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The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    First of all we must respect and acknowledge their legitimate authority. That is the prime factor. They may never exercise that authority, or exercise it properly, but it is there.

    Secondly we must follow all legitimate commands, even suggestions. If Pope Francis or our Bishop asks us to pray for the poor then it would be a good idea to do so.

    Remember people are complex, even someone you might term a "false shepherd" is probably not 100% against everything in the faith. I think you would be very hard pressed to find any Bishop in the world who fits that description. Even a bishop who varies greatly from the faith may still exercise legitimate authority. It is not our job to judge them as people. God put all of us on the lowest rung of the ladder for a reason. Luckily our job is much simpler. We don't need to solve all of these problems. We just need to be small and pray and lead a holy life as best we can.
  2. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Actually SG, I would guess that there is truly more Grace to be gained by humbling ourselves and following the legitimate commands of a Bishop or Pope who we may not care for than there is in following the commands of one we like.
    Dolours, HeavenlyHosts, AED and 2 others like this.
  3. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    "...Bergoglio’s famous grandmother, being a fervent anti-Fascist": I'd like to see some elaboration on that. My first reaction is to suspect her of communism.
  4. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Some martyrs have paid with their lives for the Truth that the Vatican is currently selling us out on.

    Blessed Laura Vicuna

    Mac and SgCatholic like this.
  5. Carol55

    Carol55 Powers

    There is a prophecy from a Father Nectou included in Rev. R. Gerald Culleton's book, "The Prophets and Our Times" (1941) and also in Yves Dupont's book, "Catholic Prophecy: The Coming Chastisement" (1970) which may be speaking about what we seeing happening right now. The prophecy offers the advice to pray fervently and speaks of better days to come. I also think it may be referencing the Warning, "a little general judgment", just my opinion. Miracles have been attributed to this priest and since he lived in France his prophecies focus on France a bit more. Here is the prophecy which I think may be helpful at the moment:

    137a. Father Nectou, S.J. (d. 1772)

    "When those things come to pass which will bring on the triumph of the Church, then will such confusion reign on earth that people will think God has permitted them to have their own contrary will and that the providence of God is not concerned about the world. The confusion will be so general that mankind will not be able to think aright, as if God had entirely withheld his providence from mankind, and that, during the worst crisis, the best that can be done would be to remain where God has placed us, and persevere in fervent prayer.

    "Two parties will be formed in France which shall fight unto death. The party of evil will at first be stronger; the good side shall be weaker. At that time there shall be such a terrible crisis that people, frightened by events, shall believe that the end of the world is come. Blood shall flow in several large cities. The very elements shall be convulsed. It will be like a little general judgment. A great multitude of persons shall perish in these calamitous times. But the wicked shall never prevail. They indeed shall conspire for the destruction of the Church; but time shall not be allowed them, because this frightful crisis shall be of a short duration. When all will be considered lost, all shall be found safe.

    "During this revolution (Communist?), which shall very likely be general, and not confined to France, Paris shall be destroyed so completely that, twenty years afterwards, fathers walking over its ruins with their children, these will inquire what place that was. To whom they will answer: My child, this was formerly a great city, which God has destroyed on account of her crimes. Paris shall certainly be destroyed, but before this occurs, such signs and portents shall be observed, that all good people will be induced to fly away from it. After this most terrible event, everything shall return to order; justice shall reign in the world, and the counter-revolution shall be accomplished. The triumph of the Church will then be so complete that nothing like it shall ever be seen, for this will be the last victory of the Church upon earth. Those persons who shall behold this last revolution will thank God for having preserved them to witness this glorious triumph of the Church."
  6. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    The problem with this, for me at least, is that it goes against scripture, against what St Paul preached, according to Galatians 1:

    There Is No Other Gospel
    6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 not that there is another gospel, but there are some who are confusing you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let that one be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so now I repeat, if anyone proclaims to you a gospel contrary to what you received, let that one be accursed!

    10 Am I now seeking human approval, or God’s approval? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still pleasing people, I would not be a servant of Christ.

    Paul’s Vindication of His Apostleship
    11 For I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel that was proclaimed by me is not of human origin; 12 for I did not receive it from a human source, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

    This surely does not ask us to respect the authority of those who preach a different gospel. Souls are at stake. Such deceivers are to be accursed.
    josephite likes this.
  7. AED

    AED Powers

    SG I believe we are never obliged out of respect for the office to condone or commit sin. We are obliged to speak the truth for Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life. Our suffering is so acute because we must endure real spiritual anguish caught between a pontiff who seemingly changes or denies basic 2000 year old doctrines of the Church and our desire to obey God by remaining faithful to His Vicar on earth. I do not believe God will leave us orphaned. I believe we must offer this up and pray for this Pontiff and the Church but always remain faithful to the Truth Who is Christ even if it means being insulted or mocked or ignored or God forbid--thrown out. Jesus warned of this when He said a time will come when they will throw us out believing they are doing a good thing.
  8. padraig

    padraig New Member

    In a way what is happening here is a bit like a stone that is thrown in a lake. You might say , what difference does it make these things are no concern of mine? But watch the ripples of the stone as thy spread across to every part of the lake. So it is with moral corruption, their effects will spread until they poison every part of the body.

