not my scrupulosity.

    Laying the title of heretic upon someone is something I do not think it is wise for any layman to do. In fact I think it can be detrimental to the person's soul. Notice that those with actual authority to do so do not even approach making a statement like that. I think that most of us have grown up in democracies where we feel free to label anyone and everything. Sometimes we are far too free in our use of language. We will be judged on every idle word we speak.
  4. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    This is disgusting and an absolute disgrace!
  5. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    There! Great! I knew you could do it!

    (Now you know why I had my dander up. This is getting ridiculous! And we're "bad" Catholics for calling a heretic and enemy of the Gospel exactly that?!?)
    SgCatholic and Don_D like this.
  6. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

  7. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Something will give soon.
    They are moving faster and faster every day.
    Many in the hierarchy (and laity) are Catholic no longer.
    Indeed they do not even understand what it is to be Catholic.
    Light likes this.
  8. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I was praying about this to Our Lady about all this a few weeks back Brian and what I got back was this:

    The situation we are living in now is not to different than it was then. The religious authoriites were mostly either bad, evil or indifferent. Yet the Holy Family stayed subject to them.

    Jesus preached the truth yet they hung the Lamb of God up on a Cross.

    His leaving us seemed liked an Annihilation..BUT..

    Personally I have to agree ; Pope Francis is a arrant l heretic; I said this long ago; but its up to the Cardinals to act on this

  9. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I think we have to face up to this, Pope Francis really is a heretic, an out and out heretic; very, very bad news indeed. There's just no getting away from this. It's just a simple fact.

    If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. There's just no good pretending it's not.

    He tries to do it with a certain stealth but the just makes him a thousand times more dangerous; that's just the way Satan does things. But at this stage of the game both himself his Cardinal buddies are way out in the open; they're all crazy far out heretics.

    I mean they look Martin Luther look cool. Martin was outside pissing in; these guys run the show and they're on the inside; at the top, pissing down on all of us.

    I'm sorry, that's just the way it is.

    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
    BrianK likes this.
  10. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Just some ponderings I had on the Act of Contrition.

    It should be clear to anyone that the current Act of Contrition as it now stands is not merciful enough to fit into the new Church.

    The prayer as it currently reads:

    O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended you and I detest all my sins, because of your punishments, but most of all because they offend you, my God, who are all-good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve, with the help of your grace, to sin no more and to avoid the near occasions of sin. Amen.

    That last sentence will need to be amended to read something along the lines of:

    However, I do not intend to avoid sinning again or avoid the near occasions of sin, but my situation is complicated so it’s okay.

    In fact maybe we should get rid of that whole “punishments” part as it seems pretty negative. Plus people might not really be totally sorry or they would amend their lives so that part has to go too.

    Maybe this could be the new prayer:

    Hey thanks for the forgiveness. I am a little sorry for some of the things I’ve done. I plan on committing adultery or some other sin right after I leave here, but I don’t think it’s that big a deal because everything is subjective, right? Plus sin is like really hard to avoid.
    AED likes this.
  11. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    Yes, now so manifestly obvious, I frankly don’t need a cardinal to tell me or grant me permission to say it.
    Mea Kulpa and SgCatholic like this.
  12. padraig

    padraig New Member

    ..and the title of the thread is..

    'The Vatican has Fallen'

    BrianK likes this.
  13. padraig

    padraig New Member

    'Pope Francis is confused' , 'Pope Francis is being mislead'

    I mean really get real.

    He's the real deal.

    I mean the real, real, real, really bad deal
    SgCatholic, Don_D and BrianK like this.
  14. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    In charity the term heretic is only used today to describe someone guilty of formal heresy as opposed to material heresy. No one in the hierarchy has called Pope Francis a formal heretic.

    My personal opinion is that it is wiser to err on the side of caution. We all know what is going on and we all know that there are things being proposed in the Church which are not Catholic.


    Canon 1404 in the Code of Canon Law states that the First See is judged by no one, least of all me, so I will not be proclaiming the Pope a heretic.

    Can. 1404 The First See is judged by no one.
    An Guilbneach likes this.
  15. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member


    It is a disservice to faithful orthodox Catholics NOT to warn them that AL contains heresy and the recent publication of this pope’s letter to the Argentinian bishops confirming their heretical interpretation being called part of the magisterial teachings is itself heretical.

    I’m beyond scrupulously worrying about semantics.

    This pope is a heretic teaching heresy.

    I love Christ’s Real Presence in the Eucharist too much to stay silent in the face of the sacrilege being advanced by this papacy.
    Mea Kulpa and SgCatholic like this.
  16. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Correct. We will see what we will see...
  17. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    The point is Catholic teaching does develop, but it can never change. Pope Francis is clearly trying to change settled doctrine of the faith. Again, if a puppy becomes a dog that is development, but if a puppy becomes a cat that is change. One only has to look at how he is trying so hard to spin the truth on Adultery and somehow, long after the 6th commandment of God and long after Christ reiteration that "if any man divorce his wife and marries another he commits adultery" this doctrine can now be changed to reflect a more pastoral approach of appeasement to the modern world. Wake up before it is to late!! Not much time left before God's purification becomes global.
    Light, Booklady and SgCatholic like this.
  18. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    No, he's not. He has been wily enough not to cross the line. He knows he might do so if he responds to the Dubia-hence, silence. Even if he appears to cross that line, it is not given to the likes of us on this website to deem him guilty of heresy. I, myself, have nothing like the sanctity or learning or authority to even consider the possibility of such a declaration. I will satisfy myself with disliking him and considering that, like many before him, he might be a sinful pope. He is, at a very best that I can't bring myself to uphold, completely misguided.
    Light, Booklady, josephite and 2 others like this.
  19. Don_D

    Don_D Powers

    He knows exactly what he is doing. And so do these people who make excuses for it.
    padraig and SgCatholic like this.
  20. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    We should all take Saint Paul's advice, but I see no advice there to disrespect authority. He did not tell us to disrespect angels from Heaven, but said that one will be accursed-God will sort it out. In the meantime, we just hold on to the Gospel Truth we have received from the Apostles and Saint Paul. I also read in these verses that we first choose to please God. That I assume to mean that we believe God's Truth no matter what the consequences from those humans who might not agree.

    All this seems consistent with the traditional teaching of the Church regarding obedience to authority. But it certainly indicates that there are limits to the jurisdiction of that authority over us.

    If a pope becomes a heretic, he automatically would cease to be pope, as I understand it, but this is not a decision any of us here are qualified to make, so we are obliged to rely on the authority of others who are. There is no getting away from obedience for we infantry types. We are only good for being prayer-fodder. To begin to reject authority per se would be to take a very blind step into the unknown. I'd be very wary of it.
    Light and Praetorian like this.

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