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The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Too late now for shouting at the man he put in St. Peter's chair. He should be down on his knees asking God's and our forgiveness for what he has done to God's Church and to us. And don't anyone bother telling me that then Cardinal Bergoglio was an unknown quantity to him. They both are Argentinian born of Italian descent. Shame on him. Shame on all of them. May God forgive them because they knew well what they did.
    gracia, Don_D, AED and 1 other person like this.
  2. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    I'm curious though. If this cardinal had a shouting match with PF over this 'reform vs shattering the Church', were the conclave cardinals promised something specific for electing PF?
    Dolours likes this.
  3. AED

    AED Powers

    Could be. And then they got a bait and switch as we say here in the states. Sold a bill of goods.
    Dolours and HeavenlyHosts like this.
  4. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Archangels

    And we also have had some red herrings
    AED likes this.
  5. Don_D

    Don_D Powers

    That Vortex was really sad. It is sorely needed though to see exactly what is taking place inside the Church. This is what is has become. Why? Why has the Church become a shell of itself? I believe that when all is said and done that things are going to change a great deal for the Church when the truth about why is finally exposed. I don't believe that it is simply due to an influx of progressives and relativists. Not for a minute.
    AED, Dolours and padraig like this.
  6. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    We can rely on Pope Benedict (Father Ratzinger) 1969 prophecy to know what lies ahead.

    “The future of the Church can and will issue from those whose roots are deep and who live from the pure fullness of their faith. It will not issue from those who accommodate themselves merely to the passing moment or from those who merely criticize others and assume that they themselves are infallible measuring rods; nor will it issue from those who take the easier road, who sidestep the passion of faith, declaring false and obsolete, tyrannous and legalistic, all that makes demands upon men, that hurts them and compels them to sacrifice themselves. To put this more positively: The future of the Church, once again as always, will be reshaped by saints, by men, that is, whose minds probe deeper than the slogans of the day, who see more than others see, because their lives embrace a wider reality. Unselfishness, which makes men free, is attained only through the patience of small daily acts of self-denial. By this daily passion, which alone reveals to a man in how many ways he is enslaved by his own ego, by this daily passion and by it alone, a man’s eyes are slowly opened. He sees only to the extent that he has lived and suffered. If today we are scarcely able any longer to become aware of God, that is because we find it so easy to evade ourselves, to flee from the depths of our being by means of the narcotic of some pleasure or other. Thus our own interior depths remain closed to us. If it is true that a man can see only with his heart, then how blind we are!

    “How does all this affect the problem we are examining? It means that the big talk of those who prophesy a Church without God and without faith is all empty chatter. We have no need of a Church that celebrates the cult of action in political prayers. It is utterly superfluous. Therefore, it will destroy itself. What will remain is the Church of Jesus Christ, the Church that believes in the God who has become man and promises us life beyond death. The kind of priest who is no more than a social worker can be replaced by the psychotherapist and other specialists; but the priest who is no specialist, who does not stand on the [sidelines], watching the game, giving official advice, but in the name of God places himself at the disposal of man, who is beside them in their sorrows, in their joys, in their hope and in their fear, such a priest will certainly be needed in the future.

    “Let us go a step farther. From the crisis of today the Church of tomorrow will emerge — a Church that has lost much. She will become small and will have to start afresh more or less from the beginning. She will no longer be able to inhabit many of the edifices she built in prosperity. As the number of her adherents diminishes, so it will lose many of her social privileges. In contrast to an earlier age, it will be seen much more as a voluntary society, entered only by free decision. As a small society, it will make much bigger demands on the initiative of her individual members. Undoubtedly it will discover new forms of ministry and will ordain to the priesthood approved Christians who pursue some profession. In many smaller congregations or in self-contained social groups, pastoral care will normally be provided in this fashion. Along-side this, the full-time ministry of the priesthood will be indispensable as formerly. But in all of the changes at which one might guess, the Church will find her essence afresh and with full conviction in that which was always at her center: faith in the triune God, in Jesus Christ, the Son of God made man, in the presence of the Spirit until the end of the world. In faith and prayer she will again recognize the sacraments as the worship of God and not as a subject for liturgical scholarship.