    If these things, these evils are alllowed to stand the Body itself will die. We have already seen this in the Old Testament when the Prophets stood out against like evils.

    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
    Carol55, SgCatholic, sunburst and 3 others like this.
  9. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I am sorry you feel that way. I was not speaking against Scripture. The Church is the one who interprets Scripture for us and she tells us to respect those appointed in authority over us in all things but sin.
    HeavenlyHosts likes this.
  10. padraig

    padraig New Member

    It is difiicult indeed and seems a paradox but Francis is the Pope. If the Cardinals want to act they can, they have the authority to act in this matter , they stand in the Shoes of the Apostles; we do not. in all lawful matters we still owe him obedience.

    But I beliieve God Himself will act

    Tu es Petrus.

    You are Peter.

    HeavenlyHosts and AED like this.
  11. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    At some point, we are going to have to answer for why we didn't do more to defend the Faith and warn innocent Catholics against a heretic preaching heresy from Peter's chair.

    We are giving far too much deference to this heretic, and history will look poorly upon us for it.
  12. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers


    At 11:15 minutes into the show Raymond slams Walford.

    "I've done some research on Mr. Walford. Near as I can tell he is a piano teacher with no other credentials theologically or otherwise except for a Papal visit with his family."
    AED likes this.
  13. padraig

    padraig New Member

    He does, it is like Eagles swatting a gnat. But they do so with great charity. A good lesson, they do not get down in the gutter with him. I admire this. The bad guys in the Vatican must have been having a silly day when they choose Walford as some kind of champion , he couldn't even make a case when he was here.

    All he ever did was very bad temper and wild mud slinging. He always looked like he woke up in the morning in a foul mood and went to bed at night in an even fouler; he must be hard to live with.

    Like I said, a pain.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  14. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    What would you have me do?
    I mean that seriously. I am searching for what I can do. I have no authority or qualifications. All I can think to do is post what I know on the net and try to help show others the truth and get the word out to whoever has ears to hear. I think this wonderful little family here on MOG helps me (and others) do that. I've thought about opening a Youtube channel or something like that, but apart from that I have no idea what to do.
    What can any of us do?

    Pray, hold on and try to bolster each other's faith. That is all I know.
    I wish I was of some more use, but I am a poor vessel.
    AED, HeavenlyHosts, DeGaulle and 2 others like this.
  15. padraig

    padraig New Member

    This is true,

    We can pray, we can protest, we can petition.

    But it boils down to waiting on the Most High to act.

    Psalm 5:3

    …2Heed the sound of my cry for help, my King and my God, For to You I pray. 3In the morning, O LORD, You will hear my voice; In the morning I will order my prayer to You and eagerly watch. 4For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; No evil dwells with You.…

    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
    AED, HeavenlyHosts, DeGaulle and 2 others like this.
  16. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Yes, picking Walford makes absolutely zero sense.
    No qualifications at all.
    The Vatican is full of left-leaning theologians, why not pick one of them?
    As much as I might disagree with them at least they have credentials.
  17. padraig

    padraig New Member

    We are well in truly in the Lion's Den; but God is down there with us; but if God is with us , who can stand against us?

  18. padraig

    padraig New Member

    The reason why they picked Walford was they liked him...

    The reason why they liked him is...

    they are not unlike him...

    birds of a feather....

    but it was still super stupid

    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
    DeGaulle likes this.
  19. Mario

    Mario Powers


    The question remains what are we to do? Let me give you an example. There is much of AL that is good. You and I agree that Chapter 8 is deplorable. The pastor of the parish at which my fellow deacon candidates meet for classes has made AL available to his parishioners. What was his motivation? I know not. With all the commotion regarding AL reaching even the MSM, maybe he thought it would be best to have his parishioners read it for themselves. Since most Catholics in the pews are not well catechized will that be good or bad? How should I, a non-parishioner, respond? What follow-up does the pastor intend to do? Should I contact him? etc, etc...

    Maybe it would be best to give input to help us become more engaged.

    Safe Under Mary's Mantle!
  20. BrianK

    BrianK Resident Kook, Crank, Curmudgeon - & Mod Staff Member

    Don't be so hard on those who don't hold or maintain your level of scrupulosity regarding talking about this heretic ;-)

    Because, unfortunately, it should be obvious to all that he is indeed a heretic.

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