    “The Church will be a more spiritual Church, not presuming upon a political mandate, flirting as little with the Left as with the Right. It will be hard going for the Church, for the process of crystallization and clarification will cost her much valuable energy. It will make her poor and cause her to become the Church of the meek. The process will be all the more arduous, for sectarian narrow-mindedness as well as pompous self-will will have to be shed. One may predict that all of this will take time. The process will be long and wearisome as was the road from the false progressivism on the eve of the French Revolution — when a bishop might be thought smart if he made fun of dogmas and even insinuated that the existence of God was by no means certain — to the renewal of the nineteenth century. But when the trial of this sifting is past, a great power will flow from a more spiritualized and simplified Church. Men in a totally planned world will find themselves unspeakably lonely. If they have completely lost sight of God, they will feel the whole horror of their poverty. Then they will discover the little flock of believers as something wholly new. They will discover it as a hope that is meant for them, an answer for which they have always been searching in secret.

    “And so it seems certain to me that the Church is facing very hard times. The real crisis has scarcely begun. We will have to count on terrific upheavals. But I am equally certain about what will remain at the end: not the Church of the political cult, which is dead already, but the Church of faith. It may well no longer be the dominant social power to the extent that she was until recently; but it will enjoy a fresh blossoming and be seen as man’s home, where he will find life and hope beyond death.
    Praetorian, Dolours, AED and 6 others like this.
  7. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    I had to look up both the phrases ‘bait and switch’ and ‘sold a bill of goods’ :p
    AED, Dolours and Denise P like this.
  8. CrewDog

    CrewDog Principalities

    AED, Don_D and HeavenlyHosts like this.
  9. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Archangels

    Great article
    Thank you, CrewDog
    AED likes this.
  10. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    I agree that we should first and foremost focus on attaining personal holiness.
    But to keep silent in the face of the large majority being led down the broad and easy road to hell would be wrong. We should desire, as our Lord desires, for everyone to find the narrow and hard path to heaven.
    Heidi, Dolours, AED and 2 others like this.
  11. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Great article, I love , 'Crisis'. Love the painting too :)


    All God Asks
    Robert B. Greving

    Ronald Knox once said, “He who travels in the barque of St. Peter had better not look too closely into the engine room.” In case you’ve been living under a rock the last five, ten, fifty years, the barque has been going through some heavy seas. Some would say we’re with Columbus sailing to a new world; others would say the name written on the side reads Titanic. In any event, it is worth pointing out that, no matter how one reads the signs of the times, in one sense, one very real sense, it doesn’t matter.

    I’m not saying we shouldn’t pray for the Church or the pope or the bishops; that we shouldn’t be concerned when priests and prelates and even those higher up say things that, at the very least, make one scratch one’s head. I’m not saying we shouldn’t confront error, call a spade a spade, or turn a blind eye to scandal. I’m only saying that in one sense, one very real sense, we needn’t worry about all that. We needn’t worry about all that because the one thing we do need to worry about isn’t, in a way, affected by all that. That one thing is our own soul.

    This past November, the Church had us reflect on the Last Things, the one last thing we should be concerned about is our own individual holiness. It is easy, and perhaps excusable, to be distraught at what some priest or bishop or “Catholic” politician or “Catholic” school has said or done. I’ll be the first to admit I can get all twisted around with these things. And, as I said, there is some justice in this. We love the Church and to see it in a state of, shall we say, “flux” is worrisome. For many of us, the Church is supposed to be our “rock,” and to many of us it currently feels more like quicksand. But here’s the thing—what of it?

    When we die, and that is the one thing we are to be concerned about, do we really think our Lord will judge us on what a priest or bishop or pope or anyone else said or did? No. He will judge us by the simple criteria: Did you do what I asked you to do? And there’s the end of it. In Jane Austen’s novel Emma, the title character and her friend, Mr. Knightley argue about another character, Frank Churchill, who has seemingly failed in his filial duties. While Emma thinks of every reason to excuse the young man, Mr. Knightley will have none of it. He finally says, “There is one thing, Emma, which a man can always do if he chuses [sic], and that is his duty, not by maneuvering and finessing, but by vigour and resolution.” That should be our attitude.

    Let’s look at it another way: Has there ever been a time when the Church, from pope to parish priest to parishioner in the pew, was perfect? No. St. Paul seemed to spend most of his time straightening out squabbles and heresies. The first five hundred years (at least) of the Church’s history were spent ironing out a creed, and even then, at one time the majority (Arians) didn’t get it right. The Middle Ages saw the pope browbeaten to Avignon for nearly 70 years, and for 25 years after that we had three men claiming to be pope. The Renaissance? Let’s not go there. The 1600s had the Jansenists; the 1700s, the “Enlightenment” and the French Revolution. In the 1800s, the First Vatican Council had to be suspended because Italian troops were knocking at the door. Many point to the “golden age” of the Church before Vatican II. While there may be some truth to that, the question needs to be asked, where and when were the seeds of the flood of the “Spirit of Vatican II” sown if not in that “golden age”? The church—in her members—has never been perfect.

    But there have always been saints. There have always been saints because there have always been those few individuals who didn’t, in this sense, fret about what anyone else was doing or not doing, and instead did what they were supposed to do, however humbly or publicly that might have been. They sought their own sanctity. They did so with the same means that you and I have at our disposal—prayer, the sacraments, God’s grace, and their own will. None of those depend upon the personal holiness of others in the Church. In all those troubled times, there were great saints. I said above we shouldn’t look to the Renaissance, but let’s do that now. The papacy was pumping water from personal scandal and the heresy of Martin Luther. In England, all the bishops but one caved into Henry VIII. Yet Thomas More became a saint and went to the chopping block calm and cracking a joke, not because his parish priest gave great sermons, not because there was a great RCIA program in his diocese, not because of the purity of the clergy or their sound doctrine, but because he led a life of holiness. (And did so while raising a family, being a lawyer, and being involved in politics of all things.) He didn’t whine, he didn’t complain, he didn’t offer excuses. He looked to his own soul.

    “These world crises are crises of saints,” said St. Josemaria Escriva, who wept tears as the Church seemed to be going belly up in the 1960s and ’70s. That is to say, these crises are not primarily crises of popes or bishops or priests, or of universities and theologians and politicians, but rather of you and me being a saint where and how God has called us to be. And today we have an even greater burden in this regard because with the amount of sound doctrine and spiritual advice available in books and other media, we really have no excuse for not knowing our duty and how to do it. How much of our efforts are we outing there? No one can stop us from being saints except ourselves.

    So, by all means correct and admonish, by all means give financial support to those worthy and withhold it from those who are not, but first and foremost, first and last, pray, frequent the sacraments, beg for God’s grace, and do the one thing you can do—be a saint. That’s all God asks.

    Editor’s note: Pictured above is “The Eve of First Communion” painted by Henri Alphonse Laurent-Desrousseaux.
    Tanker and sterph like this.
  12. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I was down in my Parish Church for mass yesterday morning after the night shift. I have not been there for quite a while but the time suits me.

    I found a magazine given away free. It was an English intellectual magazine, Catholic, called, 'The Tablet' . It is very Liberal, very political.

    It is interesting to read the smart Liberal take. To walk on the other side of the tracks so to speak. If I were to some up what is wrong with liberal/Modernism in the Church it is this. The death of the holy/ mystical. They concentrate mainly on politics/ sociology / psychology et all rather than what the Church is really all about. To get souls to heaven.

    A good website like Crisis leads us to heaven. A bad magazine like the Tablet leads us to politics.


  13. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    It is a good article and well worth reading but it tips the scale ever so slightly on the side of "Am I my brother's keeper?" We "keep" our brothers by praying for them but God didn't give us voices to be silent. If we see our brothers walk towards the edge of a cliff should we use our voices to warn them or remain silent and instead focus on keeping ourselves safe?
    Praetorian and SgCatholic like this.
  14. AED

    AED Powers

    Thankyou Fatima for posting BXVI s wonderful words. An excellent reminder. (Gosh I miss him. )
    Praetorian likes this.

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